2023 Draft Talk

[Pokerbrat2000]

My opinion was I think he will be taken in the top 10. Can I have that opinion?

Of course you can, as long as it is cleared by staff.

I wasn't trying to bust your balls, so thanks for clarifying your position. You made it sound like I was your only source of ANY information on the guy. The only information I have, is public internet stuff, so you have access to just as much as me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally 1 Georgia guy with issues is enough for now. IMO.

Gute seems to like Georgia players....Stokes, Wyatt, Walker. All first round picks, in the last 2 drafts.

 

[Dantés]

Yes, I know that's why I mention it say that I'm not really buying it for that being a good reason. They mentioned that Johnson did not do a lot with the ball after the catch but they also said there was no doubt that he was going to help some ballclub win games.

I think there's substance to the argument myself (obviously-- I made it). But I don't blame anyone who looks at Johnston and sees a future stud, just given the tools. I myself find them tantalizing.

 

[tynimiller]

Personally 1 Georgia guy with issues is enough for now. IMO.

Right...


Gute: Hey Quay, got a few questions for you. What type of man is Jalen - not talking on the field but off, good dude?

Quay: Oh my word yes, one of the best people I've ever met.

Gute: Thanks.

[Gute walks down hall and pokes head in MLF's room]

Gute: Anyone who recommends we draft Jalen before the 7th round will instantly be flogged in the war room and covered in honey before being tossed into the bear cage at the Green Bay zoo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Gosh, I would hope that someone told that Day 1 pick he was drafted already and he can go home.

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We got tricked. Aaron Rodgers told Gutey to grab the #33 so we Could get first dibs on Day 2. We just realized it’s the 2nd Pick this year!!
I think We just got Immunized!

 

[Schultz]

Gute seems to like Georgia players....Stokes, Wyatt, Walker. All first round picks, in the last 2 drafts.

IMO the jury is still out on all 3.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO the jury is still out on all 3.

Agreed. Way too early to tell on any of them. We have seen both good and bad from all 3.

I would love to talk to a college scout and ask them how they separate the players performance, from the team performance. Meaning, all these guys played at Georgia on one hell of a defense. So were they individually worth 1st round picks or was it the collective of the players around them, that made them look so good? Obviously, Packer scouts felt individually, that all 3 were worthy of being a first round pick.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I don't see more speed unless you're talking long speed, Mingo is more explosive and their nearly identical through that 20/30 yard stretch window which is going to hold a TON of the routes they run. Mingo's short range is where he is quicker and more explosive. Not saying he's going to be a better WR than Godwin as there is far more at work than just quickness and explosiveness to getting open.

It's been awhile since I watched Godwin's tape or watched an NFL game of his so this is purely based on my faulty memory, but I seem to remember Godwin having a second gear that I don't really see with Mingo. I also think Godwin was a bit more twitchy on his route breaks.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed. Way too early to tell on any of them. We have seen both good and bad from all 3.

I would love to talk to a college scout and ask them how they separate the players performance, from the team performance. Meaning, all these guys played at Georgia on one hell of a defense. So were they individually worth 1st round picks or was it the collective of the players around them, that made them look so good? Obviously, Packer scouts felt individually, that all 3 were worthy of being a first round pick.

I’d say it’s early. Yet Walker seemed to be the most consistent thus far (early in their Pro careers). As long as Walker cleans up his extra curricular fighting, he’s going to be a good value.
I think Stokes will be found out this year. Bc he’s been up, down and injured. Yet I’m feeling the arrows are pointed up with Stokes because of how he handled himself starting in his Rookie season.
I think We’ll know with Wyatt either later this season or early next season area. Nowhere enough data on him.

If we get an addition on the iDL or Edge help from Myles Murphy from Clemson? I think it will help Wyatt because he’s used to being around superior talent and then feeding off that as a nice additive. If we get Clark and Wyatt in the middle with 2 of Murphy, Smith of Gary on the Edge? We should see a D jump start this season

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, I know that's why I mention it say that I'm not really buying it for that being a good reason. They mentioned that Johnson did not do a lot with the ball after the catch but they also said there was no doubt that he was going to help some ballclub win games.

Johnston ranked sixth in the entire FBS among the 200 wide receivers with the most targets with an average of 8.9 yards after the catch per reception last season.

