Preseason Game #2: Packers at Ravens

[Mondio]

yes, trading for a 2nd round QB means they just don't care about it

where do you need to pick to draft a "real QB" in your opinion? Nobody is happy with the skill level of a Hundley, or Kizer, well not nobody. So how many picks are you giving up next year to draft your "real QB" which is what started this discussion.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Spending picks to move up in a draft to get a "real QB" goes against everything they've just done.

If god forbid Rodgers is lost for the 2019 or 2020 season, the Packers might not actually have to do anything to "move up" in the draft, they actually could be at the top of the heap.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Like I said to Mondio, I don't think it's over reacting to have a conversation as to "When do you draft #12's successor?". While I agree that it shouldn't be done too early, I also wouldn't want to see it attempted too late. I also think, just like Rodgers back in 2005, if the opportunity presents itself, the Packers might take it from any future draft forward.

As I've mentioned repeatedly the 2021 draft is the first one the Packers should start looking for Rodgers successor. If Lawrence drops to the 32nd pick for whatever reason it's time to pull the trigger

Thinking of singing a guy now to sit for 3 or 4 years? He'll be up for a contract by the time he's supposed to take over.

The Packers would have the benefit of the fifth year option using a first round pick on a quarterback replacing Rodgers at some point.

 

[Mondio]

Which they’d likely use on a Position like a Tackle to protect who ever is in there for the next 8 years over a QB you hope to not have to play for at least 5 more years

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which they’d likely use on a Position like a Tackle to protect who ever is in there for the next 8 years over a QB you hope to not have to play for at least 5 more years

The fifth year option isn't significantly cheaper for a tackle. It is for a quarterback though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have to repeat, this isn't about finding a QB that will be ready to jump in and start in 2020 or even in 2021 and maybe not even 2022. It's about timing when you obtain that next guy, so that he does have a few years to develop and work behind one of the greatest QB's of all time. For all we know, had the Broncos not selected Drew Lock with the 42nd pick this year, we would have used the 44th pick on him. Personally, I wouldn't have been happy with that, but if Rodgers has an injury filled 2019 and it happened in next years draft, I would understand that the wheels have been put in motion.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I have to repeat, this isn't about finding a QB that will be ready to jump in and start in 2020 or even in 2021 and maybe not even 2022. It's about timing when you obtain that next guy, so that he does have a few years to develop and work behind one of the greatest QB's of all time.

I agree with your approach but in my opinion the 2020 draft is at least a year early. If the opportunity doesn't present itself in 2021 there's no reason to force it as a talented quarterback who will succeed Rodgers doesn't have to sit behind #12 for three seasons to develop into an elite one.

 

[Mondio]

I have to repeat, this isn't about finding a QB that will be ready to jump in and start in 2020 or even in 2021 and maybe not even 2022. It's about timing when you obtain that next guy, so that he does have a few years to develop and work behind one of the greatest QB's of all time. For all we know, had the Broncos not selected Drew Lock with the 42nd pick this year, we would have used the 44th pick on him. Personally, I wouldn't have been happy with that, but if Rodgers has an injury filled 2019 and it happened in next years draft, I would understand that the wheels have been put in motion.

And I have to repeat, THIS was about someone saying we need a "real QB" and maybe as soon as 2020 draft. That's the next one. That's what started all of this. Yes, it's ideal to have someone learn before taking over. What does it take to draft a "real QB" nobody is happy with Kizer and he was a 2nd rounder. You thing drafting Lock was the answer? 2nd round is high enough to get a competent backup and eventual replacement? maybe, but then we have one of those right now. we know a 5th rounder is no good like Hundley, even though i wouldn't be surprised if at some point he's starting over the #1 "real QB" taken in this draft this year.

This isn't about all the options available, heck i've said it many times, if you think the next Rodgers is sitting right there at your pick, you take him. Since that happens once every 5-10 drafts maybe you get close to that i find it highly unlikely to be the situation we'll be in. It was about saying we need a real qb to be serious about the back up and maybe next year.

So what are you giving up after just investing huge dollars in the man to find his back up? 2nd rounders and 5th rounder development guys arne't good enough, so what gets us a real qb?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with your approach but in my opinion the 2020 draft is at least a year early. If the opportunity doesn't present itself in 2021 there's no reason to force it as a talented quarterback who will succeed Rodgers doesn't have to sit behind #12 for three seasons to develop into an elite one.

