AZ Game Notes

Powarun

Big Bay Blues fan
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
2,047
Reaction score
355
Location
Madison
Just want to note when was the last time we won the FIRST preseason game? Back in 2009, I don't think the Packers take the first game seriously enough how can we win a super bowl without winning the preseason.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
SF has 3 1st rounders starting on OL, and we have 3 4th rounders. Injuries are no excuse. There are no excuses in NFL. Sherod is a bust, and quite frankly, so is Bulaga.
Bulaga and Sherrod were both 1st rounders. But they've gotten injured.
San Fran's 3 first rounders magically haven't.

I can guarantee you this: If their Iupati and Davis had gotten hurt instead of Sherrod and Bulaga, WE would have beaten them last year and be better than them now.

You are right about the OL talent making a big difference. IT DOES. Can't turn scrubs into studs.

Again, break the legs of Iupati or Anthony Davis, and pop out Staley's hip and tear his ACL..... and let's see how many more holes we see for Frank Gore and Kaepernick.

And give Rodgers his two 1st round OTs healthy........

Can't blame Teddy for those injuries.
 

ExpatPacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
1,813
Reaction score
227
Location
A Galaxy Far, Far Away
Bulaga and Sherrod were both 1st rounders. But they've gotten injured.
San Fran's 3 first rounders magically haven't.

I can guarantee you this: If their Iupati and Davis had gotten hurt instead of Sherrod and Bulaga, WE would have beaten them last year and be better than them now.

You are right about the OL talent making a big difference. IT DOES. Can't turn scrubs into studs.

Again, break the legs of Iupati or Anthony Davis, and pop out Staley's hip and tear his ACL..... and let's see how many more holes we see for Frank Gore and Kaepernick.

And give Rodgers his two 1st round OTs healthy........

Can't blame Teddy for those injuries.

I know you can't blame TT, but. . .

GB 1st rounders injured:

Brian Bulaga
Derek Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones.

There is something wrong here. I don't know what it is, but there is something wrong. It's not just luck. There's something. . . .
 
OP
OP
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
The idea was to have Cobb run some read-option in practice, non-contact, starting at half-speed.

The problem was not tackling Kaepernick, or more correctly, we never got to that part. Scheme, positioning, assignments need to be worked on first.
 

Powarun

Big Bay Blues fan
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
2,047
Reaction score
355
Location
Madison
I know you can't blame TT, but. . .

GB 1st rounders injured:

Brian Bulaga
Derek Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones.

There is something wrong here. I don't know what it is, but there is something wrong. It's not just luck. There's something. . . .
A higher power has to handicap the Packers some how 'cause if (insert specific Higher Power here: God, Jesus, Other teams prayers, Ghost of Lombardi etc) didn't it wouldn't be a fair game. :p
 
OP
OP
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I know you can't blame TT, but. . .

GB 1st rounders injured:

Brian Bulaga
Derek Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones.

There is something wrong here. I don't know what it is, but there is something wrong. It's not just luck. There's something. . . .

You might as well throw in Justin Harrell and second rounders Worthy and Neal.
 

Einstein McFly

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
441
Reaction score
31
LOL, what's the matter with people? It's the first preseason game for christsake. It means EXACTLY nothing in terms of how good the team will be. Why is it that so many people seem to be DYING to whine and complain about anything and everything?

Funny you should say that because I typed the following in that last post then thought better of it:

"...fire Capers, switch to a 4-3 and draft Clowney."

I thought better of it because (1) I'm not a Capers hater and would like nothing more than to see him turn the corner this year, (2) assuming Capers does turn the corner, Clowney is not a good fit for 3-4; he's a 4-3 DE and (3) what the heck do you do with Matthews in a 4-3.

You just don't take a talent like Clowney and hope you can convert him to 3-4 OLB or slap 20 lbs. on him for 3-4 DE. He's a hand in the dirt guy; I see no highlight clips where he's standing up.

Does anyone actually think that without Rodgers we're THE worst team in the NFL? Really? Come on people. Also, would you really rather have Cowney, a guy who looks awesome but hasn't shown it in the bigs for a guy who has make the pro bowl every single year of his career? There are a lot of really hyped guys who looked like men among boys in college who did exactly nothing in the pros. I'm not saying Clowney will be a Gholston-like bust, but I'd take a proven monster like CM3 over a roll of the dice.


