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And Packer fans are classless?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    When TT was brought in to to rebuild the franchise ... - No matter how you look at it ... Even considering TT's acclaimed talent to evaluate prospects ... There can be little doubt that the moves made during his (TT's tenure so far) made little sense, in terms of actually wanting Favre to remain a Packer ...

    Why ? - These are my thoughts ...

    When you are going to almost re-arrange most of the team without acquiring reinforcements via the free agency (let's face it ... it's just not possible to reinforce a team solely through the draft and then expect that team to succeed and making a deep play off run ... - it can happen, and did in 2007 with the 13-3 ... but that is lucky punch so to speak ...), it was apparent that Favre wasn't supposed to the long term solution ... - The drafting of Rodgers made that abundantly apparent ...

    If TT is such an esteemed overall great evaluater and business man as most say he is (and in many ways he is, I'll admit that ...) - It makes no sense from a business perspective to keep a quarterback, that isn't going to be the "future" solution ... - At that point, when you are actually rebuilding the team already, it would have made *MORE* sense to actually let Favre know at that time, that the Packers then, was not meant to be a serious play-off contender and that it was the organisations ambition to rebuild entirely, around Rodgers with a young line in all 3 phases of the team ... - Most likely ... most prudent business people would have informed Favre at this point that his (Favre's) main job now would be to help transition Rodgers into a starting quarterback role ... - Because that is why so many young players was brought in ...

    The prudent business decision at that time *would* have been to clearly inform Favre and the other veterans on that team about this decision and see whether or not those players would accept that or wanted out ...

    - Yet for some reasons most (fans) were still under the belief that Favre was still the leader around which the team should "revolve" ... - And probably also why Favre came back to play for the Packers - even after having a 4-12 season ...

    The same thing happened the following year ... That ended 8-8 ...

    Again, alot of actions were taking in order to ensure that Favre would return for yet another season under center at the Packers ... - Even accomodating him in terms of off-season training programme ... - From a business perspective - again - that is not how you do it, when you don't have any intentions of actually wanting to make a run for it, with the veterans that you still have on that team ... - Unless you just don't want to get into a conflict ...

    The Packers management, including TT and at this point now also McCarthy didn't play "openly" ... - Most likely they told Favre what he (Favre) wanted to hear ... - That Favre was wanted (when in fact he wasn't really), and that they would try to help him and the other veterans get a deep play off run going ...

    In many ways ... TT, Murphy and McCarthy actually acted as the "catalyst" in padding Favre's ego ... much more so to the point where we are today ...

    Hindsight is always 20/20 ... - However, taking into account past history since TT took over ... alot of the "waffling" and "indecision" actually makes alot of sense - when considering this ... - I for one, do not believe that Favre would have been willing to return to the Packers, had TT made his intentions abundantly clear from the start ... - Something any "good" Business man would do ... and given TT's credentials and references ... I don't understand why this could get to where it has come today ...

    However TT's main problem here was (still is) the popularity Favre had in Green Bay and among the fans, not to mention the players ...

    - Had TT done the right thing (from a business perspective) when he started, TT would probably have been lynched ... by the fans, and probably also by the management ... - So as most other bright businessmen would do, he (TT) had to go about this in another way ... accomodating the fans as well as the management ...

    For TT there was no other course of action really ... He was already put in a tough spot from the start ...

    In 2008 Favre retired and coming off a 13-3 season, with having lost the NFCC to the Giants, and after being voted NFL Exec of the year, as well as McCarthy runner up for the coach of the year award, as well as both getting contract extensions - TT was standing "strong" in the organisation ... - and at this point looked like a genious, just coming off a 13-3 season with the youngest team in the NFL ...

    TT is an intelligent man ... And I for one, do not believe that he was surprised by Favre's "waffling" and "indecision" about retirement ... - However, unlike the previous 2 years, now TT had a significant "boost" and "position" in the organisation ... - What he (probably) couldn't have done the previous 2 years, he had a greater chance at doing now ... - Namely "pressure" Favre into making a decision earlier than what had been expected of Favre in the previous 2 years off seasons ...

    I think TT knew well before, what Favre's answer would be ...

