Official GB vs Pat's, studs n duds

[SoonerPack]

So you don't think punts should be blocked. Gotcha. It goes against the wisdom of every coach in the game, but sure. Sounds good.

Time and place bro. My goodness. You don't think there are different approaches to the game depending on everything from field position, time on clock, personnel groupings, score, etc??? "MUST BLOCK PUNT. MUST BLOCK PUNT" No, MUST get the ball back when you have your opponent in a fourth and quarter of the field. If going balls out after the punter on 4th and 22 (not in closing moments of the game) is wisdom call me happily foolish.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Come back from pixiedust land and join reality my friend. It was FOURTH AND 22!!!!!! He wasn't close to blocking the punt therefore he had no business coming in that hard. You say throw out the open to interpretation "BS." How? The call is subjective in nature hence interpretation. Until we get robots and lasers on the field "interpretation BS" will continue to play a significant role in the game. For Zook to not be in every guys ear saying "stay off the punter" is insanity. For you to defend it is laughable.

Show me ONE punt where the defense did not rush the punter. Play hard or go home. In your small world the punt block should not exist. BS. What is laughable is the number of people week in and week out who point to plays that had a bad result and then proclaim they they are so damn smart that if THEY had been in charge it never would have happened. Please... lol

 

[BrokenArrow]

call me happily foolish.

If you say so.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Tonyan shouldn't have been called for roughing the kicker but it was stupid nevertheless even giving the refs a chance to call it that way.

Tonyan did it exactly how it is taught. It doesn't excuse the ref for ineptitude. The play wasn't even that close to roughing. Fact is Brad Allen is one of the worst refs ever and I cringe every time I see that POS in a game. It never ceases to amaze me when people want to blame the player when the REF screws up. These guys are paid a ton of money to GET IT RIGHT. They need to be accountable.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

These guys are paid a ton of money to GET IT RIGHT. They need to be accountable.

Wait, are you referring to Coaches and players? I think you are starting to see our point!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tonyan did it exactly how it is taught. It doesn't excuse the ref for ineptitude. The play wasn't even that close to roughing. Fact is Brad Allen is one of the worst refs ever and I cringe every time I see that POS in a game. It never ceases to amaze me when people want to blame the player when the REF screws up. These guys are paid a ton of money to GET IT RIGHT. They need to be accountable.

Geez, I agree that the referees made the wrong call but Tonyan should have never touched the punter. There's mobody suggesting not to rush on that play but be smart about it. Hopefully no coach is teaching the players to do it that way.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Geez, I agree that the referees made the wrong call.

And THAT is the crux of the matter. Players are taught what degree of contact is roughing and what is not. On 4th and 20+, you know you can absorb a running into the kicker penalty, so you go all out and you come in at an angle that does not cause roughing. Tonyan did it right and did not cross that line. Brad Allen, one of the worst referees for many years now crossed it for him. Theoretically, if the "real" officials were holding the NFL hostage again and a replacement referee made that exact same call, everyone would be up in arms about how egregious it was. Why are these so-called professional officials held to a lower standard and this kind of ******** is deemed acceptable? These chumps are paid $175,000 a year to get it right and this call wasn't even a close one. I'll be damned if I'm blaming Tonyan for Brad Allen's incompetence.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And THAT is the crux of the matter. Players are taught what degree of contact is roughing and what is not. Tonyan did not cross that line.

Do you understand that Tonyan touching the punter is a foul??? He should have been called for running into the kicker though.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Do you understand that Tonyan touching the punter is a foul??? He should have been called for running into the kicker though.

