2019 Combine Thread

[Dantés]

What analysis? "That one sucks, the other is ok and the other is meh"? That really isn't much in the way of an analysis is it? I can read that on the wall in a toilet stall.

Honestly, I wasn't looking for, asking for or really care what your analysis/opinion of the 3 Badger lineman are at this point. I was merely responding to a poster who said their combine numbers weren't very impressive. You decided to jump in, tell everyone how annoying Badger Homers are and that Edwards sucks. When someone leads off their opinion in that sort of way, I've already stopped listening.

Most metrics are irrelevant for offensive line. However, the agility drills have proven to be good predictors for the Packers.

For what it's worth, Deiter came within spitting distance of the agility thresholds that have traditionally been kind to the Packers (4.75 in the SS and 7.75 in the 3C) at 4.81 and 7.88 respectively. If their FO loved his game on tape, I wouldn't imagine that discrepancy being a deal breaker (especially as Gutekunst seems willing to bend the rules in ways that TT was not).

Edwards basically hit them with a 4.77 and 7.69.

Benzschawel didn't do the agility drills.

 

[GleefulGary]

Oooooooh weeeee!

Brian Burns broad jump was 129" at 250 lbs. Shows he's still really explosive with the weight gain! That's gonna put him in above the 90th percentile for edge rushers. Huge mark!

 

[GleefulGary]

Oooooooh weeeee!

Brian Burns broad jump was 129" at 250 lbs. Shows he's still really explosive with the weight gain! That's gonna put him in above the 90th percentile for edge rushers. Huge mark!

Ran a 4.56 at 250 pounds. Clearly the weight gain didn't hinder any explosion lol.

Don't have a 10 yard time unfortunately, and that's more important.

He might not be there at 12.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rashan Gary ran a 4.6! What a freak.

And Ed Oliver had a 36" vert at 287 pounds.

Absolutely unreal, phenomenal DL class.

 

[GleefulGary]

Montez Sweat just ran a 4.42 with a 1.55 10 yard split which is incredibly good and shocking. Dude is 260 pounds! I was not expecting that at all. Excited to see his 3-cone, which matters more imo.

Chase Winovich ran a 4.6, which is also really surprising.

Polite had a disappointing time, imo. Based on his tape I'd expect him to have a good 3-cone though.

 

[GleefulGary]

For a 3-4 team, give me Brian Burns over Montez Sweat.

Burns is an incredibly natural and fluid athlete.

 

[GleefulGary]

Devin Bush is more athletic and a better player on the field than Devin White??

I hate to brag...but I told y'all.

 

[GleefulGary]

Brandon's boy Pratt is showing out too.

Good day 2/3 option.

 

[GleefulGary]

Devin White ran a 4.42

Good.

I want him off the board before we pick.


Murray, Haskins, White, Sweat, Metcalf, and maybe Lock will all be off the board before we pick. That's good news.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm firmly on the Do Not Draft Jachai Polite board.

 

[GleefulGary]

Murray, Bosa, Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Haskins, Metcalf, Montez Sweat, Jawaan Taylor, Devin White.

Those are 9 players I'm pretty confident will go ahead of us. I'm hoping Drew Lock will join that group.

Anyways, 9 guys. That leaves us with:

Jonah Williams
Andre Dillard
Brian Burns
Ed Oliver
Rashan Gary

Who knows else am I missing from potential selections at 12? One could add Hockenson, but I'm not confident I would because of positional value and such. I think that's a good group of 5 to pick from.

Jonah Williams would look awfully nice in Green and Gold...

 

[Dantés]

Murray, Bosa, Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Haskins, Metcalf, Montez Sweat, Jawaan Taylor, Devin White.

Those are 9 players I'm pretty confident will go ahead of us. I'm hoping Drew Lock will join that group.

Anyways, 9 guys. That leaves us with:

Jonah Williams
Andre Dillard
Brian Burns
Ed Oliver
Rashan Gary

Who knows else am I missing from potential selections at 12? One could add Hockenson, but I'm not confident I would because of positional value and such. I think that's a good group of 5 to pick from.

Jonah Williams would look awfully nice in Green and Gold...

Get Brian Burns out of there, ya pansy.

 

[GleefulGary]

Get Brian Burns out of there, ya pansy.

I will not.

His tape and testing shows a top flight edge. He's a take at 12.