J
Running game still looks like a joke. No one can run block on this team. It isnt going to change. Coach yelling at you to run block better and try harder isnt going to work in the NFL. You cant grind out run blocking. Its not a matter of effort, its comes down to talent level.

You guys honestly think TJ Lang and Don Barclay, or Newhouse can become solid run blockers in the NFL? How are they ever going to beat guys like Suh, Ngata, or Peppers. They dont have the physical tools to do so. Good coaching cant turns scrubs into studs. Overachievers dont get better, and are team is full of them. SF has 3 1st rounders starting on OL, and we have 3 4th rounders. Injuries are no excuse. There are no excuses in NFL. Sherod is a bust, and quite frankly, so is Bulaga.

I couldnt believe how few snaps Bahktiari got? He should of taken as many snaps are Jolly at least. You cant hold out a rookie in pre season because youre worried he will get hurt. If player cant last through pre season, how can you count on them to finish regular season?

McCarthy talks a tough game, but dude doesnt back it up. He says the same thing every year since 2010, we're going to get better at run game, its our main focus. I don't blame him though, the real problem is Ted.

Sad thing is without Rodgers arm, our running game would be dead last in NFL. Both safeties would be directly on LoS. It would be worse than when Tebow is in there.

Every lineman on the team was a college LT because LTs are the best PASS blockers on the team. This is a pass first league and TT knows it and we win because of it. A running game would be nice and would help set up our passing game, but if it's between taking a guy who's a great pass blocker and lousy run blocker versus a guy who's a great run blocker and a mediocre pass blocker, TT will take the former every time and that's the right thing to do unless you're building some gimmick team like the vikings.


There had better be a more polished team than this. The oline and lack of running game is concerning.

The #1 offense went right down the field easily. Do people really think that Harrell would have looked as bad with the #1 line blocking for him the whole time? Do you really think that the inability for a line to run block when every other guy on the line will be out of the NFL in a month? Do you really think that if the #1s and Rogers move the ball that well series after series that the run game wouldn't have opened up?

Get a grip people.
 

7thFloorRA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
2,573
Reaction score
331
Location
Grafton, WI
The only legitimate complaint about the game is that Harrell showed once again that he is never going to be the guy. I realize MM wants him to succeed but its just not going to happen. Next man up.

House had about as bad of a game as you can have but he has shown he is better than that in his previous yet limited work.

Other than that its just a pre season game with weird match ups and line ups to get everyone some exposure. The defense is probably basic and vanilla so its hard to really gauge anything....especially changes. No reason to show their cards yet if they did in fact mix some stuff up. That probably explains some of the soft spots in the coverage that looked similar to last season.

It was just hard to watch the offense and get a feel for how some of the guys trying to make the roster are doing when the guy leading the offense is garbage. I liked what I saw from Vince but he is not going to help the other guys out because he doesn't know all the plays.
 

HyponGrey

Caseus Locutus Est
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
221
Location
South Jersey
Assuming Capers does turn the corner, Clowney is not a good fit for 3-4; he's a 4-3 DE and (3) what the heck do you do with Matthews in a 4-3.

You just don't take a talent like Clowney and hope you can convert him to 3-4 OLB or slap 20 lbs. on him for 3-4 DE. He's a hand in the dirt guy; I see no highlight clips where he's standing up.
So Clowney is essentially a gadget player in our system. (I said the same thing about Perry, would much rather have Clowney)
Capers doesn't do hybrid. He does gadgets and disguises.
Problem solved.;)

You guys honestly think TJ Lang and Don Barclay, or Newhouse can become solid run blockers in the NFL? How are they ever going to beat guys like Suh, Ngata, or Peppers. They dont have the physical tools to do so. Good coaching cant turns scrubs into studs. Overachievers dont get better, and our team is full of them. SF has 3 1st rounders starting on OL, and we have 3 4th rounders. Injuries are no excuse. There are no excuses in NFL. Sherrod is a bust, and quite frankly, so is Bulaga.
Lang and Barclay yes, Newhouse no. Lang has VERY heavy hands and solid leverage, and Barclay is already a solid run blocker who projects to his highest ceiling at Guard. Newhouse just doesn't have the right mindset. "Overachievers" can get better if they learn the nuances of their position and perfect their technique, especially if they have good instincts. I'd take our 5th rounder Sitton over any of the SF 1st rounders except maybe Staley. By Sherrod's standards Mike Flanagan was a bust too. Here's to hoping for a similar outcome. BTW I fixed your spelling issues.
 