I fully agree that the 2020 draft might be too early, but I reserve the right to change that opinion after the 2019 season is completed. We might just see the Packers take another 3rd-5th round stab at a QB they like next draft. Or, they just wait a few seasons, depending on Rodgers and go all in on someone like Trevor Lawrence in 2021.

 

[PackerDNA]

At this time- barring injury or something else- there will be no chance of getting Trevor Lawrence unless you have the #1 overall pick.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So what are you giving up after just investing huge dollars in the man to find his back up? 2nd rounders and 5th rounder development guys arne't good enough, so what gets us a real qb?

There is no sure fire formula for success. You can get a Brady in the 6th or a JaMarcus Russell with the very first pick. But i think your odds of landing a potentially great QB go up, the higher the draft investment. What the Packers are willing to use in the next 1-4 drafts on a QB will fully depend on need and their evaluations of Rodgers, as well as the QB's available in each draft. If they see who they think will be the next #12 sitting on the board, they may take him. If Rodgers is healthy and playing well, they may not select a QB until the 2022 draft.

You may find it odd to talk about, given what Rodgers was just signed to a year ago, but I don't think Rodgers himself or any of the Packers staff would be offended by an open dialogue of "what happens in the future at the most important position on the team."

 

[Deleted member 6794]

At this time- barring injury or something else- there will be no chance of getting Trevor Lawrence unless you have the #1 overall pick.

You're most likely right about that although Rodgers wasn't expected to drop to the 24th pick either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

At this time- barring injury or something else- there will be no chance of getting Trevor Lawrence unless you have the #1 overall pick.

SOLD! If the Packers aren't going to win it all in 2020, I will suffer through a losing season to assure Lawrence is a Packer!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

SOLD! If the Packers aren't going to win it all in 2020, I will suffer through a losing season to assure Lawrence is a Packer!

The problem being that you won't know the Packers aren't going to win the Super Bowl in 2020 before it's too late to tank for Lawrence

 

[Mondio]

There is no sure fire formula for success. You can get a Brady in the 6th or a JaMarcus Russell with the very first pick. But i think your odds of landing a potentially great QB go up, the higher the draft investment. What the Packers are willing to use in the next 1-4 drafts on a QB will fully depend on need and their evaluations of Rodgers, as well as the QB's available in each draft. If they see who they think will be the next #12 sitting on the board, they may take him. If Rodgers is healthy and playing well, they may not select a QB until the 2022 draft.

You may find it odd to talk about, given what Rodgers was just signed to a year ago, but I don't think Rodgers himself or any of the Packers staff would be offended by an open dialogue of "what happens in the future at the most important position on the team."

I don't find it odd to talk about the future. But outside of the catastrophic happening, we aren't talking about a QB high in the draft for a number of years, yet we have some proposing we need to get a real qb to at least be a back up by next season. and outside of unforseen things, IF that is what position you think GB is in, why did we sign Rodgers to anything? Save the money, build the team, move on when it's time. I'd say from the actions, the thoughts inside 1265 are very different.

 

[gopkrs]

Talk of tanking is ... well it's too bad. I hope there can be some way of finding the culprits who do it and then making them pay. I'm talking about the teams, not the people on message boards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Talk of tanking is ... well it's too bad. I hope there can be some way of finding the culprits who do it and then making them pay. I'm talking about the teams, not the people on message boards.

Punishment was handed down to both of these girls Basketball teams. Neither of them wanted to win the game, because doing so matched them up against the best team in the State during the playoffs.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't find it odd to talk about the future. But outside of the catastrophic happening, we aren't talking about a QB high in the draft for a number of years, yet we have some proposing we need to get a real qb to at least be a back up by next season. and outside of unforseen things, IF that is what position you think GB is in, why did we sign Rodgers to anything? Save the money, build the team, move on when it's time. I'd say from the actions, the thoughts inside 1265 are very different.

I for one don't think we currently have a great #2 QB, but using our first rounder on one in one of the last 2 drafts wouldn't have been smart nor probably changed the talent level of our #2 QB, That guy would have just been an extra "non-player" to carry on the 53 and probably played out his first contract before Rodgers was ready to hang it up. So I am not in favor of using a high pick on a QB, until the window opens and you know that its time to start grooming #12's replacement. When is that time and how long will it take to get him ready? That I guess is to be determined and what you and I are kind of circling the drains with.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The problem being that you won't know the Packers aren't going to win the Super Bowl in 2020 before it's too late to tank for Lawrence

Something you don't know about me.....