Do you understand that running into is only a 5 yard penalty and repeat the down? Any coach in the world is fine with going all out for a block if failure results in a 4th and 16. It was the right situation to go for it provided you do it properly so as not to rough the kicker. Tonyan did it properly. Enough with blaming him already. Put the blame where it belongs, on Brad Allen's head. Tonyan did NOTHING wrong and I'm sick of people jumping all over good players for no damn reason.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you understand that running into is only a 5 yard penalty and repeat the down? Any coach in the world is fine with going all out for a block if failure results in a 4th and 16. It was the right situation to go for it provided you do it properly so as not to rough the kicker. Tonyan did it properly. Enough with blaming him already. Put the blame where it belongs, on Brad Allen's head. Tonyan did NOTHING wrong and I'm sick of people jumping all over good players for no damn reason.

I'm not jumping over Tonyan by any means but there's no denying he made a mistake on the play.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm not jumping over Tonyan by any means but there's no denying he made a mistake on the play.

He made a 5 yard "mistake" not a 15 yard first down mistake. And what you call a mistake is a calculated risk where the benefit of blocking a punt outweighs the risk of a 5 yard penalty. The penalty of 5 yards is pretty meaningless in that situation because they're still going to punt on 4th and 16. The only real mistake was made by the idiot who made the wrong call.

Maybe you don't, but I have an expectation of some remedial level of competency from zebras who make physician money.

Anyway, I'm just going to go ahead and concede that you're right and I'm wrong to be critical of Brad Allen and defensive of Robert Tonyan. I'm too tired to care right now.

 

[Mondio]

I don't have a problem going after it, but he needs to be under more control. He bumped into the punters butt, the ref probably thought he blasted his kicking leg to make that call. Either way, if you're going to sell out for it, you pick a spot in front of the punter and make the block or miss everything. Or you apply pressure under control. He lost control and a bad view from the ref cost us a turnover. I can forgive an effort penalty from a young guy, even one this costly, over the stupid stuff.

 

[Poppa San]

He made a 5 yard "mistake" not a 15 yard first down mistake. And what you call a mistake is a calculated risk where the benefit of blocking a punt outweighs the risk of a 5 yard penalty. The penalty of 5 yards is pretty meaningless in that situation because they're still going to punt on 4th and 16. The only real mistake was made by the idiot who made the wrong call.
...

He took a calculated risk and lost. That wasn't the spot to take that risk.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nonsense. You either rush the punter or you don't. If Tonyan thought he had a real shot at it he should go for it. Guys are taught how to minimize contact when going for blocks and that's exactly what RT did. You don't drop your effort to 70% because you're afraid of what the ref might do.

He made a 5 yard "mistake" not a 15 yard first down mistake. And what you call a mistake is a calculated risk where the benefit of blocking a punt outweighs the risk of a 5 yard penalty. The penalty of 5 yards is pretty meaningless in that situation because they're still going to punt on 4th and 16. The only real mistake was made by the idiot who made the wrong call.

You went from a statement of "nothing wrong with what Tonyan did, he should have gone all out for the block, don't hold back for fear of what the ref might do" to "he made a calculated risk, knowing it should only cost him 5 yards and since it didn't, its all the referees fault". Were you by chance on any ballots last night for an election? That sounds a lot like a politicians speech.

I don't know why any coach in their right mind would say "Look we got them at 4th and 21 around midfield with the game tied, go at the punter 100%, but make sure you only take a 5 yard penalty if you miss."

 

[Ken smith]

Thanks, buddy. Actually JanisJubilee will disagree with your post but who cares about it???



Actually Brady didn't complete "only" six passes in a row but the announcers missed one of his completions in between.



Tonyan shouldn't have been called for roughing the kicker but it was stupid nevertheless even giving the refs a chance to call it that way.

Hey captain. Thanks for the corrections. I dunno tho... I went back through the play by plays and found the Brady incompletion string. I’m counting eight in a row with other plays in between. But I could be wrong... I’m a public school reading and math graduate.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hey captain. Thanks for the corrections. I dunno tho... I went back through the play by plays and found the Brady incompletion string. I’m counting eight in a row with other plays in between. But I could be wrong... I’m a public school reading and math graduate.

