It's time to acknowledge that the Lions are for real

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red4tribe

red4tribe

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It's really looking like it will come down to the last day of the season. I can't see Chicago or the Vikings beating Detroit. Chicago has been terrible, and the Vikings might have a chance if they can force turnovers, but it's in Detroit. Just gotta win the next three, and take care of business at Lambeau.

I don't think the Lions are super bowl contenders, but they can absolutely beat us. They match up pretty well against us. Really good defensive lines has always been our offenses's weakness.
 

NOMOFO

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Do not ignore the fact they have had a ton of injuries on Offense and have just gotten back most of their players......these easy teams will be like training for their offense to get better now that they have finally all healed up. Anyhow if you cannot see the Danger of the Lions Defense and their Offense finally getting healthy more power to ya.....lol.

"Ton of injuries"? lol ok.

Again, this is no different at all than what I am on record as saying about the Bears the past 2 years. Many wanted to anoint the mighty Bears offense, despite knowing EXACTLY who Jay Cutler was. It's no different than the Lions.

It just f'ing cracks me up to no end how peoples perception on Stafford and the Lions offense immediately parallels who they play! They play decent teams and get beat down and it's crickets. They beat amazingly crappy teams in the Bears and Bucs and it's just "Hey! Look out! Here comes Matt Stafford. He's got his stuff back!" you wanna lol? There's one.

Stafford has now been in this league long enough that just like ole Jay, we know who he is. The Lions offense will not beat the Packers. Not happening. We don't turn the ball over we win going away.

I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions would actually wager any money on them beating the Pack at home.
 
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With both of those teams their weakness IS McCown & Cutler, so why not put all of your efforts into stacking the box and making them try to beat you? Think Detroit would dare stack the box against AR, Romo, Manning, Brady, or Brees?

In the first meeting the Lions were able to stop the Packers rushing offense with only six guys in the bix and were able to create pressure rushing only four. If they're able to do that again at Lambeau the Packers will have a tough time scoring a lot of points.
 
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I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions would actually wager any money on them beating the Pack at home.
Can you point to a post where anybody is "soooooooo high on the Lions"? I'm not seeing any. More hyperbole and straw men.

Some of us have been arguing for some weeks now that week 17 will matter. That's not yet a certainty, of course, but it is a strong probability, which you now seem to concede. You were arguing the Lions would implode until you bothered to look at their schedule. That was after you called strength of schedule nonsense or some such.

I see you're careful to say the Lions offense can't beat the Packers, with no mention of their defense or what it accomplished in week 3. Winning the turnover battle is no guarantee the Packers will win "going away", as you put it; the Packers won the turnover battle 3-1 in the last meeting and still managed to lose.

As far as Stafford is concerned, his inconsistency is no secret. Then again, while the Packers defense has improved somewhat, it doesn't present him with an elite opponent.

I take confidence from the fact the game will be in Lambeau, and that Rodgers has worked in Adams, Lacy and the TEs more than early in the season, going in with more of an attack-the-weaknesses approach than the beat-you-with-my-best default.

This game is the not the slam dunk you want to make it out to be.
 

longtimefan

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I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions would actually wager any money on them beating the Pack at home.

You like to twist statements.

I think people only are saying this isn't like the normal lion team..

Like it or not, the pack HAVE to win next 3 games to make sure they are in playoffs. That has everything to do with the Lions. Years past the lions prob would have lost 2 or 3 more games than they have now, and packers would have had the division locked up.
 

Megatron

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"Ton of injuries"? lol ok.

Again, this is no different at all than what I am on record as saying about the Bears the past 2 years. Many wanted to anoint the mighty Bears offense, despite knowing EXACTLY who Jay Cutler was. It's no different than the Lions.

It just f'ing cracks me up to no end how peoples perception on Stafford and the Lions offense immediately parallels who they play! They play decent teams and get beat down and it's crickets. They beat amazingly crappy teams in the Bears and Bucs and it's just "Hey! Look out! Here comes Matt Stafford. He's got his stuff back!" you wanna lol? There's one.

Stafford has now been in this league long enough that just like ole Jay, we know who he is. The Lions offense will not beat the Packers. Not happening. We don't turn the ball over we win going away.

I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions would actually wager any money on them beating the Pack at home.