So what are peoples thoughts on Jalen Carter? Once considered a top 5 pick, now there is speculation that he could tumble quite far. If he tumbles to #15, do the Packers draft him? I doubt he was even on the Packers radar a month ago, but should he be? Not really a huge need, but imagine a DL with Carter, Clark and Wyatt.

The Packers would be able to snatch a hugely talented player if Carter drops to 15th. I highly doubt they would be the one to ignore his character flaws if 14 other teams pass on him.

 

[gopkrs]

Johnston ranked sixth in the entire FBS among the 200 wide receivers with the most targets with an average of 8.9 yards after the catch per reception last season.

Well, that's good. I think they also said he had a small problem with some drops but they did not make a big deal of it. He just seems like an ideal size to me.

 

[Dantés]

Johnston is a big receiver who often plays small. He is capable of making the highlight reel play at the catchpoint, but it's not consistent. His most intriguing quality, as was noted, is his ability with the ball in his hand. He's got pretty special movement for a bigger player.

 

[Dantés]

I don't think that the Packers would ever draft him, but I am so stinking enamored with Zay Flowers. I know this class is loaded with tiny dudes, but he's the one that's special. My glimmer of hope is that he got up to 182 lbs for the combine, it was clearly "good weight," and then proved he could move really well at that size. He's 5'9", so 182 is fairly dense.

This is getting pretty nerdy, but compare his body density to the other small receivers in the class:

Flowers: 2.64 lbs per inch
Mims: 2.58
Scott: 2.53
Downs: 2.48
Hyatt: 2.44
Addison: 2.44
Dell: 2.43

Another way to look at it is if he was 6'0" tall at this density (Hyatt's height), he would be 190 (14 lbs heavier).

Some successful size comps for Flowers (just as a proof of concept):

Jaylen Waddle: 5'9", 180
Tyler Lockett: 5'10", 182
T.Y. Hilton: 5'9", 183
Diontae Johnson: 5'10", 183
Steve Smith: 5'9", 184
Santana Moss: 5'9", 184
Eddie Royal: 5'9", 184
Emmanuel Sanders: 5'10", 186

Garrett Wilson, 6'0", 183
Devonta Smith, 6'0", 170

Anyways-- the Packers tend to draft big humans. Even when they made exceptions for shorter guys (Alexander, Rodgers), those guys were heavy for their height.

But I love Flowers. He's electric and would give the offense a dynamic that it doesn't have right now.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't think that the Packers would ever draft him, but I am so stinking enamored with Zay Flowers. I know this class is loaded with tiny dudes, but he's the one that's special. My glimmer of hope is that he got up to 182 lbs for the combine, it was clearly "good weight," and then proved he could move really well at that size. He's 5'9", so 182 is fairly dense.

This is getting pretty nerdy, but compare his body density to the other small receivers in the class:

Flowers: 2.64 lbs per inch
Mims: 2.58
Scott: 2.53
Downs: 2.48
Hyatt: 2.44
Addison: 2.44
Dell: 2.43

Another way to look at it is if he was 6'0" tall at this density (Hyatt's height), he would be 190 (14 lbs heavier).

Some successful size comps for Flowers (just as a proof of concept):

Jaylen Waddle: 5'9", 180
Tyler Lockett: 5'10", 182
T.Y. Hilton: 5'9", 183
Diontae Johnson: 5'10", 183
Steve Smith: 5'9", 184
Santana Moss: 5'9", 184
Eddie Royal: 5'9", 184
Emmanuel Sanders: 5'10", 186

Garrett Wilson, 6'0", 183
Devonta Smith, 6'0", 170

Anyways-- the Packers tend to draft big humans. Even when they made exceptions for shorter guys (Alexander, Rodgers), those guys were heavy for their height.

But I love Flowers. He's electric and would give the offense a dynamic that it doesn't have right now.

When I saw his pictures of in season and right before the combine - that dude stacked on good weight. Zay was off my radar until I saw that as far as worthy of second round consideration....I'd venture to say the list got shorter infront of him of prospects I'd take over him.

Question actually along that line - I know you like JSN.... who would you pick over him if when our name is called for the draft if ALL prospects fell to us?

I personally have a list of 11 people I would most likely pick over JSN with our first pick 100% and it includes 5 edges, 2 CBs, 2 OTs, 1 TE, 1 iDL (*with character questions though).

That plus the 4 QBS is why I just don't ever find myself picking JSN except in a trade back. I think your number is of course gonna be fewer, just curious how many.

