Abbrederis?

[red4tribe]

So Abbrederis has a nice game against Oakland, and then one drop against Arizona, and we never see him again? He didn't get a single target last night, and I don't know if I even remember seeing him on the field. Is he in McCarthy's doghouse? It seems like he has run solid routes when he's been on the field, and has made some nice plays at several points. At this time, he cannot possibly be a downgrade from Davante, the king of drops. Abbrederis has a little bit more speed than the other receivers too which could maybe slightly open up the passing game. Given that Rodgers specifically mentioned he wanted Abbrederis on the field more after the Oakland game I just don't get it. I don't see what bad can happen from playing him. It's not like the offense is doing anything now anyway.

 

[C-Lee]

Yeah, this had me very confused last night. He seems to actually get open.....

 

[Mondio]

I saw him in on a PR after Hyde went out briefly. I don't recall a single offensive snap for him. I thought for sure he'd get more opportunities going forward, i guess not. At this point i wouldn't be surprised to see him and Janis gone next year if neither one can convince the coaches by this point that they need to be on the field. For what it's worth, Adams caught all his targets yesterday I think and showed some fight on the field. It was nice to see, and more in line of what I expected out of him all year. That doesn't negate the disappointment this year has been for him at all, but maybe he's moving forward? or maybe he was just lucky for a game. it's not like he set the world on fire.

 

[Un4GivN]

So Abbrederis has a nice game against Oakland, and then one drop against Arizona, and we never see him again? He didn't get a single target last night, and I don't know if I even remember seeing him on the field. Is he in McCarthy's doghouse? It seems like he has run solid routes when he's been on the field, and has made some nice plays at several points. At this time, he cannot possibly be a downgrade from Davante, the king of drops. Abbrederis has a little bit more speed than the other receivers too which could maybe slightly open up the passing game. Given that Rodgers specifically mentioned he wanted Abbrederis on the field more after the Oakland game I just don't get it. I don't see what bad can happen from playing him. It's not like the offense is doing anything now anyway.

He can be a downgrade from Adams, and if he was better he would be playing. You judge based off of a hand full of receptions throughout the year. Where they base it off of 40 hours of work every week. Adams played better last night and it was good to see.

This Adams drop thing needs to quit.... He has a much lower drop rate than Jordy did at this point in his career. The stats are in the Adams thread down a little bit.

If you want to bring up his route running (or lack there of), and effort Im all for it. Abbrederis does seem to run harder. But please stop with the damn drop thing, it's not even a worthwhile criticism.

He needs to get open more, and Rodgers needs to build that faith with him. But he could keep this drop rate forever and I would be happy.

 

[TJV]

I agree with the OP. Even though Adams had a pretty good game I too was surprised Abbrederis didn't get snaps from scrimmage. On the few occasions he's been in he seems to run better routes and get open more than Adams and seems to get more separation than Jones.

He can be a downgrade from Adams, and if he was better he would be playing. You judge based off of a hand full of receptions throughout the year. Where they base it off of 40 hours of work every week. Adams played better last night and it was good to see.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion we should never criticize the number of snaps any player gets - or doesn't get because we can't watch practice or sit in on meetings.

If you want to bring up his route running (or lack there of), and effort Im all for it. Abbrederis does seem to run harder.

This can't be true. After all you're basing this off of a hand full of receptions throughout the year. Where they base it off of 40 hours of work every week. But if you really think it is true, you must have been scratching your head about a WR who runs better routes and runs harder than Adams not getting any snaps from scrimmage last night.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally, I think MM decided to go "all in" with Jones, Cobb and Adams instead of constantly juggling and subbing guys in. So far it has shown some mixed results. Nobody is worried about Janis not running routes or Abby getting hurt. Also, Adams......the movable part in all this, has made some catches.

 

[Mondio]

maybe it was just the game plan to run? it was pretty successful the first time around and this time we had a better run blocking LT, though it's obvious his pass blocking isn't LT status, and he just wasn't included in the game plan? Saw a lot of 2 TE and 2RB's sets last night.

considering we can't seem to make the run work with any consistency, maybe we put Abbrederis out there and try and 4 and 5 WR set. What the heck, it's not as if this offense is going to take us anywhere.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What the heck, it's not as if this offense is going to take us anywhere.

