Stealers are AFC: So what?

[TheSnowPlow]

and wins them championships. Cheating isn't new to the NFL. Lombardi was paranoid about Bear's spies at their practices.

So was Paul Brown - that guy used to shut down practices when planes or helicopters flew overhead.

Once he saw a glint of light from a nearby hotel, checked it out and found out a scout from another team was renting the room by the hours whenever his team was practicing. He used to hold meetings in closets, check sidelines and locker rooms for bugs etc... and this was back in the early 60s - the book Paper Lion is a hell of a read.

Football coaches are a paranoid, and strange bunch. :rotfl:

 

[Preacher]

Well, then tell us what it was for. And please back it up with links - ProFootballTalk gossip section doesn't count.

Sure, no problem.

NEW YORK -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

Belichick draws $500,000 fine, but avoids suspension - NFL - ESPN

It wasn't for an "improperly placed camera". It was for placing a camera, and DELIBERATELY videotaping the defensive signals of another team in order to cheat.

Also, notice that it is a "Long Standing Rule," least that is what Good-deal said.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Sure, no problem.



Belichick draws $500,000 fine, but avoids suspension - NFL - ESPN

It wasn't for an "improperly placed camera". It was for placing a camera, and DELIBERATELY videotaping the defensive signals of another team in order to cheat.

Also, notice that it is a "Long Standing Rule," least that is what Good-deal said.

Stealing defensive signals wasn't ever against the rules. Ever. Still isn't.

 

[LombardiChick]

Sure, no problem.



Belichick draws $500,000 fine, but avoids suspension - NFL - ESPN

It wasn't for an "improperly placed camera". It was for placing a camera, and DELIBERATELY videotaping the defensive signals of another team in order to cheat.

Also, notice that it is a "Long Standing Rule," least that is what Good-deal said.

Maybe you need to read the links to the NFL Constitution and Bylaws that I posted above. That rule was as clear as mud, and open to interpretation - AND it contradicted the memo that BB was said to be in violation of.

I think you know less about this than you think you do.

 

[Preacher]

sigh cant we all just admit that the steelers since the merger have been unstoppable

Nope, since the merger, they were unstoppable except by injury in the 70's.

In the 80's, well, they could have been stopped by a peewee team for the most part.

In the 90's, they were a very strong team, had no clue how to actually play for a win in the playoffs. Hence, 5 or so AFCCG losses.

In the 00's, we will skip the first half due to a Pats* fan's sensibilities... and look at the latter half.

05 SB, we simply got on a role the last part of the season.

Nothing special about 06,07, or 09. 08 and 10 however, seem to be something different.

Not sure who ever said we have been unstoppable since the merger. After all, any Steelers fan (who isn't a banwagon fan) still has psychological scaring due to the string of QB's from Mark Malone to Maddox.

Malone
Brister
O'Donnell
Kordell Stewart.

yeah, only an idiot would call a team with those QB's unstoppable :Heristical:

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Actually, you'll skip the first half of the 00s because your were beaten by a better team a few times in the playoffs. Not because of my sensibilities.

 

[Preacher]

Stealing defensive signals wasn't ever against the rules. Ever. Still isn't.

True,

But stealing them by using video tape... is. Or um, did I just make up the $500,000 fine and loss of a draft pick?




And as for it being "Murky" or "unclear". They were caught doing the EXACT same thing before, and told that is WAS illegal. Not sure how much clearer it can be.

as for the memo- Unclear? How can this be unclear:

Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

And of course, this was sent out because they were ALREADY CAUGHT doing it the year before.

Funny thing, that is ALL in the one link-and all quotes league reps.

So, either the league reps and espn is lying, which means that everything is so murky that it can't be understood (Hmm, like the leading with the helment/tackling rules and Harrison???) or it was quite clear, and Pats* fans still don't want to admit it.

Kind of hard to accept any other call than that.

By the way, Packers fans... Your own ball club agrees with me on this issue.

The Patriots have been caught once before. Last November, during their 35-0 victory in Green Bay, the Packers caught Estrella shooting unauthorized video and told him to stop.

Hence, the sending out of the memo and the punishment the second time they broke the rules.

Funny thing.. it is ALL in the one link I offered.

 

[Preacher]

Actually, you'll skip the first half of the 00s because your were beaten by a better team a few times in the playoffs. Not because of my sensibilities.

Naa,

I don't consider being beaten by one of these

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

as a real loss.

 

[LombardiChick]

“Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

Why are you ignoring the NFL's own governing document, and opting only to consider the memo?

 

[LombardiChick]

Actually, you'll skip the first half of the 00s because your were beaten by a better team a few times in the playoffs. Not because of my sensibilities.

I think they just don't like you kicking their ***** all over Heinz. That's what I think. I don't see a jersey on that camera, do you? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Again, the "memo" conflicted with the NFL by-laws. But frankly, I'm tired of arguing with a Patriot-hater who feels they were cheated out of their rightful Super Bowls.