Umm, yes, tons of injuries. The Lions have had all their offensive lineman healthy exactly 1 game(Tampa), and about 5 offensive snaps. They lost their RT and backup tackle the first week of the year. They played most of the season with a terrible RT off the street. Then they lost their RG, and had to play a very raw under sized rookie project at starter. The right side is the side the Lions always run behind, so losing the entire right side for half the season destroyed the run game. Then, during the 2nd offensive snap of the Patriots game, they lost their LT too. it's kind of hard to beat the power ranked #1 team, at their place, especially a team known for basically never losing at home. NE has lost 3 times at home in the regular season the last FIVE years. How is a team supposed to do that with only a LG and center? Two guys well into their 30s and won't be on the team next year except as backups, at most.

At one point in the year, the Lions were without all 3 of their running backs. Luckily they got Bell back, but he was hobbled and not very effective. They were without 2 of their 3 RBs many games, and the Lions are a run by committee team. At one point they had to start UDFA off the practice squad just so they could have a RB.

Also, they were without all 3 TEs. For their London game, combined with losing their healthy TE so unexpectedly, they were forced to sign a TE off the street, merely because he happened to have a passport. There wasn't time to pickup any other TE from the street because there wouldn't of been time to get them a passport. Pettigrew their TE did manage to play hobbled a couple games, at least parts of games, but the Lions basically didn't have TEs nearly half the year either. And this offense was designed by Lombardi and Caldwell to be a tight end heavy offense.

Then Calvin Johnson was out for 5 games. Yes he was a decoy and played a couple snaps in a couple games, but he basically had no effect for 5 weeks.

All these injuries, on top of having all new coaches and a rookie OC. It's kind of hard for a coaching staff to evaluate whats working, implement schemes, get guys acclimated... when they are struggling to just field a team because of whole position groups + star players are injured.

But guess what? None of the injuries were season ending, and the bye week came at a good time for them. Unfortunately not soon enough, as they were still too depleted to go on the road and beat the best teams in the league, but they still stand at only 4 losses. Now that guys are healthy, and even have worked past the stiffness and soreness of injury, the offense is starting to play much better football. Putting up 34 points against the bears is so surprising feat, but Tampa Bay for 6 weeks had been fielding a very good defense. Holding every team they played under 290 yards and under 20 points. Their stats are bad and weighted down because their D was bad early on while adjusting to Lovies new defense. But, since their bye they've been good enough for top 5, if counted after their bye week until going into the Detroit game. Still Stafford put up 120+ QB rating with zero interceptions and they shredded that defense. Also, the Lions haven't needed to score more than 34 their last two games, they have a good defense (best points against D in the NFL) so they haven't needed to run up the score, just in case. You mention a little sloppiness in the Lions vs. Buccs game on the Lions part, that's funny, because I've seen the Packers have some sloppy moments too, and some unnecessary stuff from Clay.

Good defense, good offense, very good special teams too... if you want to say the Lions aren't very good (which I saw you do btw) you are free to think that. But I think that's a pretty ignorant thing to think, I've also seen a lot of misinformation too.. like "what did their great offense get them last year" I don't think a 20th ranked defense compares to #1 points against #2 yards...

I'll bottom line it. NOT same old Lions. The Lions beat the Packers once, and now the Lions are a much healthier team, much more acclimated to the new coaches and systems, and are playing sound football. The Lions weren't healthy at all against the bears, but were against Tampa. I expect a sharp increase each week leading up to week 17.
 
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NOMOFO

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You like to twist statements.

I think people only are saying this isn't like the normal lion team..

Like it or not, the pack HAVE to win next 3 games to make sure they are in playoffs. That has everything to do with the Lions. Years past the lions prob would have lost 2 or 3 more games than they have now, and packers would have had the division locked up.

No...actually there's no twisting anything. Please explain how asking a question is "twisting statements". I asked because it would give clarity to exactly how "positive" people feel about the Lions actually being "a much different team".

I suspect the back peddling now on the Lions and this softer stance is in fact because when they played two decent teams the past 5 games they were in fact the same old Lions and some are trying to save face for what they really know is going to happen. I get it.

It's some of the same crowd that told us that Jay and his amazing receivers would dominate the division. The same crowd that said it was a joke for anyone to consider the Packers receivers one of the best in the NFL.