 

[Dantés]

Chase Winovich really put himself in the conversation today. He's had the label of being a sub-optimal athlete who just puts in a ton of effort (shocker).

6'3" 256

4.59 forty

6.94 3 cone

4.11 short shuttle

116" broad jump

 

[Dantés]

I will not.

His tape and testing shows a top flight edge. He's a take at 12.

His testing is great. His tape shows the same finesse that got people to buy into Leonard Floyd, Dion Jordan, Aaron Maybin, Keke Mingo, and Manny Lawson. He ain't it.

 

[GleefulGary]

His testing is great. His tape shows the same finesse that got people to buy into Leonard Floyd, Dion Jordan, Aaron Maybin, Keke Mingo, and Manny Lawson. He ain't it.

One might imagine gaining 20+ pounds (while keeping impressive athleticism) would only help with his strength issues, yeah? Polite was fine at 242, but Burns can't play when he shows up at 249?

And yes, some guys with finesse don't turn out well. Some guys with finesse do.

 

[Dantés]

One might imagine gaining 20+ pounds (while keeping impressive athleticism) would only help with his strength issues, yeah? Polite was fine at 242, but Burns can't play when he shows up at 249?

And yes, some guys with finesse don't turn out well. Some guys with finesse do.

Well no. Polite wasn't fine. I had misgivings about how he struggled at the POA. But I could at least find comps for his style that worked in the league. I can't find that for Burns.

Give me the successful Burns comps.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm firmly on the Do Not Draft Jachai Polite board.

I was there months ago.

 

[GleefulGary]

Well no. Polite wasn't fine. I had misgivings about how he struggled at the POA. But I could at least find comps for his style that worked in the league. I can't find that for Burns.

Give me the successful Burns comps.

I mean, do you want comps on his size/athleticism? Comps on his style of play? Because those are all different things. Plenty of finesse pass rushers have succeeded in the NFL. Danielle Hunter profiled similarly to Burns athleticism, and size. Leonard Floyd is another, but Floyd never played anything like Burns, so is that a fair comparison? I don't really think so.

I think one reason finesse rushers have a hard time in the NFL is that they've only succeeded in college because of their speed. No counter moves, obviously no bull rush, plain old no variety. Burns actually showed a plan, and a decent amount of counter moves. I think that matters. The kid was succeeding as a true freshman in college at 215 pounds as a pass rusher. He only played his junior year at 227. Now he comes to the combine and he's 250, but kept his athleticism. He finally gets to train like a professional, and his body changes...that's major! And reportedly NFL teams believe that he can keep that weight. Personally, I think he can get to 260 on his frame. Look at his wingspan compared to his arm length. Arm length a little above average, wingspan 95th percentile. What does that mean? Means he's got wide shoulders...means he has the frame to add weight.

I see a guy who in field testing looked like an incredibly fluid athlete. Heck, he looked like an off ball LB. I see a guy who did an ok job at setting the edge for being 227 lbs. Why wouldn't I expect him to do better there at a higher weight with more strength? He did nothing but improve his stock because he showed up better than expected.

Now how would I use him? I'd use him in a similar way to Josh Allen, tbh. Mike Pettine loves versatility, and Burns has the ability to be versatile. Why couldn't he drop into coverage? He's a guy where you can find different ways to make him win. He'll probably never be great at setting the edge, and quite frankly, I don't care. He can be ok at it, and with his pass rushing skills, that's good enough. And don't forget, he doesn't turn 21 until a day or two before the draft. He's still young and developing.

I'm not saying he should be the clear cut guy at 12, just that he should be in the conversation.

 

[Dantés]

I mean, do you want comps on his size/athleticism? Comps on his style of play? Because those are all different things. Plenty of finesse pass rushers have succeeded in the NFL. Danielle Hunter profiled similarly to Burns athleticism, and size. Leonard Floyd is another, but Floyd never played anything like Burns, so is that a fair comparison? I don't really think so.

I think one reason finesse rushers have a hard time in the NFL is that they've only succeeded in college because of their speed. No counter moves, obviously no bull rush, plain old no variety. Burns actually showed a plan, and a decent amount of counter moves. I think that matters. The kid was succeeding as a true freshman in college at 215 pounds as a pass rusher. He only played his junior year at 227. Now he comes to the combine and he's 250, but kept his athleticism. He finally gets to train like a professional, and his body changes...that's major! And reportedly NFL teams believe that he can keep that weight. Personally, I think he can get to 260 on his frame. Look at his wingspan compared to his arm length. Arm length a little above average, wingspan 95th percentile. What does that mean? Means he's got wide shoulders...means he has the frame to add weight.

