2019 Draft Class - Beginning to Prove It in 2020

tynimiller

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Unless I have Sternberger pegged wrong, I don't think they will have a true Y on the roster after Lewis moves on (if he moves on).

I think they brought Lewis back despite his age mostly because he can handle himself in line, whereas Tonyan is more of an F and Deguara is a pure H.

100% agree
 

gopkrs

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I had to look it up but it seems from what I read that a Y receiver is a TE that lines up on the line. And that F and H line up in the backfield one of them a bit closer to the line than the other. Both more like a fullback. I don't know how you can't call Sternberger a traditional on the line TE and certainly Tonyan lines up on the line almost all the time. We can count this game. Deguara may spend a lot of time off the line next year but I certainly don't think he is limited to that. It's not like you can expect a TE to block a pass rushing DE one on one. Even Mercedes cannot really do that and he has monster size. Thing is...he is not a pass catching TE. He gets open because they expect him to stay in and block. Going by size, I think we have Y tight ends. Sternberger is young and I guess he will add some weight. Basically, I think we are set at TE. Please pick this apart and show me what I said that is wrong, what you think we are lacking, why and what you would prefer.
 

Dantés

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I had to look it up but it seems from what I read that a Y receiver is a TE that lines up on the line. And that F and H line up in the backfield one of them a bit closer to the line than the other. Both more like a fullback. I don't know how you can't call Sternberger a traditional on the line TE and certainly Tonyan lines up on the line almost all the time. We can count this game. Deguara may spend a lot of time off the line next year but I certainly don't think he is limited to that. It's not like you can expect a TE to block a pass rushing DE one on one. Even Mercedes cannot really do that and he has monster size. Thing is...he is not a pass catching TE. He gets open because they expect him to stay in and block. Going by size, I think we have Y tight ends. Sternberger is young and I guess he will add some weight. Basically, I think we are set at TE. Please pick this apart and show me what I said that is wrong, what you think we are lacking, why and what you would prefer.

There are four designations for various types of tight ends. I'm sure there are slight differences in definition depending on who you ask, but here is my best understanding:

The "Y" is what we think of as a traditional in-line tight end. But merely lining up "in-line" on occasion is not all it means to be a "Y." These guys do the heavy lifting in the blocking department, especially in the running game. A big differentiator of a Y is that they can be relied on to block defensive ends play-side. So you can literally run behind them. Lewis is a Y. Gronk at his height was an elite one. Nick Boyle of Baltimore is another fantastic example.

The "U" designation refers to traditional tight ends, who may spend the majority of their time in-line, but who lack the ability to handle front side blocking responsibilities. You can run with a U lined up in-line, but you probably want him to have back side responsibility, not front side. When I think of a U, names that come to mind are like Austin Hooper or Hayden Hurst. I don't watch those guys enough to be super confident in their roles, but that's the kind of profile.

The "F" designation refers to the guys that are basically big slot receivers. They're usually plus blockers when they're detached from the formation, but a liability when trying to block in-line. This is how Kelce is used most of the time. Others in this mold would be Evan Engram or Noah Fant.

The "H" designation refers to the guys that are lead blocking specialists. Kyle Juszczyk is the best pure "H" going right now, and we all hope Deguara can thrive in that role as well.

Now the lines between these types blur all the time. Just as you might say a certain receiver is a "Z," but on occasion they line up as the "X." When you call a guy a "Y" or an "F," it's just a way of saying what his role will be most of the time.

In my opinion, both Tonyan and Sternberger are guys who can fill "F" or "U" roles, but neither have the frame/power to be "Y" tight ends. However, Sternberger could get bigger/stronger and prove to be able to do it. But I would be surprised.
 

Dantés

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I had to look it up but it seems from what I read that a Y receiver is a TE that lines up on the line. And that F and H line up in the backfield one of them a bit closer to the line than the other. Both more like a fullback. I don't know how you can't call Sternberger a traditional on the line TE and certainly Tonyan lines up on the line almost all the time. We can count this game. Deguara may spend a lot of time off the line next year but I certainly don't think he is limited to that. It's not like you can expect a TE to block a pass rushing DE one on one. Even Mercedes cannot really do that and he has monster size. Thing is...he is not a pass catching TE. He gets open because they expect him to stay in and block. Going by size, I think we have Y tight ends. Sternberger is young and I guess he will add some weight. Basically, I think we are set at TE. Please pick this apart and show me what I said that is wrong, what you think we are lacking, why and what you would prefer.

Ben Fennell was talking about Lewis matching up one on one with a DE in pass pro and it made me think of this conversation.