Forget Favre

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
9,115
Reaction score
1,807
MM was quoted in your link on Harrell, "“I thought he did an excellent job of keeping us in clean plays. The productivity and sustaining drives is something we have to look at,” McCarthy said.

That means he's running our offense as intended, without actually succeeding at it. So, as I said, I'd rather see us lose running our offense than "broken play on 2". Winning and losing with this team has a clear dividing line...making the playoffs vs. not. None of these guys are the guy to get us on the right side of the equation.
Young took care of the ball.
The other back up QB(s) didn't which led to points for the Cards.
You don't have to have faith in Young, but I do.
 

PackFanNChiTown

Bear Fan's Bane
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
739
Reaction score
108
Location
Plainfield, IL
So...you're saying you don't see us as being any different than 85% of the rest of the NFL in that regard?
Exactly.

Let's face it though, for all TT's success, his area where he's lacked the most has been the O-line and backup QB. Yes Flynn was good, but after he left TT entrusted the team to rookies who frankly have no business being a #2.
 

easyk83

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
280
Granted, I didn't watch much of the game. However, I get the feeling that some of you guys need to relax. Do any of you remember the curb stomping GB put on the Cardinals back in the pre-season of 2009? Green Bay was coming off a losing season and was looking to make a statement while the Cards were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. Friday's game looked a little similar, AZ wanted to make a statement game with a new quarterback and a new Defense. Personally I'm surprised that GB held up as well as it did despite only playing it's key starters the first couple of drives. The First String Offense moved the ball well when on the field, the first string O-line kept Aaron clean and the first string defense stopped AZ's starters in their first 2 drives. Personally I'm of the impression that after the second drive Clay Matthews and a few other starters were taken out, is this correct?

My takeaways from what I've heard.

1) Bakthiari played well against some top notch competition, this is great news not only for this year but for the future, you can never have too many good LTs.

2) Don Barclay made a strong case for starting, he might not have much upside but we could use another +run blocker. It's tough to pass protect when you can't run and it's tough to run when you have two tackles who are mediocre in the run department. Newhouse is a better player than given credit for and a very good backup to both tackle positions.

3) Nick Perry played well, according to JS beat staff Perry had 4 plus plays out of 12 snaps. In the limited action I saw he had some good push. From this alone he should provide a boost to the Defense, it would have been nice having someone this strong and stout on the outside as opposed to Erik the gaping hole Walden in our game against Frisco. We'll see if he ever develops the confidence to aggressively attack the outside and get low around the corner. Supposedly he has can really bend and we all know he's fast and explosive. If he develops a good jet rush to go with his bull rush, and the head to know when to use which, he'll be a pro bowler in no time.

Based off these three factors I'm very encouraged pending Datone Jones' health. Heck I'm encouraged even if Jones is lost for an extended period of time, which I believe is doubtful.
 

PackFanNChiTown

Bear Fan's Bane
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
739
Reaction score
108
Location
Plainfield, IL
We'll know more after game two, but personally I'm concerned over the rash of injuries (yet again), and the poor tackling. As far as everything else I believe Mike will get them into shape and get them to start playing better.
 
OP
OP
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Does anyone actually think that without Rodgers we're THE worst team in the NFL? Really?

Could be. For example, I didn't see a lot to differentiate last season's 5-11 Arizona team from our own, outside the QB position. In fact, I think I'd trade 52 of our players for 52 or theirs, straight up.

AZ had an awful QB committee and injuries at TB. Without Rodgers, we'd have an awful QB committee and we've seen our first team O-Line the last couple of years, and in this 1st. preseason game, struggle to create creases.

"Worst" would be a stretch. Jacksonville is a mess with Gabbert.
 

Luca

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
265
Reaction score
29
Location
Rotterdam, Netherlands
I just saw the ProFootballFocus grades for the game, and I was really surprised by their grade for Baktiari. They graded him -0.8 (1.3 pass, -2,4 run). I thought Baktiari was one of the bright spots in the game. Thoughts?

