2023 round 2 pick #42: Luke Musgrave

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My comment was about Reed but I'm not sold on the Musgrave pick. Yeh he's a great athlete but had horrible production in the PAC 10 where they don't play much defense and he's coming off a major injury. I think Gute overvalues the RAS which I admit is important but doesn't pay enough attention to proven play making ability vs good competition and most importantly, the ability to stay healthy.
 
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2) Not drafting a receiver in the 1st round is an approach that now appears to be part of the reason we're in the position we are now. Coupling that with '19 and '20? I'm going to stand by my statements...
2010-12 receiving corps that is the recent standard you are advocating for had no #1 picks in it. In the past 40+ years the Packers have drafted 2 WR and 1 TE in the first round. Both Favre and Rodgers had pretty prolific careers stat-wise over that time nonetheless. Enough hits in the draft. Those have been missing recently.
 
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Thats not how it works man, Rodgers cap number was never going to be 50 million in 2024. They dont save 30 million on the cap becas Love will count about 20 million against the cap
I never said anything about the cap. I’m referring to average annual Guaranteed $$$.

I’m talking real money. Not how much we feel like reporting now verses later.
 
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My comment was about Reed but I'm not sold on the Musgrave pick. Yeh he's a great athlete but had horrible production in the PAC 10 where they don't play much defense and he's coming off a major injury. I think Gute overvalues the RAS which I admit is important but doesn't pay enough attention to proven play making ability vs good competition and most importantly, the ability to stay healthy.
Lance Zerlein had him Round 2
His Comparison as Dallas Goedert.

The other common comparison is Mike Gesicki.

Where did Dallas Goedert and Mike Gesicki get drafted at?
 
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I never said anything about the cap. I’m referring to average annual Guaranteed $$$.

I’m talking real money. Not how much we feel like reporting now verses later.

I apologize I misunderstood...

Why does real money matter to us? Or the Packers for that matter? They are not cash poor, they make the money back and more every year, idk
 
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I apologize I misunderstood...

Why does real money matter to us? Or the Packers for that matter? They are not cash poor, they make the money back and more every year, idk
Oh It’s ok I misunderstand all the time brother.
You’re essentially asking me why $40.3M sunk matters? Ask Brian and Russ that question (thankfully it wasn’t $16M more!).

What I meant by real money is monies that are married to guaranteed have to eventually be accounted for at some juncture through Football Operations (Not Paul Baniel, but I thank him for his service!) That amount of guaranteed eventually finds it’s way onto the capital balance ledger at some point. It’s what we refer to as paying the Piper.
 
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Oh It’s ok I misunderstand all the time brother.
You’re essentially asking me why $40.3M sunk matters? Ask Brian and Russ that question (thankfully it wasn’t $16M more!).

What I meant by real money is monies that are married to guaranteed have to eventually be accounted for at some juncture through Football Operations (Not Paul Baniel, but I thank him for his service!) That amount of guaranteed eventually finds it’s way onto the capital balance ledger at some point. It’s what we refer to as paying the Piper.

That 40.3 m is dead cap...thats not all the cash Rodgers was paid out

Yes 40.3 m in dead cap is not ideal. But they swapped firsts gotva nice 2nd and will get a late first in exchange for that 40 3 m.

I think its well worth it because the Packers had a legitimate shot to win a SB essentially every year because of it
 

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Musgrave has an unacceptably high drop percentage. Yeh he has a good RAS but if you have butter fingers, it dorsn't matter. For a team that can't stay healthy and is plagued by knee injuries , why pick soneone who already has a season ending knee injury? Gute is tone deaf to the Packers injury epidemic

I remember when some Packer fans here wrote off Davante Adams as "paddle hands".

:D
 

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Folks acting like Musgrave wasn't fully healthy and recovered from his MCL is just folks ignoring reality. Injuries happen, teams everywhere deal with them and they're more and more common to come back from.
 

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Folks acting like Musgrave wasn't fully healthy and recovered from his MCL is just folks ignoring reality. Injuries happen, teams everywhere deal with them and they're more and more common to come back from.
Picking guys who are durable is part of a sound strategy to mimimize injury issues. In the other hand, picking guys coming off of major injuries in college is ignoring one of the best ways to field a durable roster. The best ability is still availability.
 

tynimiller

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Picking guys who are durable is part of a sound strategy to mimimize injury issues. In the other hand, picking guys coming off of major injuries in college is ignoring one of the best ways to field a durable roster. The best ability is still availability.

I get that, however the dude passed every physical test thrown his way, didn't lose ANY of his speed and explosion (clocked at 20.05MPH in the senior bowl liveplay) and clearly passed our in house medical checks.
 