What offense?

 

[Mondio]

What offense?

those guys that take the field after our defense goes off. I think they're called the "offense", but i'm not exactly sure what they're supposed to be doing?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

those guys that take the field after our defense goes off. I think they're called the "offense", but i'm not exactly sure what they're supposed to be doing?

Is that the group that helps the other teams defense score? I think I am finally catching on to this game of football!!

But yes, this year......they have been very "offensive" for the most part.

 

[Mondio]

yeah, I think it's their job to score points, but for a long time I thought they were supposed to score points for our team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't know the stats for the year, but I know there have been 3 fumble touchdowns in the last two weeks and that just has to stop. Hard to fault Rodgers on 2 of them but ouch! Picks in the end zone are equally as costly and need to stop as well.

 

[Un4GivN]

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion we should never criticize the number of snaps any player gets - or doesn't get because we can't watch practice or sit in on meetings. This can't be true. After all you're basing this off of a hand full of receptions throughout the year. Where they base it off of 40 hours of work every week.

Lol you are probably right, we shouldn't... But we do, that's what fans do. I think I just see the talent in Adams at times. Just hasn't put it all together yet. Honest question does anyone feel Abbrederis is really a solution on the outside? I could see him doing a better job inside than out.

But if you really think it is true, you must have been scratching your head about a WR who runs better routes and runs harder than Adams not getting any snaps from scrimmage last night.

And I do agree it was surprising not to see him more. But I guess the early plan was to run 2 TE so maybe they didn't have much in place for him?

I still truly believe Adams will get better. That he has more natural talent and a higher "ceiling" than Abbrederis. Though sometimes when I see him I wonder if he will ever make use of it. Took Jordy 4 years to get it going. Lots of drops as well. But they really stuck with him and it has paid off. I'm not saying Adams is Jordy, but that possibility hasn't been ruled out for me yet.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Collinsworth started to say last night that "all the penalties seem to be on the Packers tonight", which a stat showed wasn't true. But I think what he was thinking at the time was "the penalties on the Packers are really costing them tonight"

Mistakes, penalties, turnovers and just lack of hustle at times, seem to be the offenses worst enemies (beating themselves).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think this is a tough year to fully evaluate any of the current WR's on the team, since at times they have all had issues.

 

[TJV]

I still truly believe Adams will get better. That he has more natural talent and a higher "ceiling" than Abbrederis. Though sometimes when I see him I wonder if he will ever make use of it. Took Jordy 4 years to get it going. Lots of drops as well. But they really stuck with him and it has paid off. I'm not saying Adams is Jordy, but that possibility hasn't been ruled out for me yet.

The obvious difference between Adams' and Nelson's development is what was asked of them. There wasn’t much “room” for Jordy compared to Adams: In Jordy’s rookie year Jennings and Driver combined for 154 catches and 2,300+ yards. The next season they caught 138 for 2,100+ and Finley had 55 for 676. Jordy came on in his third year as Driver dropped off and he and Jones picked up the slack. Then during the postseason title drive Jordy nearly matched Jennings production – same number of catches and TDs. We'll never know how Jordy would have progressed if he would have been asked in his second season to step into the #2 spot. But from everything I've seen from both IMO he would have handled it better than Adams has. Anyway I think Jordy "arrived" in his third year – let’s hope Adams does too. I frankly don't see the same upside in Adams as Jordy has achieved but Adams can still be damn good and not reach that goal.

Abbrederis is better suited for the slot but because of the overall lack of production from the WRs I'd just like to see him on the field in either spot. He seems to get open and he's earned Rodgers' trust.

 

[Mondio]

I don't remember Jordy dropping so many big passes either. I seem to remember his 1st or 2nd year every other ball he caught was for a big first down and almost every ball that hit him in the hands was caught.

 

[Un4GivN]

I don't remember Jordy dropping so many big passes either. I seem to remember his 1st or 2nd year every other ball he caught was for a big first down and almost every ball that hit him in the hands was caught.