What's most amusing is that come August of 2015 some of the same people will be back to picking the Bears and Lions yet again for no valid reason. ...but...I get it.
 

longtimefan

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No...actually there's no twisting anything. Please explain how asking a question is "twisting statements". I asked because it would give clarity to exactly how "positive" people feel about the Lions actually being "a much different team".

I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions

I dont think anyone is really high on them---I already explained my reasoning.

I suspect the back peddling now on the Lions and this softer stance is in fact because when they played two decent teams the past 5 games they were in fact the same old Lions and some are trying to save face for what they really know is going to happen. I get it.

It's some of the same crowd that told us that Jay and his amazing receivers would dominate the division. The same crowd that said it was a joke for anyone to consider the Packers receivers one of the best in the NFL.

What's most amusing is that come August of 2015 some of the same people will be back to picking the Bears and Lions yet again for no valid reason. ...but...I get it.

It isnt just us here

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/09/detroit-lions-jim-caldwell-nfl-week-10

I also have heard guys on NFLN state the same thing.


 

NOMOFO

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I wonder how many people that are soooooooo high on the Lions

I dont think anyone is really high on them---I already explained my reasoning.


It isnt just us here

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/09/detroit-lions-jim-caldwell-nfl-week-10

I also have heard guys on NFLN state the same thing.

Said it a million times now. When it comes to the NFL, this stuff never ends. No matter how much data, facts and history we have on something, fans will often look past that. You can post all the "opinions" on it you want. It's no shocker to me.

If more "agreed" with you, the Lions Vegas odds wouldn't look like they do.

Like I said, it's very common to look for these feel good after school special like stories. Lovie Smith's Bears had the EXACT same deal going on a couple years ago. We know how that turned out.

Can we just agree to disagree at this point? Not exactly sure the point of debating this further. We shall see in a few weeks. I simply predict that Stafford and that offense is not good enough to win the division or beat the Packers at home in a few weeks. Watching him play every game the past month, I feel even more confident in saying that than I did 2 months ago.

Watching our O-Line come together, I'm also more confident than ever we can protect Rodgers against the Lions rush. Of course, the performance of the secondary was "not so good" last night was it? ...but it won't matter.
 

longtimefan

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Can we just agree to disagree at this point? Not exactly sure the point of debating this further. We shall see in a few weeks. I simply predict that Stafford and that offense is not good enough to win the division or beat the Packers at home in a few weeks. Watching him play every game the past month, I feel even more confident in saying that than I did 2 months ago.

I dont believe anyone (or at least me) is saying the Lions will win the division..

I am simply saying they are better then years past and wouldnt have the same collapse as they always did..that is my opinion and tbh they havent collapsed YET..

That is all, you are twisting it, and being side tracked on how Stafford is this or isnt this, or how the Bears are this or arent that..
 

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I think at this point, W17 is going to matter for both teams. Even if Detroit slips up and loses one if it's next two and we win our next two (which would give us the division), we're still going to be fighting for HFA and the Lions for a WC spot.

The Lions are certainly beatable on the road as both New England and Arizona proved and they have all the pressure on them of not having won in Green Bay since Desert Storm. Their offense finally woke up some the last two weeks, but let's not pretend Chicago and Tampa Bay are serious playoff contenders or have Top 10 defenses that got exposed.
 

Jdeed

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I think at this point, W17 is going to matter for both teams. Even if Detroit slips up and loses one if it's next two and we win our next two (which would give us the division), we're still going to be fighting for HFA and the Lions for a WC spot.

The Lions are certainly beatable on the road as both New England and Arizona proved and they have all the pressure on them of not having won in Green Bay since Desert Storm. Their offense finally woke up some the last two weeks, but let's not pretend Chicago and Tampa Bay are serious playoff contenders or have Top 10 defenses that got exposed.


Again we see this assumption the Lions were healthy......I am telling you the Lions are healthier as of the TB game on Offense then they have been all year. Looking at the remaining games.....its very unlikely DET slips up and week 17 is going to be for the Title you can bet on it. It very well may be the loser goes to Seattle or New Orleans.
 

Carl

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Can you point to a post where anybody is "soooooooo high on the Lions"? I'm not seeing any. More hyperbole and straw men.