    Favre *did* also handle this situation bad, however, it shouldn't come as a surprise really, being as emotional as Favre is and had been for several years prior ...

    No matter what Favre did (just like TT) - it was a no-win situation ... And being the competitor as he (Favre) also is ... being relegated to 2nd string was rather devastating for his (Favre's) ego, when clearly, he *KNEW* he could still play at a very high level ... Only Favre found himself in a team, whose management wasn't willing to help him (Favre) nor the other veterans on that team, in terms of building a team that could go all the way and win the Super Bowl ...

    It shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone that Favre regretted his retirement ...

    When all is said and done ... TT did make the right move, however ... From a business perspective ... This "transition" was handled JUST as badly from the management as it was from Favre ... - As a "leader" and especially as a GM ... You are paid and expected to make those confrontations, when needed ... TT failed to take that confrontation when he *should* have made it ... Because of the same fans, who are now regarding Favre as a "traitor" ...

    In the end ... I believe that the Management and TT *should* have respected Favre (and the other veterans as well) alot more ... from the start and just openly should have explained what their long term plans were about to be, instead of padding Favre's ego in 2006, 2007 and 2008 ... - Because this situation was already in the "cards" when TT was brought in to begin with ...

    Again ... Bringing in TT was (probably) a good move, but from a business perspective ... TT and the management did NOT handle this well from the start ...
     
  2. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    That's quite a lengthy post
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sorry you spent all that time posting that...Because that is your opinion..But it is flawed when you read Andrew Brandts articles...

    Ted and Mike did not boost Bretts ego in the least..In fact I think they did the opposite and that is what got him ticked..That comes right from Andrew Brandts columns...

    They didnt beg Brett to come back when that is what he wanted...that is not my opinion that comes right from the closest insider there is writing about this.
     
  4. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    Quientus..excellent post.

    But don't bother because you're probably going to get a...

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz or Atttacked by TT Sycophants because you didn't paint Favre as the mustached villain tying the Packers to the train and then exploding the dynamite.

    You see. These Packer fans who "booed" don't want to know the truth. They want a villain to hate. And Ted Thompson gave them a villain in Favre by playing the innocent victim here in this little morality play.

    That's the part that cracks me up.

    Alot of you people here are portraying Ol' Polar Bear as the innocent victime that was wronged by the big bad Favre....!!:rotfl:
     
  5. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    Yeah..LT..?

    Well, considering the outcome the other day. They should have kissed Brett's *** six ways til' Sunday because they were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...!!
     
  6. OneHotelFoxtrot

    OneHotelFoxtrot Cheesehead

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    My word, I cannot wait til all this talk dies down at least a little (maybe 20 years from now?)
     
  7. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    Did you eat lead paint chips as a kid?
     
  8. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Actually ... even when reading Brandts columns ... that is probably likely what happened ...

    So what you are saying that in 2006 and 2007 TT and the management actually already tried to get Favre to decide just as early ? - Yet they still accomodated Favre, and even went as far as planning a different offseason programme for him ? ... That to me doesn't sound like a management that is "about" to move on ... - Quite the contrary ... It more looks like a management trying to accomodate one of their best players ...


    Now imagine this scenario ... - which by the looks of it could actually become true; Favre returning for - yet - another season as a Viking ...

    The "horror" scenario here would be that the Vikings make a deep play off run this season ... and Favre returning next season (which at this point, could be a very real possibility) ...

    TT was brought in, in 2005 ... - With the clear intent of totally rebuilding the team ...

    *IF* the Packers do not make the play offs (again) this season ... and continues to field only an above average team next season ... and *IF* the Vikings is able to retain Favre for another season ... and continue to play well ... Then the Management have got to ask the enevitable question:

    Was TT right in "moving" on at that time in 2007 ? Because if what I postulated above comes true ... and the Packers don't make the play offs next season ... - Then the answer from both a fans as well as a purely business perspective would have to be a resounding "No" ...
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    No need for that at all..

    I thought I was civil in my arguments, then you have to come here and spew your crap

    Knock it off
     
  10. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    The "dilemma" here is ... that from both a sports perspective as well as a purely business perspective ... The time for success is starting to wind down for the current management ... - Not to mention Rodgers ...

    Key question here is ... *When* is this new rebuilt Packers team and TT "expected" to deliver ?

