1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Big Announcement Coming for 2015 Football Season!!

    Be on the look out for a big Packer Forum announcement when the schedule is released. Full details coming soon...

9-8-2013 Packers vs 49ers - REVENGE

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by 12theTruth, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Wasn't there a Clay quote somewhere about "sitting back and playing pattycake with the Tackle?" Probably on ESPN.

    Speaking of ESPN, great article on our defense
    http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=9301&is_corp=1
    Also, Brad Jones and Burnett questionable. VD epidemic on the way. :cry:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  2. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,107
    Ratings:
    +1,058
    #1 - I was NOT jabbing at you over the 9'ers SB loss. There is something internet-singular about people who can razz other fans about such things. I clearly stated that I understood the agony of watching your team lose a Super Bowl. Yes, I was referring to San Diego ... I was there. There were fans of 30 other teams that would give their eye teeth to be one of two left standing. So, calm down.

    #2 - Nowhere in my post did I so much as infer that the Packers need to play like the 9'ers to be successful.
     
  3. Crazy Packers Fan

    Crazy Packers Fan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    391
    Ratings:
    +115
    I for one am on record that I don't think this is going to be a very good year for the Packers. But I'm sick of losing to San Francisco. So here's what I want Rodgers to be saying before this game...

     
  4. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +515
    Complete BS. The rule is clear and ChiefWhiner Harbaugh doesn't like it because it applies to his QB: If a QB fakes the handoff and drops back for a play-action, he's protected. If Kaepernick does that, he's fine. But if a QB holds the ball or fakes the hand-off and moves LATERALLY, he's not protected and he can be hit.

    Want Kaepernick protected? All Whinebaugh has to do is have him drop back after a fake hand-off. That's called play-action.

    Oh and btw, I hope that the Smith bros go after Rodgers like you say, because Rodgers is a pocket-passer. And they'll get a yellow flag thrown their way right and left. The only time Rodgers goes outside the pocket is on a scramble. Then he's not protected.

    In other words, the QB is fair game until he takes himself out of the play which he can do by dropping back without the ball. IF he is in a running posture however, he is not protected, and moving laterally 9 times out of 10 is equivalent to a running posture.

    /bye
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  5. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72

    In a video distributed to the media, NFL vice president of officiating Dean Blandino said read-option quarterbacks can be viewed by the defense as ballcarriers, even when they no longer have the ball.

    "He is still treated as a runner until he is clearly out of the play," Blandino said. "The quarterback makes the pitch, he's still a runner – he can be hit like a runner until he's clearly out of the play."

    Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/07/5714192/49ers-notes-harbaugh-calls-nfl.html#storylink=cpy
     
  6. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    If the QB is still in a position behind the RB or close enough to get in a position to be lateraled the ball then YES he can still be pitched the ball, so yes he would still be a threat the defense has to worry about. If he is 10 or 15 yards away and it is obvious that he has taken himself out of the play then you will see a flag if he were to be throttled in that situation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2013
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    That's true in ALL plays, not just a read option. And it makes no sense to treat him like a runner until he is actually a runner (or pretends to be one).
     
  8. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    Harbaugh is the one who wants special protections for his QB. All he is doing is trying to create doubt in the referees minds. The only ones taking seriously his complaints is 49er fans. About 70% of folks disagree and see what Harbaugh is up too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    You didn't at all address what I said.

    "That's true in ALL plays, not just a read option. And it makes no sense to treat him like a runner until he is actually a runner (or pretends to be one)."
     
  10. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +370
    I already remarked on this point in a post above. But yeah, basically I'll still be waxing philosophically about it as I prepare the hangman's noose for myself. hahaha In all seriousness though, it may happen and it may not. If it does happen it will suck a lot. I however won't cry to the NFL about needing to change the rule or whatever. Simple matter of fact is that I highly doubt that Rodgers will be running a R-O play all too often if at all.
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,653
    Ratings:
    +2,956
    As long as it was with in the rules, so be it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,127
    Ratings:
    +1,773
    thats okay Bud, not looking to argue, I`m just asking ;)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +370
    It makes no sense to have a guy on the field that can't be hit, unless it is the Kicker.
     