The names of the dudes in my list would be (in no particular order other than position groups): Will Anderson, Myles Murphy, Tyree Wilson, Lukas Van Ness, Nolan Smith, Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones, Joey Porter Jr, Christian Gonzalez, Dalton Kincaid, Jalen Carter.

Positional value and history though tells me to consider further guys like Darnell Wright, Blake Freeland, Anton Harrison, Dawand Jones, Felix Anudike-Uzomah, BJ Ojulari, Bryan Bresee as well and go WR in the second round (assuming we have two in that round with Jets trade).

 

[PikeBadger]

Gute seems to like Georgia players....Stokes, Wyatt, Walker. All first round picks, in the last 2 drafts.

I'd prefer he back off from that trend.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd prefer he back off from that trend.

Well....considering 15 Georgia players were drafted in the 2022 draft, 5 of them going in the first round, don't hold your breath. They had 12 players invited to this years combine, that tells me that nobody will be backing off that trend, maybe not even Gute. Really crazy to see the picks again. I can't find how many UDFA's were possibly signed from Georgia as well.

First round

• DE Travon Walker: No. 1 overall, Jacksonville Jaguars
• DT Jordan Davis: No. 13, Philadelphia Eagles
• LB Quay Walker: No. 22, Green Bay Packers
• DT Devonte Wyatt: No. 28, Green Bay Packers
• S Lewis Cine: No. 32, Minnesota Vikings

Second round

• WR George Pickens: No. 52 overall, Pittsburgh Steelers
• RB James Cook: No. 63, Buffalo Bills

Third round

• LB Nakobe Dean: No. 83, Philadelphia Eagles
• LB Channing Tindall: No, 102, Miami Dolphins

Fourth round

• RB Zamir White: No. 122, Las Vegas Raiders
• P Jake Camarda: No. 133, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Sixth round

• OG Justin Shaffer: No. 190, Atlanta Falcons
• OG Jamaree Salyer: No, 195, Los Angeles Chargers
• CB Derion Kendrick: No. 212, Los Angeles Rams
• TE: John FitzPatrick: No. 213, Atlanta Falcons

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'd prefer he back off from that trend.

Out of these three, Walker has shown the most promise early. Stokes had a very solid rookie year, then seemed to regress, then got injured. I don't know about Wyatt. I guess he was improving on at the end of the year, or being given more snaps.

I'd be happy if Gluten took some impact players on offense in the first round, for a change.......

 

[PikeBadger]

Same here. Out of these three, Walker has shown the most promise early. Stokes had a very solid rookie year, then seemed to regress, then got injured. I don't know about Wyatt. I guess he was going on at the end of the year.

I'd be happy if Gluten took some impact players on offense in the first round, for a change.......

I probably will be happy if his first picks aren't from Georgia or Alabama.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd be happy if Gluten took some impact players on offense in the first round, for a change.......

So stay away from these players from Georgia in all rounds?

Darnell Washington - TE
Broderick Jones - OT
Warren McClendon - OT
Kenny McIntosh - RB
Kearis Jackson - WR
Jack Podlesny - K

 

[tynimiller]

I'd prefer he back off from that trend.

I mean I get it with Walker being a bone head but what's been so bad about them to not want it?

Just guys in first three rounds last handful of years:

Travon Walker - 1st overall last year, started 14 games, 3.5 sacks and 30 tackles
Jordan Davis - 1st rounder for Eagles and was very good for a rookie
Quay Walker - Starter for us
Devonte Wyatt - Started slow but by seasons' end was doing quite well.
Nakobe Dean - 3rd rounder 2022 for Eagles that saw tons of ST snaps and few defensive, expected to see more this year.
Lewis Cine - Injury cannot hold that against him
Channing Tindall - 3rd rounder 2022 for Miami
Tyson Campbell - Second rounder for Jax in 2021, been a starter for them.
Azeez Ojulari - 2nd rounder for Giants in 2021, had 8 sacks in just year one and then on a shortened season last year just seeing 7 games he had 5.5
Monty Rice - 3rd rounder for Titans and has started 10 games for them since and 102 tackles
DeAndre Baker - 1st in 2019 dude turned gangster and faced criminal reasons he is gone...he did start nearly all games first year.
Roquan Smith - 1st....BEAST
Lorenzo Carter - 3rd rounder in 2018...has amassed 50 starts and 66 games, 2 INTs, 18.5 sacks, 211 tackles.