I took another look at the play-by-play as well. Brady had seven incompletions in a row in the third quarter but Breeland was called for pass interference on one of them resulting in only six of them being accounted for in the boxscore.

 

[PackAttack12]

At the end of the day, it's situations like the running into the kicker that simply does not happen to good, well coached, football teams. And right now, I'm having my doubts that this is a very well coached football team. McCarthy is a good coach, but something is a miss right now. There have been way too many boneheaded mistakes/plays made so far this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

At the end of the day, it's situations like the running into the kicker that simply does not happen to good, well coached, football teams. And right now, I'm having my doubts that this is a very well coached football team. McCarthy is a good coach, but something is a miss right now. There have been way too many boneheaded mistakes/plays made so far this season.

I am in the same camp and there have been some bone headed coaching decisions too. MM for whatever reason just doesn't seem very sharp this year, feels almost like he has succumb to the idea that his time in GB is up.

P.S. For the third time.....What is Joe Philbin doing as the Packer OC? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

 

[Mondio]

At the end of the day, it's situations like the running into the kicker that simply does not happen to good, well coached, football teams. And right now, I'm having my doubts that this is a very well coached football team. McCarthy is a good coach, but something is a miss right now. There have been way too many boneheaded mistakes/plays made so far this season.

I agree, something is amiss. I don't know if it's a big amiss or a little one, but it's something. It could be little and just trying to get everyone ready to play with a QB that couldn't practice and now he can getting young WR"s ready to go with a limited QB etc and some of the little things they used to work on are put on hold resulting in this team always shooting itself in the foot at the wrong time? and it's not just young guys, it's the vets too like Cobb, Rodgers, Oline etc. Or is it something larger and more systemic? I don't think it is, because that's not this teams MO for the most part looking back. short periods of it sure, but mostly pretty good.

Whatever it is, I hope they get it figured out quickly.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Whatever it is, I hope they get it figured out quickly.

I can't help but to think that a lot of this is a hangover from last season. MM and the Packers are exposed to who they are without AR. People start asking questions, pointing fingers, trying to prove that it just isn't AR that makes this team good. On AR's end, it puts a lot of pressure on him as well. Just signed the largest contract in the NFL, goes down with a knee injury in game 1.

The result is a team that is playing not to lose every week. A coach that is trying to "get back to the basics of what used to work". Meanwhile, guys are making stupid mistakes, maybe pressing a bit too much and its just a snowball effect after that.

Said it 3 weeks ago......MM needs to just run the no huddle offense for awhile and see if it relights this offense. I think the defense is playing well enough, that if the offense gets going, we can win a lot of games.

 

[BrokenArrow]

He took a calculated risk and lost. That wasn't the spot to take that risk.

Yeah, he lost. And the correct penalty for that loss was 5 yards. Why is everyone directing their anger at Tonyan instead of Brad fricking Allen where it belongs?

 

[Poppa San]

Yeah, he lost. And the correct penalty for that loss was 5 yards. Why is everyone directing their anger at Tonyan instead of Brad fricking Allen where it belongs?

No Tonyan gambled that the ref would call it the way he presented it, and not use his (ref) own viewpoint. Blaming the ref is a losers cop out. Don't make your stand based on someone else agreeing with your interpretation of where the line is. *

*You is meant to be from the players point of view.
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Actually, I think Tonyan just screwed up and did not really think all this through before hand.

 

[gopkrs]

Is it just me or does it seem like NE gets a lot of calls in home games that are nationally televised?

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Interesting stance some are taking here, apparently when all else fails it’s time to blame the refs. This thread has officially hit rock bottom.

 

[rmontro]

And the correct penalty for that loss was 5 yards. Why is everyone directing their anger at Tonyan instead of Brad fricking Allen where it belongs?

I recall the announcers saying it should have been a five yard penalty, although the refs and the announcers do not always agree, even after a video replay. But the point is he shouldn't have hit the punter at all. I'm not angry at him, but it's just another indication of the undisciplined play of the team this year. Whitehead was another.