I see a guy who in field testing looked like an incredibly fluid athlete. Heck, he looked like an off ball LB. I see a guy who did an ok job at setting the edge for being 227 lbs. Why wouldn't I expect him to do better there at a higher weight with more strength? He did nothing but improve his stock because he showed up better than expected.

Now how would I use him? I'd use him in a similar way to Josh Allen, tbh. Mike Pettine loves versatility, and Burns has the ability to be versatile. Why couldn't he drop into coverage? He's a guy where you can find different ways to make him win. He'll probably never be great at setting the edge, and quite frankly, I don't care. He can be ok at it, and with his pass rushing skills, that's good enough. And don't forget, he doesn't turn 21 until a day or two before the draft. He's still young and developing.

I'm not saying he should be the clear cut guy at 12, just that he should be in the conversation.

I want a successful comp of a guy who lacked a power element in his game.

 

[Mondio]

you guys just make sure Gute picks the right one.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is how is see Burns. He reminds me of a slightly smaller version of last years Marcus Davenport, who was also all over the board. The Saints reached a little there and went for high ceiling, low floor at #14 (our original pick if you recall) Davenport would likely get picked slightly before Burns going head to head in a draft IMO.

This year‘s a funny animal, much better Defensive talent at the top and better choices deeper down the board. Of course you have to consider the change in strength at varying positions compared to last year. (Lesser QBs this year but better WR this year etc..) Burns will likely get picked in the second half of round 1. As low as#10 and as high as #25.

While he did himself justice putting on weight which is exactly what I thought he should do, he got himself squarely into round 1. (Previously he was being mocked 1-2) Personally I wouldn’t pick him for us unless he was still there at #20 range. Such as in my trade back scenario..where we go twice inside #20

 

[GleefulGary]

I want a successful comp of a guy who lacked a power element in his game.

Coming out of college?

Cam Wake
Kabeer Gbja-Biamila
Dwight Freeney
Vic Beasley


Now answer me this: he's gained 20 pounds. NFL teams believe he can keep that. His frame suggests that he can add more weight. After gaining those 20 pounds, wouldn't one think that he would naturally be more powerful in his game? I know personally waaaaay back in the day when I played, gaining 20 pounds certainly changed the way I was able to play by quite a bit. Anecdotal, but you get the point.

 

[OldSchool101]

I wanted to clarify before I say this. I’ve been a Burns fan since last year and he’s been on my radar because I thought he was undervalued after some initial research on prospects. I’ve seen various mocks that had him as low as 3rd round and others as a late First Day. A short time later, I initially thought we might steal him at #44 and I kinda just knew he was a top 40 guy.

That said. I figured if he could put on 10–15 pounds it wouldn’t affect his speed too much .05-.10 range because he was already ahead of the curve there. He put on closer to 20 lb. and ran essentially the same 40 time so that’s huge. That got him massive attention and now I believe they’ve been overcompensating him into the top 10 out of initial excitement.

He’s a baller. But he’s not top 10 or 12 for that matter. Top 20? Maybe and depending how the board falls on draft day. He should go #16-#22ish and he’s earned that through his brilliant planning and execution. Honestly I hope he goes top #10 because that’ll mean a true top 10 guy is there to pluck at #12. Id much much rather have Montez Sweat right now than Burns. If we take a chance on a slightly undersized D player give me Rashan Gary

 

[Dantés]

Coming out of college?

Cam Wake
Kabeer Gbja-Biamila
Dwight Freeney
Vic Beasley


Now answer me this: he's gained 20 pounds. NFL teams believe he can keep that. His frame suggests that he can add more weight. After gaining those 20 pounds, wouldn't one think that he would naturally be more powerful in his game? I know personally waaaaay back in the day when I played, gaining 20 pounds certainly changed the way I was able to play by quite a bit. Anecdotal, but you get the point.

I think that's totally possible, but I'm not investing a 1st round pick in a guy based on the possibility that he might play stronger with added weight, that he may or may not keep on. We've only seen him play football built like a stork.