I posted this in the Adams thread but here are Jordy's stats as of 2013 (His first 5 years)

Jordy Nelson 256 catches 25 drops 281 catchable 8.90 drop rate

Adams career:
Adams right now is at 9.09 if going by catchable passes and not targets as the stat is above for Nelson.

And we all know JJ was the KING of big drops, dropped two sure touchdowns in the super bowl run, one in the Super Bowl one against Philly before half. Especially early in his career he was nearly crucified for his drops.

I certainly dont remember all of Nelsons drops one that sticks out though is last year in Buffalo when he dropped wide open 94 yard touchdown grab. Although it's hard to imagine it now... He was once human.

Like I said this doesn't mean that he will ever become Nelson, that is crazy to even think... But the potential is there to be much more than he is there I believe. And the drops don't worry me nearly as much as his inability to create separation.

 

[Un4GivN]

. But from everything I've seen from both IMO he would have handled it better than Adams has. Anyway I think Jordy "arrived" in his third year – let’s hope Adams does too. I frankly don't see the same upside in Adams as Jordy has achieved but Adams can still be damn good and not reach that goal.

His third year he only had 45 catches for 582 yards and 2 touchdowns... Second lowest ypc of his career. Think you may be thinking of year 4 when he exploded for 1263 yards and 15 TDs. Or i have bad stats.

Which oddly enough same yardss and 9 more TDs than he has the other 3 years combined. And his ypc went up like 6 yards from the previous year. Now that is the jump I want to see from Adams.

 

[Shawnsta3]

Everybody wants to sub in Abberderris for Adams..what about him getting some more of Cobb's snaps in the slot?

Also, McCarthy's recently went with power heavy sets with our lines struggles in blocking, most notably at LT. But if Bakhtiari can at least steady the position I don't think it would be the worst thing to see some 4 and 5 WR sets again. Open things up.

 

[Un4GivN]

Everybody wants to sub in Abberderris for Adams..what about him getting some more of Cobb's snaps in the slot?

Also, McCarthy's recently went with power heavy sets with our lines struggles in blocking, most notably at LT. But if Bakhtiari can at least steady the position I don't think it would be the worst thing to see some 4 and 5 WR sets again. Open things up.

My biggest problem this past week was Rodgers... He missed more than normal, both throws and reads. Is there an internal problem? Is he just off? I definitely give him the benefit of the doubt he has earned that. But he needs to play near perfection if the Packers are going to make it anywhere.

He did it in 2010 and if he can make those types of passes again. There is a small chance to make a run. If not it may get rough.

And I agree, Cobb has been getting far too much of a pass this year. Everyone is on Davante but what about the guy with the huge contract. Maybe more than Jordy.

 

[red4tribe]

He can be a downgrade from Adams, and if he was better he would be playing. You judge based off of a hand full of receptions throughout the year. Where they base it off of 40 hours of work every week. Adams played better last night and it was good to see.

This Adams drop thing needs to quit.... He has a much lower drop rate than Jordy did at this point in his career. The stats are in the Adams thread down a little bit.

If you want to bring up his route running (or lack there of), and effort Im all for it. Abbrederis does seem to run harder. But please stop with the damn drop thing, it's not even a worthwhile criticism.

He needs to get open more, and Rodgers needs to build that faith with him. But he could keep this drop rate forever and I would be happy.

I will respectfully disagree with your assessment. Nelson's and Adams' drop rates may be comparable at this point in their career but there are more to Adams' drops than just that. I think you have to look at what kind of passes were dropped as well as how many targeted passes were caught, which shows how often they were able to make a play on the ball.

Look at at Adams' reception rate. When targeted this year, Adams caught 53% of Rodgers' passes. Nelson in 2009 caught 70% of his targets. Has Rodgers been off this year? Yes, and that has undoubtedly affected Adams' numbers but still, that is an enormous difference and Adams is definitely at fault. He hasn't been able to make a play on the ball when it's been in his vicinity. Also, look at Adams' y/r this year. It's 9.7. That's not exactly good, in fact it's number 113 out of 154 receivers this season. Nelson's in 2009 was 14.5. Once again, there are other contributing factors that may explain the wide gap but certainly some of the blame goes on Adams. Those numbers also make me believe (as does my memory) that many of Nelson's drops were deep passes, which are indisputably tougher to catch. Adams' very low y/r I think shows he has struggled to catch even very basic short passes. I just don't agree that comparing Nelson and Adams (in terms of drops at least) is as easy as saying "well, they had a comparable drop percentage." This isn't even to mention that Adams hasn't even remotely looked on the same page as Rodgers much of this season.