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Picking guys who are durable is part of a sound strategy to mimimize injury issues. In the other hand, picking guys coming off of major injuries in college is ignoring one of the best ways to field a durable roster. The best ability is still availability.

Mcl is not a major injury, never has been. Even acl isnt as bad as it used to be.

You are correct though in saying this... picking guys who are often injured in college is not sound logic or strategy. Certainly the type of injury matters but yeah if a guy is always injured in college what makes anyone think they wont be in the NFL
 
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Musgrave had an MCL tear. He should have a full recovery and participate right away. The only other injury noted was in 2018 he had a concussion in high school. He's a more polished receiver than Washington which is what we need Love to have.

I don't consider Musgrave to be a polished receiver after having only 47 receptions in college to go along with nine drops.

I never said anything about the cap. I’m referring to average annual Guaranteed $$$.

I’m talking real money. Not how much we feel like reporting now verses later.

Rodgers hasn't made an average of $50 million at any point in his career with the Packers though. The extension he signed last offseason actually ended up being a one-year, $42 million deal.
 
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Injuries happen, teams everywhere deal with them and they're more and more common to come back from.
Absolutely. I didn’t realize until doing some homework on K Carlson how much that concept applied to him. He was wearing a brace on his plant leg for a significant portion of his recent Kicks after injuring.
His older brother went through very similar struggles Kicking and Rich molded him into a phenomenal Kicker. Brother Daniel Carlson’s first 2 NFL seasons were a shaky rollercoaster. He’s now arguably a top3 NFL Kicker there for the Raiders
 

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Mcl is not a major injury, never has been. Even acl isnt as bad as it used to be.

You are correct though in saying this... picking guys who are often injured in college is not sound logic or strategy. Certainly the type of injury matters but yeah if a guy is always injured in college what makes anyone think they wont be in the NFL
I'm sorry, but ,what? What constitutes a major injury? If an injury keeps you sidelined you know, no on field play for at least a couple of months (potentially 8 games) that can be VERY bad. In football, we always knew the most important ability, is availability. So I disagree with those first 2 sentences. IMO, this was a high risk, high reward situation. I personally want him to prove all the doubters wrong and hope him being hurt last year doesn't happen for us.
 

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I'm sorry, but ,what? What constitutes a major injury? If an injury keeps you sidelined you know, no on field play for at least a couple of months (potentially 8 games) that can be VERY bad. In football, we always knew the most important ability, is availability. So I disagree with those first 2 sentences. IMO, this was a high risk, high reward situation. I personally want him to prove all the doubters wrong and hope him being hurt last year doesn't happen for us.

What more can he do?? The dude literally ran 20.05 MPH in the senior bowl live play in pads and on a play?
He was able to do every physical test the combine, pro-day and private workouts threw at him.
Every team most likely through medical staff at him and clearly he passed those.

You have zero ability to know whether someone will get injured tomorrow...now if this was the second MCL or knee injury to the same one or such and was a reoccurring injury I'd begin to get concerned quickly.
 

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Musgrave missed the entire season after his knee injury in week 2. How is a season ending knee injury not considered a major injury? The pick is high risk. Let's hope its high reward.
 

tynimiller

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Musgrave missed the entire season after his knee injury in week 2. How is a season ending knee injury not considered a major injury? The pick is high risk. Let's hope its high reward.

Because unlike a guy that was injured, couldn't do combine, pro day or private workouts....he was able to do all those things, and even dominated the Senior Bowl against the "best collection" of prospects in the draft.
 

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What more can he do?? The dude literally ran 20.05 MPH in the senior bowl live play in pads and on a play?
He was able to do every physical test the combine, pro-day and private workouts threw at him.
Every team most likely through medical staff at him and clearly he passed those.

You have zero ability to know whether someone will get injured tomorrow...now if this was the second MCL or knee injury to the same one or such and was a reoccurring injury I'd begin to get concerned quickly.
Some players are durable. They don't miss more than 20% of their games over 3 or more seasons. Some guys miss even fewer game over even longer periods. While one major injury may be a one time event in an otherwise durable career, it may also prove to be a harbinger of things to come, especially since the NFL game is even more taxing on the body than college. Picking guys who have shown durability is one of the few ways a GM can minimize injuries. While durability shouldn't be the only metric, it should rank high enough so that picking guys with serious injury histories is a rather exceptional situation for high draft picks, even after they get "healthy" again for the combine. Gute appeared to throw caution to the wind. A case in point was Justin Harrel. He had health issues in college and never stayed healthy long enough in the pros to do much. If you want to roll the dice on guys who are supposedly past their injury problems, it may be a better choice to use lower draft picks.
 

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