Other grades:

Top 5 offense: Lane Taylor +2.6, Barclay +1.9, Rodgers, +1,3 Mulligan +1.2, Jones, EDS and Walker +0.8
Worst: Alex Green -1.1, Patrick Lewis -0.9, Vince Young -0.9
Notable: Alex Gilett -0.5 (thought he played a nice game)

Top 5 on defense: Mike Daniels +3.7, Jolly and Francois +2. Perry and Bush 1.4
Worst: Davon House, -3.2, Dezman Mozes -1,
Notable: Jarvis Reed +1.2, Mulumba +0.7 and Donte Savage +0.7 (apparently they like our young undrafted linebackers), also Fulton -0.3 (+1.6 against run, -1.9 coverage)

Basically they front 7 graded well, but the secondary scored bad (minus Bush). Makes sense.

I am not sure whether I "agree" with all grades, as said some surprised me. But it might food for thought (or food for discussion).
 
D

Dan115

Guest
Positives from last night: As far as I know, no one actually died, only several careers were placed on life support. That “game” also helped coaches making cuts: When asked by a player why he didn’t make it, the coach can simply refer to his performance last night.

All semi-kidding aside, that was about as ugly an exhibition of football as a Packers fan could dread. Particularly after the long wait for “real football”. And particularly after we were told this was a team with renewed focus wanting to begin to change its image as ‘soft’. It’s awfully early for a wake-up call but one was delivered non-the-less.

There was plenty of disappointment to go around but I was particularly disappointed in the lack of pressure by the defense early in the game. And I was disappointed in whoever that was wearing House’s jersey last night. That certainly wasn’t the player we watched last preseason.

The best part of the game IMO was the play of Bakhtiari. No small thing but it seems like it considering the cluster schtoop that was the rest of the game. One more positive: I don't see anyone here in full panic mode.


One more positive: I don't see anyone here in full panic mode.
I left the country.
 
OP
OP
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I just saw the ProFootballFocus grades for the game, and I was really surprised by their grade for Baktiari. They graded him -0.8 (1.3 pass, -2,4 run). I thought Baktiari was one of the bright spots in the game. Thoughts?

Other grades:

Top 5 offense: Lane Taylor +2.6, Barclay +1.9, Rodgers, +1,3 Mulligan +1.2, Jones, EDS and Walker +0.8
Worst: Alex Green -1.1, Patrick Lewis -0.9, Vince Young -0.9
Notable: Alex Gilett -0.5 (thought he played a nice game)

Top 5 on defense: Mike Daniels +3.7, Jolly and Francois +2. Perry and Bush 1.4
Worst: Davon House, -3.2, Dezman Mozes -1,
Notable: Jarvis Reed +1.2, Mulumba +0.7 and Donte Savage +0.7 (apparently they like our young undrafted linebackers), also Fulton -0.3 (+1.6 against run, -1.9 coverage)

Basically they front 7 graded well, but the secondary scored bad (minus Bush). Makes sense.

I am not sure whether I "agree" with all grades, as said some surprised me. But it might food for thought (or food for discussion).

I wonder how they grade a play like McMillan's getting beat like a rug deep in the first possession where the ball was overthrown? It it no harm, no foul...or a negative?

A few notes:

I agree with some grades, disagree with others. Bakhtiari's pass grade looks about right..he looked solid out there. He's a fundamentally sound football player who maintains focus...we can't say the same about Newhouse. A minus on run blocking seems fair too though that number seems a bit stiff. Keep in mind that's not the main reason he's over there. Besides, nobody on the first string was very effective run blocking...Starks was on his own. He's a rookie...the rest of the preseason will help.

A grade like Lane Taylor's has to be taken with a grain of salt...by the time he got out there he was working against second and third stringers.

I agree that Jolly, Francois and Daniels had good games, as noted in post #1. Perry looked solid against run; the book is open as to whether he'll ever be kind of pass rusher who warrants a first round pick.

It's interesting that Harrell or Coleman must have graded better than Young's -0.9 if your numbers are correct, or that Young graded that eye. That doesn't pass the eye test.

The front 7 was very solid against the run throughout the roster, and the second team was applying decent pressure. The first team's pass pressure left something to be desired. But that's preseason...first stringers who are assured in their jobs might be inclined to make business decisions at this stage.
 

Luca

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
265
Reaction score
29
Location
Rotterdam, Netherlands
I wonder how they grade a play like McMillan's getting beat like a rug deep in the first possession where the ball was overthrown? It it no harm, no foul...or a negative?