Also to factor in is that Jordy made up for a lot of his drops with spectacular catches. Not until this season did I really appreciate what an athlete he is, and how many insane catches he is capable of making. Adams just doesn't have (or at least hasn't shown to me) that same athletic ability. Jones has had it at times, but I'm just not impressed with Adams at all, though I will acknowledge he played a little bit better on Sunday.

 

[RRyder]

I remember Jordy dropping all sorts of passes and big ones at that. Neither him or Jones could catch anything for a very long time.

Go back and look at the 2010 SB, probably Jordys best game that year and rightfully so, but the drops he had were insanely horribly easy drops that made that game alot closer than it could've been. If memory serves right Jordy dropped 2 passes that would've been 50+ yard TDs most likely and Jones himself also had another one.

 

[Un4GivN]

I will respectfully disagree with your assessment. Nelson's and Adams' drop rates may be comparable at this point in their career but there are more to Adams' drops than just that. I think you have to look at what kind of passes were dropped as well as how many targeted passes were caught, which shows how often they were able to make a play on the ball.

Look at at Adams' reception rate. When targeted this year, Adams caught 53% of Rodgers' passes. Nelson in 2009 caught 70% of his targets. Has Rodgers been off this year? Yes, and that has undoubtedly affected Adams' numbers but still, that is an enormous difference and Adams is definitely at fault. He hasn't been able to make a play on the ball when it's been in his vicinity. Also, look at Adams' y/r this year. It's 9.7. That's not exactly good, in fact it's number 113 out of 154 receivers this season. Nelson's in 2009 was 14.5. Once again, there are other contributing factors that may explain the wide gap but certainly some of the blame goes on Adams. Those numbers also make me believe (as does my memory) that many of Nelson's drops were deep passes, which are indisputably tougher to catch. Adams' very low y/r I think shows he has struggled to catch even very basic short passes. I just don't agree that comparing Nelson and Adams (in terms of drops at least) is as easy as saying "well, they had a comparable drop percentage." This isn't even to mention that Adams hasn't even remotely looked on the same page as Rodgers much of this season.

Also to factor in is that Jordy made up for a lot of his drops with spectacular catches. Not until this season did I really appreciate what an athlete he is, and how many insane catches he is capable of making. Adams just doesn't have (or at least hasn't shown to me) that same athletic ability. Jones has had it at times, but I'm just not impressed with Adams at all, though I will acknowledge he played a little bit better on Sunday.

Time will ultimately tell if he has the talent to stick in the NFL, and what he will be. I'm with everyone else that he has been a disappointment. But I still think he has potential to get going. Jordy also had Jennings and Driver to help him get open back in the day. Davante has much older and slower JJ. I'm not saying he will become that, just haven't given up on him yet.

The point I was making about the drops is it isn't the drops that are the problem. He can keep that percentage forever. He needs to get open more, get better at running route. Get Aaron to trust him... There are quite a few things he isn't doing as well as one would expect. Drops is the least of those.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's been mentioned quite a bit this year during broadcasts and in the media that teams have learned how to successfully defense the Packers and their once high powered passing game. DB's are staying up close to the LOS and harassing the Packer receivers so that they have difficulty releasing into their routes. It also appears that defenders are clutching and grabbing as much as the refs will allow it beyond 5 yards. So until Alex Van Pelt finds a way to teach the receivers how to actually get release and run their routes or the Packers find receivers or plays that can accomplish this, I'm afraid that our passing game isn't going very far.

Someone mentioned in a post that they were at the game and specifically watched receivers get locked up and then just stand around. Defenses must be licking their chops when they play the Packers, without much fear of a passing attack.