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[Mondio]

Something you don't know about me.....

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we don't care about your "delicates"

 

[OldSchool101]

Something you don't know about me.....

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Help you I will

Pretty much the same thing you’ve been saying but I think we likely wing it (don’t invest much) for a successor QB until around 2021 or beyond. Then each successive year the emphasis on finding a replacement increases.

That said, if Rodgers plays a full season or two back to back and looks good? Like Brady, he could prove to be productive past even his current contract. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him play past 40 years old. The new age bar has been raised there by Tom Brady who could likely play effective into his mid 40’s.
If I were hypothesizing, I’ll say Rodgers is still suited up when he turns 40-41 years old. What saved him is 3 years on the bench.

PS. I’m not the least bit concerned if he doesn’t play preseason game #3. It’s unconventional, but he’s not the conventional type QB. I’d like to see him for 2-3 drives before regular season merely to shake the dust off.

 

[OldSchool101]

For all we know, had the Broncos not selected Drew Lock with the 42nd pick this year, we would have used the 44th pick on him. Personally, I wouldn't have been happy with that, but if Rodgers has an injury filled 2019 and it happened in next years draft, I would understand that the wheels have been put in motion.

And if Rodgers remained healthy it’s still a win-win. We likely get an upgrade (IMO Kizers been playing Hundley like...which is what you’d expect from a 5th round grade). But if Rodgers gets IRd. You’d have a better chance of winning a few games or staying playoffs relevant until he gets back, which is what the whole idea is of a #2 guy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You ALWAYS have a strong contingency at backup QB. Especially in contemporary football where the injury protocols keep players out for lengthy terms.

BTW? We also saw the exact reverse effects of what you are implying in the success of backup QBs who carried teams well into the playoffs. This isn’t a big secret. You never go in with blinders on and you always have a backup plan. That’s at any position too, but especially the QB position.

Now we can certainly argue about the resources or capital used to secure a contingency plan, but not one team in this league is thinking they don’t care about a backup QB or they’ll just call it a season if the #1 goes down. Conversely, they each are desperately trying to evaluate the best option at #2-#3 QB to position themselves to keep Winning. Furthermore, teams with great QBs are constantly attempting to draft the very best insurance they can and you see this around the league each draft. Remember too, Brady was a 6th round pick.. can you imagine had NE ignored that philosophy?

The Packers traded for Kizer, a 2nd. round pick that McCarthy characterized as a 1st. round talent. It's not for lack of trying. Even 1st. rounders suck as rookies and lose games. Veteran backups who look like they can win games are expensive and prefer to go where they can compete for the starting job in front of a rookie to get to the next contract.

Even if you think it is time for a succession plan, like New England drafting Goroppolo, even if he gets to the point where he can win a couple of games he's out the door before year 4 if the plan was premature and you're trying to recoup some of that draft value.

Cost and timing is tricky. Few teams highly reliant on a second contract (or beyond) franchise QB have some reliable winning solution. Most games are decided by 7 or fewer points. It doesn't take much fall off in QB backup performance to sink a contender to 8-8 or worse.

What you want is somewhere between very difficult and very costly.

While I couldn't agree with McCarthy's assessment of Kizer, I see improvement. You gotta figure it takes time to get 0-15 out of your system and back to some level of confidence. He might just do all right if called upon for a few games in the weaker part of the schedule if this is in fact a good football team. If it is not a good football team it is not going anywhere with Rodgers or without him.

Kizer's biggest challenge is 3 offensive schemes in 3 years.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Jeesh, I missed that, I figured you would get me for misspelling "throne"

But yeah those qual's should be fied for thinking such a thing!

A hoarse, a hoarse, my Kingdome for a hoarse.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That said, if Rodgers plays a full season or two back to back and looks good? Like Brady, he could prove to be productive past even his current contract. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him play past 40 years old. The new age bar has been raised there by Tom Brady who could likely play effective into his mid 40’s.
If I were hypothesizing, I’ll say Rodgers is still suited up when he turns 40-41 years old. What saved him is 3 years on the bench.

I understand Packers fans being concerned about Rodgers' durability as he hasn't been able to stay fully healthy for several seasons.

It's possible that he will be able to perform at an elite level into his 40s though.