Many are of course new draftees so book isn't written yet of course but the hit rate is quite stinking high honestly on GA defensive players...and while pasting this list over, I noticed a LOT of offensive guys in there too recently and that hit rate may be higher.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I mean I get it with Walker being a bone head but what's been so bad about them to not want it?

Just guys in first three rounds last handful of years:

Travon Walker - 1st overall last year, started 14 games, 3.5 sacks and 30 tackles
Jordan Davis - 1st rounder for Eagles and was very good for a rookie
Quay Walker - Starter for us
Devonte Wyatt - Started slow but by seasons' end was doing quite well.
Nakobe Dean - 3rd rounder 2022 for Eagles that saw tons of ST snaps and few defensive, expected to see more this year.
Lewis Cine - Injury cannot hold that against him
Channing Tindall - 3rd rounder 2022 for Miami
Tyson Campbell - Second rounder for Jax in 2021, been a starter for them.
Azeez Ojulari - 2nd rounder for Giants in 2021, had 8 sacks in just year one and then on a shortened season last year just seeing 7 games he had 5.5
Monty Rice - 3rd rounder for Titans and has started 10 games for them since and 102 tackles
DeAndre Baker - 1st in 2019 dude turned gangster and faced criminal reasons he is gone...he did start nearly all games first year.
Roquan Smith - 1st....BEAST
Lorenzo Carter - 3rd rounder in 2018...has amassed 50 starts and 66 games, 2 INTs, 18.5 sacks, 211 tackles.


Many are of course new draftees so book isn't written yet of course but the hit rate is quite stinking high honestly on GA defensive players...and while pasting this list over, I noticed a LOT of offensive guys in there too recently and that hit rate may be higher.

Honestly, I think people are over reacting to Walker's unsportsmanlike penalties. Were they stupid? Yeah, but rookies tend to do dumb things, it is how they learn and mature. Also, I wouldn't label any of them as an out of control hothead behavior, but as just not fully thinking stuff through.

I'm also not all that worried about Stokes. He showed some really good stuff in his rookie year. As long as he comes back fine from his injury, I think he will be a good CB.

 

[tynimiller]

Honestly, I think people are over reacting to Walker's unsportsmanlike penalties. Were they stupid? Yeah, but rookies tend to do dumb things, it is how they learn and mature. Also, I wouldn't label any of them as an out of control hothead behavior, but as just not fully thinking stuff through.

I'm also not all that worried about Stokes. He showed some really good stuff in his rookie year. As long as he comes back fine from his injury, I think he will be a good CB.

Walker's were boneheaded - not Burfict dirty so I'm like whatever unless it continues for years and years.

As for Stokes I am worried only from an injury recovery stance not for any other reason. I've withheld christening him a level CB1 type guy or CB2 type...but he clearly is an NFL rostered CB IMO at minimum.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Walker's were boneheaded - not Burfict dirty so I'm like whatever unless it continues for years and years.

As for Stokes I am worried only from an injury recovery stance not for any other reason. I've withheld christening him a level CB1 type guy or CB2 type...but he clearly is an NFL rostered CB IMO at minimum.

LOL....was trying to remember that name....Burfict, but didn't want to spend time looking for "Bengals Bully Baller". You are correct, nothing like him. Definitely correctable behavior and I doubt the coaches are all that worried about it. I watched Walker quite a bit last year, intentionally and I really think with the right DL in front of him, this guy is going to be great.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Amazing. Burfict is only 32 and he has been out of Football since he was suspended 4 games into the 2019 season for a helmet to helmet hit. The suspension was for a full year and he never played again. He did say that he wants to play again and hasn't fully retired, but a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

 

[Heyjoe4]

So stay away from these players from Georgia in all rounds?

Darnell Washington - TE
Broderick Jones - OT
Warren McClendon - OT
Kenny McIntosh - RB
Kearis Jackson - WR
Jack Podlesny - K

No, no problem with solid picks from any school. Would just like to see some early picks used on O this year. Then again, if a guy like Lukas Van Ness drops to #15 (or #13), gotta grab him. I never put much stock in the BPA approach, but early in the draft, it's probably the way to go. And you know Poker, all rules have exceptions, and the drafts never fall exactly the way the experts predict!