    Going back from 2005 till now ... - There is still "time" in my opinion, but results should be exptected to show when ? ... - 5 years later ? 6 years later ? 10 years later ? ...

    Untill that happens ... There will always be this "What If" shadow lingering ... and especially on Rodgers ... and so far ... Rodgers doesn't seem to cope all too well when there is a huge pressure on him ... - Most people can only go "so long" before buckling under pressure ... and one has to wonder, if this is healthy for Rodgers in the long run ...
     
  11. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    This is what I don't get. People are so concerned over possibly having a few seasons where the Pack don't make the playoffs, but consider the scenario where we keep Favre which means that we lose Rodgers. So once Favre retires we are sans a Franchise QB and we sign some journeyman QB, say Daunte Culpepper. Is that really a better situation?
     
  12. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    That's not the point here really ... - If the above makes you wonder, I have got to ask you this:

    Why were Head Coaches, Mike Holmgren fired ? - Why was Mike Sherman ?

    Why was Mike Sherman fired ? - He also took over as GM in 2001 and had winning seasons untill 2005 where the Packers ended 4-12 ...

    Mike Sherman was fired after only 4 seasons (as a GM) ... and only one single losing season ... - Not to mention the fact that most of the core of the 2007 team was brought in by him ... - and NOT by Ted Thomson ...

    Mike Sherman had 5 consecutive winning seasons ... 3 consecutive divisional titles, not to mention 4 consecutive play off runs, a feat only the Eagles have matched ...

    Yet despite only a single (horrible) losing season, while actually rebuilding ... Mike Sherman was fired ...

    If the above is your reasoning ... then you have actually already answered your own question ...
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    where did I say they were ready to move on?

    That stuff comes from the Brett fans...

    I said that the way Ted has operated when Brett was here is no different then what he does now..

    So I do not know how that is pushing him out..

    If you read the time line I posted and if the added parts in that time line did come from Brett, he never disputed the fact that Mike was willing to lessen the work load for him..
     
  14. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    I'm sorry but what are you getting at?
     
  15. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Is he basically saying that TT should be fired due to him not performing as well as Sherman did in his tenure in GB?
     
  16. mike bat

    mike bat Cheesehead

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    dont really matter what any of us say ... Brett was right and he proved it twice .... bottom line in football is that score board at the end of the game ... Brett won bolth the battle and the war ... we just looked stupid out there ... TT and MM havent proven anything other than they can take a good playoff team and runn it through the mudd .. i know i could be bias ,, due to the fact i believe brett wanted to play for the pack ,, and i dont care WHO WROTE WHAT ,, thats what i believe ... unless brett comes out years later and says he never had any plans of returning a packer ,, i believe he really wanted to play for the pack ... now i can put what i have thought all along aside ... because now it has been proven twice ,,, Brett pawns the green bay packers NOOBS twice ... TT and MM run Green Bay in the mudd ... these are the facts my friends ... so yea
     
  17. FanOfTheGame

    FanOfTheGame Cheesehead

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    I think I'm missing something here. I don't see the connection.

    To want it both ways those who think that booing Favre is classless would also have to think that those comments are not classless. Those comments are classless. Did the person who made those classless comments say booing Favre is classless? Now that would be wanting it both ways. Did somebody here say those comments are not classless but booing Favre is classless? That might be wanting it both ways. Or are you trying to say that Favre himself is classless because a person very close to him made classless statements, therefore those who say that booing Favre is classless want it both ways?
     
  18. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The person who made those comments said that booing Favre is classless... Actually, a lot of people in that forum made that statement.
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yup right on
     
  20. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    So I don't get it. Who made the comments? Was I right? Was it Bob Saget?
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I mentioned it :)
     
  22. bad93ex

    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    As paying customers for a football game you can boo whoever you like.Period.
     
  23. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah... I disagree with that... I just think if you're a fan of your team, why would you do something to harm your team? Booing after a game is fine, IMHO, but during... It won't help.
     
  24. FanOfTheGame

    FanOfTheGame Cheesehead

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    Okay, thanks for clarifying. I get the connection now.
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    It's exactly like you said. It goes both ways. Need to have the same criteria...
     

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