I hope you choke on your hatred, and it eats you up inside knowing that no matter how much you hate, no matter how much you cry about it, no matter how much you call the Pats cheaters, and use your little * bullcrap, those Super Bowls will remqin ours. Period.

Oh, you still never answered about your team doctor two years ago buying 150,000 dollars worth of HGH, nor the loss of draft picks for salary cap violations. Cheater.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

I think they just don't like you kicking their ***** all over Heinz. That's what I think. I don't see a jersey on that camera, do you? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

It's always nice watching the Pats play in Gillette West. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You have to understand - no one ever beats tbe Steelers. Either the Steelers "beat themselves", "the refs screwed them", "the league didn't want them to win", or "the other team cheated". No one ever beats the Steelers... Errr I mean the HGH-using, salary cap-violating cheaters.

 

[Steeler Tim]

Again, the "memo" conflicted with the NFL by-laws. But frankly, I'm tired of arguing with a Patriot-hater who feels they were cheated out of their rightful Super Bowls.

I hope you choke on your hatred, and it eats you up inside knowing that no matter how much you hate, no matter how much you cry about it, no matter how much you call the Pats cheaters, and use your little * bullcrap, those Super Bowls will remqin ours. Period.

Oh, you still never answered about your team doctor two years ago buying 150,000 dollars worth of HGH, nor the loss of draft picks for salary cap violations. Cheater.

I must admit I never heard of the salary cap violation. It looks like we did it and were punished for it. I can admit when my team does something wrong. Why can't you admit that yours has?

As for the doctor ... he wasn't 'The Team Doctor". He was a consultant on the staff. He had his own vibrant practice where he dealt with elderly patients. The drugs were treatment for these patients. It was fully investigated and nothing ever came of it. The drugs were all accounted for ... none were prescribed to Steelers.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

I must admit I never heard of the salary cap violation. It looks like we did it and were punished for it. I can admit when my team does something wrong. Why can't you admit that yours has?

As for the doctor ... he wasn't 'The Team Doctor". He was a consultant on the staff. He had his own vibrant practice where he dealt with elderly patients. The drugs were treatment for these patients. It was fully investigated and nothing ever came of it. The drugs were all accounted for ... none were prescribed to Steelers.

Well, it gave you just as much of a competitive advantage as the camera did for us, then.

I admit - my coach did wrong. He violated a memo that conflicted with league rules on camera placement and usage - the lague by-laws say one thing, the memo says another. Our coach made a wrong decision based on interpreti g what he could and could not do. That doesn't equate with cheating. It doesn't taint our seasons.

 

[LombardiChick]

I must admit I never heard of the salary cap violation. It looks like we did it and were punished for it. I can admit when my team does something wrong. Why can't you admit that yours has?

As for the doctor ... he wasn't 'The Team Doctor". He was a consultant on the staff. He had his own vibrant practice where he dealt with elderly patients. The drugs were treatment for these patients. It was fully investigated and nothing ever came of it. The drugs were all accounted for ... none were prescribed to Steelers.

Hey Tim, do you have any idea why this doctor seemed to have been running his own "pharmacy", and not just writing prescriptions instead? That strikes me as odd, but maybe there's an explanation for it.

I didn't know they used that stuff to treat elderly people, but maybe that's 'cause I'm not elderly...yet.

 

[Preacher]

Again, the "memo" conflicted with the NFL by-laws. But frankly, I'm tired of arguing with a Patriot-hater who feels they were cheated out of their rightful Super Bowls.

I hope you choke on your hatred, and it eats you up inside knowing that no matter how much you hate, no matter how much you cry about it, no matter how much you call the Pats cheaters, and use your little * bullcrap, those Super Bowls will remqin ours. Period.

Oh, you still never answered about your team doctor two years ago buying 150,000 dollars worth of HGH, nor the loss of draft picks for salary cap violations. Cheater.

Hate? Nope. Don't care enough to hate. I feel sorry for some of our players that sat there on the field questioning how the Pats* were calling out of their sets even as the Steelers were just moving into theirs (and hadn't displayed them yet). But as far as the SBs? Naa, My life is too full to really care. Just like to see people actually face up to what happened is all.

As for the doc? Funny thing about that. It was all about HGH- Not about making muscles grow bigger or stronger, it was about healing injuries-and if you read a little about the doctor, and HGH, numerous team were sending RETIRED players to him because he was conducting off-label trials (unofficial, which is probably what got him fired from his job at the medical center) with HGH-injecting it directly into joints and cartilage.

Gotta wonder, why neither the FBI (multi-state investigation) DEA (off-label use IS illegal, hence, a DEA issue) never pursued it, when it all came to light in a Balco type drug raid in Florida. Nor did the NFL pursue it with the STeelers. Guess, its because there was absolutely no link-

Or, does the NFL fine teams for doing things that aren't illegal, and standby and allow things that are to pass on bye?

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Doesn't matter about the doctor. I'll just go with sensationalized media reports about it when it happened, and believe what I want to believe about it instead, like people seem to do with "spygate". All it needs is a catchy -gate name and stuff.