  14. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    Non sequitur.
     
  15. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +370
    I see your "non sequitur" and raise you "not an offencive threat".
     
  16. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    You're either not getting it or you're deliberately trying to avoid the point.

    A quarterback (more specifically, a passer) standing in the pocket on a conventional pass play is also an offensive threat, but by NFL rules is afforded certain protections that other ball carriers (running backs, full backs, etc) are not afforded. Hence, special rules about "roughing the passer" that don't apply to running backs.

    The VP of NFL officiating stated that during a read option play the passer loses protection normally afforded to a passer, simply because it's a read option. If the passer is not running with the ball, why?
     
  17. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +370
    Well for one if he is faking a run, acting as a blocker, or positioning himself to receive the ball potentially at some point again after the snap why should he be treated as a passer when he is obviously not passing?
     
  18. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    Some of those have always applied, and are not specific to the read option. It has always been that if the QB is running the ball outside the pocket, either on a scramble or a designed run play, he is considered a running back. It has also always been that if a QB engages as a blocker he loses his "roughing the passer" protections. So why the need for a change specific to the read option?

    The way the VP of officiating explained it, it doesn't seem to matter if the QB is outside of the pocket. Once the passer hands the ball off, if he fakes like he still has the ball a defender can hit him low and say he is a run threat - even if he's still in the pocket.

    All Harbaugh is asking for is clarification on the "strike zone" (his words) that the QB still receives passer protection if he stays inside the pocket. Unreasonable?
     
  19. gatorpack

    gatorpack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    675
    Ratings:
    +152
    .
    Yawn... Kap is so good he don't need to use the option anyways so who cares. Right?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +515
    "Simply because it is a read option" is the phrase that you do not pay enough attention to. What is the read option and how does it differ from play-action?

    Play-action: the QB fakes a hand-off to the RB and drops back for a pass. If he releases the ball he's out of the play. If he doesn't and, say, scrambles, guess what? he's a running back.

    Read Option: the QB an the RB meet. The QB looks at the defender on the side of the play who is not being blocked, determines whether he is keying on the RB or on himself, and then decides whether to hand the ball off or to keep it on a running play that is designed to go in the opposite direction of the defender who is not blocked. The principle behind the Read Option is to create a mismatch: leave one defender on the opposite side from where the play will go unblocked, and seal everyone else off on the side that the running play is designed for.

    In the Read Option, the QB waits to see who the unblocked defender is going after before he decides. That makes him a runner, even when he's in the pocket. He is not faking the hand-off to drop back for a pass; he is trying to get the defender to commit and then handing off or not. He is a runner, whether he hands the ball off or not, just in the same way that a RB who is part of a fake hand-off can be tackled without penalty.

    The Read option means that the QB is engaging in deliberate trickery to make himself look like a runner, even if he isn't the actual runner. IF the defense was not able to treat the QB as a runner even while in the pocket, it would give the QB a huge and unreasonable advantage since he could hand the ball off and fake like he's tucking it in and running. Under the normal rules, if he did the latter and the defender tackled him, the defender would be called for roughing the passer, which the new rule is designed to correct.

    In a play-action, the QB is faking the hand-off to get the defense to go after the RB while he drops back for a pass.

    That's why.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    Well he is the greatest quarterback in football history, dating all the way back to the very first game in 1869. That's why I want to protect him.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  22. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    Actually, a read option can also end up being a pass play. The QB can keep it, hand it, or throw it.
     
  23. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +515
    So can a RB you hand the ball off to, but that doesn't change anything because the Read option is designed around fooling the defender in a run-type formation.
     
  24. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Ratings:
    +72
    Under normal rules on a halfback pass, once the half back takes a passing posture inside the pocket he receives passer protections. Roughing the passer isn't specific to the quarterback, it applies to any passer.
     
  25. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,127
    Ratings:
    +1,773
    laughing2.jpg
     

Share This Page