McMillan had a -0,6 grade. -0.4 against the run, -0.2 for coverage

It's interesting that Harrell or Coleman must have graded better than Young's -0.9 if your numbers are correct, or that Young graded that eye. That doesn't pass the eye test.

I just checked Vince Young had -1.1 (was 0,9, they probably corrected one play or something), Colemann -0,8, Harell -0,5.

I agree that Jolly, Francois and Daniels had good games, as noted in post #1. Perry looked solid against run; the book is open as to whether he'll ever be kind of pass rusher who warrants a first round pick.

Perry had 1.4 run defense grade and a 0 pass rush and coverage grade.

The front 7 was very solid against the run throughout the roster, and the second team was applying decent pressure. The first team's pass pressure left something to be desired. But that's preseason...first stringers who are assured in their jobs might be inclined to make business decisions at this stage
You are correct 9 guys scored over +1 versus the run, only one guy (Daniels, +1.5) scored over +1 rushing the passer, and one guy scored over 1 for coverage (Bush, +1.2).

These grades are indeed just grades for one game. An as you pointed out many guys played just against second and third stringers so they might have scored better grades, than they would have scored versus first stringers. Moreover, the fact that the Arizona O-line isn't that great might have helped the grades of the defense. The fact that our O-line failed to create holes, might have hurt th RB grades. As pointed in another forum these grades are not perfect. They give however some impression of who played well, and who did not play well.

But to be honest I still view Bakhtiari as the bright spot of the game. And it seems like guys like Bob McGinn, Tom Silverstein and Vic Ketchman like him as well. Actually Zach Kruse made a play by play breakdown of Bakhtiari's play, and he was very positive.
 

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,766
Reaction score
896
I just saw the ProFootballFocus grades for the game, and I was really surprised by their grade for Baktiari. They graded him -0.8 (1.3 pass, -2,4 run). I thought Baktiari was one of the bright spots in the game. Thoughts?

Other grades:

Top 5 offense: Lane Taylor +2.6, Barclay +1.9, Rodgers, +1,3 Mulligan +1.2, Jones, EDS and Walker +0.8
Worst: Alex Green -1.1, Patrick Lewis -0.9, Vince Young -0.9
Notable: Alex Gilett -0.5 (thought he played a nice game)

Top 5 on defense: Mike Daniels +3.7, Jolly and Francois +2. Perry and Bush 1.4
Worst: Davon House, -3.2, Dezman Mozes -1,
Notable: Jarvis Reed +1.2, Mulumba +0.7 and Donte Savage +0.7 (apparently they like our young undrafted linebackers), also Fulton -0.3 (+1.6 against run, -1.9 coverage)

Basically they front 7 graded well, but the secondary scored bad (minus Bush). Makes sense.

I am not sure whether I "agree" with all grades, as said some surprised me. But it might food for thought (or food for discussion).



I think most are evaluating Baktiari from a pass blocking perspective and the fact that he was tied for the highest rating in pass blocking is good. Generally speaking the left tackle isn't really a dominating run blocker in most offenses.
 

jaybadger82

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
837
Reaction score
83
I agree with some grades, disagree with others. Bakhtiari's pass grade looks about right..he looked solid out there. He's a fundamentally sound football player who maintains focus...we can't say the same about Newhouse. A minus on run blocking seems fair too though that number seems a bit stiff. Keep in mind that's not the main reason he's over there. Besides, nobody on the first string was very effective run blocking...Starks was on his own.

But to be honest I still view Bakhtiari as the bright spot of the game. And it seems like guys like Bob McGinn, Tom Silverstein and Vic Ketchman like him as well. Actually Zach Kruse made a play by play breakdown of Bakhtiari's play, and he was very positive.

I think most are evaluating Baktiari from a pass blocking perspective and the fact that he was tied for the highest rating in pass blocking is good. Generally speaking the left tackle isn't really a dominating run blocker in most offenses.

Agreed. I heard that Bakh played mistake-free football outside of a single missed block on one of our run plays.

With LTs, it seems like the pass blocking score should be weighted more toward the final grade since the LT's primary responsibility is to keep his QB upright and the NFL has become such a passing league...
 

HyponGrey

Caseus Locutus Est
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
221
Location
South Jersey
Did anybody else notice that Capers seemed to be purposely calling to put the DB's in REALLY tough spots?
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top