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What Responsibility Should the GM Take For Injuries?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Mike Vandermause is no friend of Ted Thompson, in fact he might be Bus Cook's alter ego. In one of his latest articles (http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131114/PKR07/311140406), he claims that the defensive woes should fall on Capers shoulders, but on TT's. He goes on to show how most of TT's defensive picks aren't paying off. His biggest evidence was the 2012 draft in which Perry, Worthy, and Heyward have been mostly injured and McMillan hasn't progressed. He clearly blames TT for not providing good horses for Capers.

    My question is: How much blame should a GM take for players that fail due to injury?

    In my opinion, a GM deserves total blame in a Justin Harrell situation, a guy with perpetual injuries in college that is hampered by them in the pros. However, I don't remember reading that Perry/Worthy/Heyward were injury concerns. How would a GM know? Is he just cursed, is it bad luck, or a mix of the two?
  2. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I don't think injuries can be completely blamed in the GM but I will say that injuries help highlight the lack of depth that the GM has provided for the team. When the season is done, all that matters are records. I'm not sure it's off base to say that the defensive players in last year's draft have been underwhelming overall.

    I think his main point is that people suddenly want Capers' head but they fail to realize that TT made a tremendous effort in the 2012 draft to get guys for a defense that was terrible in 2011. Those guys that TT drafted haven't contributed much. Hence the reason the improvement since 2011 isn't that strong.
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  3. rodell330
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    This is one of the few times i will let TT off the hook...this is on Capers and his sorry scheme. Yes the GM drafts players and fills out the roster but it's the coaches job to have them ready to play and to put them in the right position to be effective no matter who it is. TT gets the blame for not having a qb ready to step in when Rodgers went down and for us having a few overpriced backups taking up cap space.
  4. 13 Times Champs
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    I don't see how blame can be assigned to the GM for players having injuries unless he drafted them that way. He deserves no blame for the injuries to Perry, Hayward or Worthy. Hell, Hayward and Worthy played last year. None of them were damaged goods when TT bought them.
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  5. ARPackFan
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    If a GM keeps making stretches in the draft by picking up players based upon potential rather than performance then I think you can knock the GM. If the GM and scouting staff do their due diligence and draft healthy players that performed at the college level and their skill sets should transfer to the pros then I think the blame has to be on the coaching staff. I agree with El Guapo on this - Justin Harrell fiasco falls on Thompson's shoulders, the rest not so much. Too many players on defense are out of position & don't use good technique which have nothing to do with their physical gifts - The odds of Thompson being find theses guys over & over just doesn't appear credible. Either Thompson has drafted idiots that can't be coached or the coaching staff is failing to do their job.
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  6. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I would love to know what scheme would succeed with a poor pass rushing dline, injury depleted linebacking corps (missing the two best players at the position deemed most important in a 3-4) and a revolving door at one safety spot. TT shouldn't get the blame for guys getting injured. What he should be blamed for is not having anyone available that can step up when those injuries occur as well as supplying the defense with exactly one playmaker (two if you feel like including Collins). Our defense was very good in 2010 and then terrible in 2011 and 2012 when we lost some players that weren't replaced. In 2012 TT brought some guys (ok, a lot of guys) in via the draft to help the defense. It's not TT's fault that some of those guys were injured but expecting the defense to improve when the guys brought in to improve the defense aren't contributing seems irrational.
  7. El Guapo
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    I assume that you're talking in general about teams and GMs, because I think 98% of the world except Bus Cook thinks that the Packers have an incredible amount of depth overall as a team.
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  8. rodell330
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    Well in that case.... Fire TT!!! there ya go.
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  9. Forget Favre
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    I'm working on building a time machine myself.
    Now let's see.....
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  10. Forget Favre
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    Is TT out there playing and hitting them?
    It's ridiculous to be blaming TT for unpredictable things.
    Whoever blames TT for the injuries is really, really reaching.

    Here's a theory why we get so many injuries.
    We only get the young kids fresh off a college team. Only 3 players are vets with previous experience from other pro teams.
    And who are these kids going up against?
    Long term pros who have had a lot of time in the pros for strength, conditioning and coaching. Maybe they hit harder than college players since they have had a few more years in the weight room than the rookie they are going after. I don't know. But if they do, then that could be why we have all these injuries.
    If this theory was ever proven to be correct then perhaps it's time for TT to start looking for seasoned pros whose bodies have had more time to adjust to taking hit after hit after hit.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  11. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    What part of my statement did you read as a reason to fire TT. I specifically said that injuries weren't TT's fault. You can't however NOT blame TT for injuries and then blame Capers when those same injuries have deprived his defense of players.
  12. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    On offense? Yeah, sure. On defense, where do you see depth? After CM3 gets injured there's not a capable linebacker on the roster. Burnett is literally the only decent safety on the team and outside of Daniels we don't have a guy that can pressure the QB on the dline. We have some depth at corner but that's assuming Williams and Shields can play like they played last year.