Some of us have been arguing for some weeks now that week 17 will matter. That's not yet a certainty, of course, but it is a strong probability, which you now seem to concede. You were arguing the Lions would implode until you bothered to look at their schedule. That was after you called strength of schedule nonsense or some such.

I see you're careful to say the Lions offense can't beat the Packers, with no mention of their defense or what it accomplished in week 3. Winning the turnover battle is no guarantee the Packers will win "going away", as you put it; the Packers won the turnover battle 3-1 in the last meeting and still managed to lose.

As far as Stafford is concerned, his inconsistency is no secret. Then again, while the Packers defense has improved somewhat, it doesn't present him with an elite opponent.

I take confidence from the fact the game will be in Lambeau, and that Rodgers has worked in Adams, Lacy and the TEs more than early in the season, going in with more of an attack-the-weaknesses approach than the beat-you-with-my-best default.

This game is the not the slam dunk you want to make it out to be.

Too add, the Packers also won the turnover battle on Thanksgiving last year and lost by 30.
 

NOMOFO

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I dont believe anyone (or at least me) is saying the Lions will win the division..

I am simply saying they are better then years past and wouldnt have the same collapse as they always did..that is my opinion and tbh they havent collapsed YET..

That is all, you are twisting it, and being side tracked on how Stafford is this or isnt this, or how the Bears are this or arent that..

You can repeat it all you want but I'm not twisting a thing. I think it's pretty clear what everyone's opinions are and I'm looking forward to the last game of the season. I'm also expecting many to back peddle on the Lions love fest so as to not have to eat crow in a few weeks.

As far as being "sidetracked", no idea where you are going with that. This is an internet sports forum not an on-line college course or something for God's sake. I commented that these predictions about the Lions being a different team simply because of their coach is no different than how many said the exact same thing when the Bears had Lovie. I commented about Stafford as my main reason for not thinking the Lions are any different. I'm not "sidetracked" on anything.
 

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We shall see in a few weeks. I simply predict that Stafford and that offense is not good enough to win the division or beat the Packers at home in a few weeks.



I think most agree with your statement.

We are simply saying the "old lions" would have lost in London and a few other games...But this new team won those games.

But you keep bringing up the lions wont win the div...That is twisting it in my eyes..
 

longtimefan

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The change doesn't necessarily have to be in personnel. They made the biggest change at the top, with Jim Caldwell, a proven winner. The Lions were always talented, but how many times would they blow games on penalties? How many seasons did they get in a losing streak that they couldn't recover from? How many close games have they blown the past few years when they should have won? Caldwell brings stability and confidence, something Schwartz never did. That's part of the reason they're winning all of these close games..

Nomo---

This sums it up perfectly..

No where does Red say the win the division, or beat the Packers..Just that the team has a different feel about them..
 

NOMOFO

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Some posters have avoided this thread

LOL

This is pretty funny. When this thread was started the mighty Lions were a game up on the Packers. They now sit a game behind the Packers. Please explain who exactly you think is "avoiding" this thread.

Talk about twisting things. Somehow you were correct, even though the Lions have fallen to second place?

...and I AM the one "twisting" things?! :roflmao::roflmao:;)
 

NOMOFO

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I think most agree with your statement.

We are simply saying the "old lions" would have lost in London and a few other games...But this new team won those games.

But you keep bringing up the lions wont win the div...That is twisting it in my eyes..

That's just disingenuous. C'mon. I don't throw around the word "luck" very much in sports but there's no doubt about it, the Lions were flat out lucky to win that game in London. To suggest that's a positive for Caldwell is silly.

Did you see the Lions game Sunday and the horribly undisciplined penalties they had?

I think the only person "twisting" anything is you by now downplaying the commentary by some about the Lions. Now you are suggesting everyone agrees the Packers will probably win the division. That's funny, I didn't read those comments or anything close when they were up by a game.

So what you are saying is, you now agree that the Lions will finish behind the Packers like they basically have for much of the past 2 decades, but I'm "twisting things", even though that's exactly what I predicted.

The title of the thread is "It's time to acknowledge that the Lions are for real". So, you're saying you consider they are for real and they're much different BUT... they'll finish behind the Pack. Would that make the Packers UN-Real? Super Duper Real? :D;)

We can go around and around on this if you'd like but the proof as far as I'm concerned will be in the pudding.
 

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