Ben Fennell on Twitter: "So many of the play action concepts from the Packers feature TE @MarcedesLewis89 staying in & blocking a DE 1-on-1 Big Dog does so much dirty work for this offense... All-22 Film Room out tomorrow at The Athletic - Wisconsin! https://t.co/x70oH2490i" / Twitter
 

tynimiller

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Folks that don't think Lewis is a cog that would be sorely missed are ignorant. Folks mad when we asked him back this year were ignorant. Big Dawg is a work machine for us, and does his role VERY WELL - would love to get him a SB!
 

longtimefan

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PikeBadger

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Folks that don't think Lewis is a cog that would be sorely missed are ignorant. Folks mad when we asked him back this year were ignorant. Big Dawg is a work machine for us, and does his role VERY WELL - would love to get him a SB!
That is going to be very tough to replace one day. He has been proof that guys playing specific roles that do not show up in the stat sheet are crucial to the team’s success.
 

gopkrs

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I like Mercedes a lot. But depending on him blocking one on one with a DE is going to depend on when Aaron is expected to get rid of the ball and who the DE is imho. As good as he is (and I think physically he could come back for another year); I think finding another Y blocking TE will be easier to replace than a good pass receiving TE. You could maybe put an fast/athletic O lineman (that is not good enough to play as a real O lineman) there.
 

tynimiller

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I like Mercedes a lot. But depending on him blocking one on one with a DE is going to depend on when Aaron is expected to get rid of the ball and who the DE is imho. As good as he is (and I think physically he could come back for another year); I think finding another Y blocking TE will be easier to replace than a good pass receiving TE. You could maybe put an fast/athletic O lineman (that is not good enough to play as a real O lineman) there.


That's why Big Dawg is special, dude knows route running and has good hands - he just isn't quick at them. It is tough to get a big Y that is good blocker + has the hands for those release routes and red zone moments when called upon.
 

tynimiller

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A late round guy that intrigues me that I projected us nabbing in the 6th:

Round 6 - Pick 206
Cary Angeline - TE NC State


Big Dawg is probably gone...so what we need in the TE room is that in line TE, that is a willing blocker BUT when asked does have sure hands and route knowledge. Doesn't mean his route running is crisp and elite...but he understands that aspect just like Lewis does and excels in his receiving role when asked. Angeline is just that IMO. At 6'7' he is the size...but does need to add some weight and I fully expect that to happen. His catch radius, willingness to throw his body into blocks and experience lining up in multiple spots make him a low risk, but possibly lower ceiling type guy here.
 

Dantés

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I like Mercedes a lot. But depending on him blocking one on one with a DE is going to depend on when Aaron is expected to get rid of the ball and who the DE is imho. As good as he is (and I think physically he could come back for another year); I think finding another Y blocking TE will be easier to replace than a good pass receiving TE. You could maybe put an fast/athletic O lineman (that is not good enough to play as a real O lineman) there.

For me, I bring Lewis back without a second thought if he wants to keep playing. His skill set is integral to the design of the offense. And blocking tight ends like him are not that easy to find. Tight end is one of the slowest developing positions for rookies, so it would be difficult to fill the role in the draft. And I'm not really aware of any other veterans who would be suitable and are due to hit FA. Teams tend to lock those guys up because they're inexpensive and valuable. Maybe there are options that I'm not aware of. I'm certainly not sitting up at night watching blocking tight ends around the league.
 

Dantés

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Tonyan was on the Pat McAfee Show yesterday talking about what an important mentor Lewis has been for him too.
 

Dantés

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Also if you go back and watch Aaron Jones' big run to seal the Eagles game, you will notice that when he hits the hole, Lewis is ruining some 2nd level defender's life.
 

longtimefan

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Also if you go back and watch Aaron Jones' big run to seal the Eagles game, you will notice that when he hits the hole, Lewis is ruining some 2nd level defender's life.
Baktiarhi...16 mph..flash
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El Guapo

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I agree that this is not a complete TE group next season, but I think that it will be enough for LeFluer to work with, assuming that this is Lewis' last season. The Packers will likely keep kicking the tires on lower tier FA tight ends and maybe draft one with a low pick while focusing on other draft needs.
 

tynimiller

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The Packers will likely keep kicking the tires on lower tier FA tight ends and maybe draft one with a low pick while focusing on other draft needs.

Cara Angeline is one of those Day 3 type guys to keep track of.
 

lambeaulambo

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First of all he's not a mercedes, he is a tug boat. Secondly, Rodgers loves him and they are the same age, I say keep him around as you can never have too many blocking TE2 or 3's. Besides - no one ever expects him to be targeted which adds some value as tugger has decent hands.
 
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