Cuz we all know that the sports media would never sensationalize stuff about players and teams and stuff and make things seem worse and/or different than they are or anything.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Ok, Preacher - now I knkw you're lying. Your players never said that the pats were calling out their defensive sets before they set up. 100% ********. All that was ever said was "the pats seemed to know what we were gonna do" when they looked at the defensive formation. Then, like any other veteran offensive line, they'll determine who the "mike" is, determine where they believe the blitz is coming from, what type of coverage it is, etc and adjust the offensive plays at the the line as appropriate to get the best matchups possible.

None of your players claimed anything else.

You're a joke.

 

[Preacher]

“Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

Why are you ignoring the NFL's own governing document, and opting only to consider the memo?

I'm not. Ever wonder how Pats* teams would come out after halftime and all of a sudden take over games?

Furthermore, I worked in the business world for a good time-and WHENEVER we wanted to clarify a point, we didn't go to the original governing documents, but to the latest interpretation of them, which, oddly enough, were memo's.

So, if you want to know HOW or WHY something is illegal, you go to the last official communication about it... which is this case, was the memo, clarifying the governing document.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

And read what Bill Cowher - a man who was "victimized" by the mean cheating cheaters who cheat - had to say about it. I'll even give you a Steeler Homer site link so you'll be comfortable:

Bill Cowher says the Pats are the team of the decade [Archive] - Steeler Nation

 

[Preacher]

Ok, Preacher - now I knkw you're lying. Your players never said that the pats were calling out their defensive sets before they set up. 100% ********. All that was ever said was "the pats seemed to know what we were gonna do" when they looked at the defensive formation. Then, like any other veteran offensive line, they'll determine who the "mike" is, determine where they believe the blitz is coming from, what type of coverage it is, etc and adjust the offensive plays at the the line as appropriate to get the best matchups possible.

None of your players claimed anything else.

You're a joke.

Hmm.

Oh, they knew," Ward said Wednesday. "They were calling our stuff out. They knew, especially that first championship game here at Heinz Field. They knew a lot of our calls. There's no question some of their players were calling out some of our stuff."

The original link is broken, but teh article was reposted in a forum here. I will look for the original link, as well as the quote I posted above.

Here we go, found a neutral site. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20748384/

 

[LombardiChick]

I'm not. Ever wonder how Pats* teams would come out after halftime and all of a sudden take over games?

Furthermore, I worked in the business world for a good time-and WHENEVER we wanted to clarify a point, we didn't go to the original governing documents, but to the latest interpretation of them, which, oddly enough, were memo's.

So, if you want to know HOW or WHY something is illegal, you go to the last official communication about it... which is this case, was the memo, clarifying the governing document.

I already said I think it was appropriate to punish the Patriots for ignoring the memo - and I do - but as for how "they would come out after halftime and all of a sudden take over games", it's not all that uncommon for teams to do that, after they make adjustments.

It doesn't mean they're watching an illegally-obtained tape, does it?

If that's the standard, I could speculate that you had watched an illegally-obtained tape prior to your comeback in the AFCCG, couldn't I?

But I wouldn't.

 

[Preacher]

I already said I think it was appropriate to punish the Patriots for ignoring the memo - and I do - but as for how "they would come out after halftime and all of a sudden take over games", it's not all that uncommon for teams to do that, after they make adjustments.

It doesn't mean they're watching an illegally-obtained tape, does it?

If that's the standard, I could speculate that you had watched an illegally-obtained tape prior to your comeback in the AFCCG, couldn't I?

But I wouldn't.

No, but if that was consistant, AND, we never lost to the same team twice in a row, AND, we were caught with a video tape of the hand signals from the other team,

Then, you should give it serious consideration.

 

[TheSnowPlow]

Hmm.

The original link is broken, but teh article was reposted in a forum here. I will look for the original link, as well as the quote I posted above.

Here we go, found a neutral site. Steelers' Ward: Pats had help in '02 title game - NFL- NBC Sports

Now I know that you know qbsolutely **** about football when it comes to how O and D lines operate at a low level.

Also, Hines Ward is an offensive player - he wouldnt be on the field to hear our offense calling out defensive formations that we would have gleaned from defensive signals - defensive signals are what tells the defense on the field what to do against the offense on the field.

Ward would not be on the field when our offense is. :rotfl:

 

[Preacher]

Ok, Preacher - now I knkw you're lying. Your players never said that the pats were calling out their defensive sets before they set up. 100% ********. All that was ever said was "the pats seemed to know what we were gonna do" when they looked at the defensive formation. Then, like any other veteran offensive line, they'll determine who the "mike" is, determine where they believe the blitz is coming from, what type of coverage it is, etc and adjust the offensive plays at the the line as appropriate to get the best matchups possible.

None of your players claimed anything else.

You're a joke.

BTW,

Um, I have refrained from personal comments towards you. A little class back would be appreciated.