    So, yeah, I question the "depth" of our defense. Please show me where I'm wrong.
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  13. El Guapo
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    You're wrong at defensive line, inside linebacker, and outside linebacker. You're right that there is depth at CB. Safety is the only position lacking depth.

    Unless you expect starting-quality depth at every position (which you seem to be desiring), the Packers defense actually improved when the backups started playing at linebacker. How does that support your argument?

    You don't think that Mike Neal is a capable linebacker? He's played pretty well.
  14. rodell330
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    I'll put it this way i've always thought TT was over-rated as a GM anyways but that's my opinion. Yes he drafted Clay Matthews and Aaron Rodgers blah blah blah but he will always have juice from what happened in 2010 which is why so many ppl give him a pass.
  15. Sunshinepacker
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    Our defense has one playmaker. One player that could be a Pro Bowler if he stayed healthy. How is that depth? You say our dline has depth? Please tell me the players ready to step up and play NT if Pickett is hurt. Our linebackers consist of Matthews and a bunch of guys. So yeah,I guess there's depth at linebacker because most of the linebackers aren't good enough to distinguish themselves.

    And Neal has had one good game at OLB, a couple poor games and some below average games. That's not a very good ratio.
  16. 13 Times Champs
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    I can't figure out what this thread is about. Is it TT is responsible for injuries, He doesn't draft well and should be fired or Capers should be fired???:confused:

    I AGREE WITH THE LATER. :)
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  17. FrankRizzo
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    BINGO /Thread
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  18. Forget Favre
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    We were OK up until Rodgers was hurt.
  19. Shawnsta3
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    This theory has me intrigued. What about 2011 though? An anomaly?
  20. Forget Favre
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    I'll have to let someone else take that one.
    My theory was just based on a knee jerk reaction.
  21. JBlood
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    I blame the injuries on football. Harrell broke an ankle and tore his biceps tendon at Tennessee--does that make him "injury prone"? He re-ruptures the biceps, gets a herniated disc, and finally destroys his knee and is out of football. How would anyone predict that? As far as the defensive personnel is concerned, it's easier to change the coordinator than it is to replace the roster; but I doubt there's a coordinator in the league that can win with injuries to Neal, Perry, Jones, Jones, Matthews, Burnett, Pickett, Jolly, Hayward, Shields, Francois, Worthy. The game has become a war of attrition, and we're losing it right now.
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  22. 7thFloorRA
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    I think they are both at fault.

    Capers will live and die with what worked for him in the past and seems to refuse to evolve or change what he does. He did go to school with the defense over the offense to stop the read option but I think he was told to take care of that.

    TT needs to can the BPA crap if he is drafting d-lineman or backers for a 3-4. Drafting Perry was stupid, just like it was stupid for the bears to draft shea to run the 4-3. He also sets him self up to almost have to hit 75 percent of the time on his picks because he refuses to use free agency thus removing a large talent pool that other teams have available to them. Drafting guys with extensive injury histories like Harrell is mindless as well. Aside from the offense I am still livid that he didn't resign Crabtree. You don't have to drag kuhn out there to block with him out there and you don't have to put useless Ryan Taylor out there either.
  23. ThxJackVainisi
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    But we’ve seen him evolve and you even mention one example. And he’s done so beyond just learning to stop the read option. It may be time for Capers to go but not because he hasn't "evolved".
    IMO there is ample evidence Thompson doesn’t use “BPA”; instead he uses best value available. And how would Perry have done if he never got seriously injured? His acquisition allowed them to put Matthews on his preferred side. As a prospect Perry was big and athletic and well suited for the SOLB IMO.
    If Rodgers hadn’t gotten injured and the Packers were still leading the division, would you be posting the same thing? Of course not. So IMO that one event has you, and others overreacting.
    “Like” Harrell? OK, name all the others Thompson drafted in the early rounds who had similar injury histories. BTW, I disagree with JBlood: I believe Harrell’s injury history went back to high school.
    “Livid” about not keeping Crabtree? Wow. So he’s the difference between their current record and what? Again, if Rodgers didn’t get injured, how important would Crabtree be? IMO this is just one of many emotional overreactions by Packers fans who justifiably had high hopes which have been dashed, at least for the time being, by the Rodgers’ injury.
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  24. SpartaChris
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    Name a better GM in the game that's had his team in contention almost every single year.

    I'll wait.
  25. HardRightEdge
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    John Schneider.

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