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Ha-Ha Clinton Dix Overrated?

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by D3uc3, Apr 13, 2014.

?

Who would be the best fit for the Packers Defense at Safety

  1. Ha Ha Clinton Dix

    19.2%
  2. Calvin Pryor

    50.0%
  3. Jimmie Ward

    7.7%
  4. Deone Buchannon

    19.2%
  5. Ed Reynolds

    3.8%
  6. Ahmad Dixon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    Over the the past week I've looked at the top 5 Safeties in the Draft given that one of the five will likely join the Packers, As I've looked at the Numbers for Clinton Dix and his numbers don't stand out to me.
    While on the other hand looking at Pryor, Ward, Buchannon, Reynolds, and Dixon they all posted better numbers than Dix, which leads me to believe the only reason Dix is the highest ranked safety due to playing in the SEC which is by far the toughest conference in college football, Dix isn't a physical safety and undersized is he a playmaker yes but not what the Packers need.
    Given the fact we play Marshall/Jeffery,C. Johnson/Tate, Simpson/Jennings all twice a year we need a safety who can make a play on the ball or the player and given Dix size and his lacks bringing the wood on ball carriers.
    Before really looking into these guys I was all for going after Dix, until really looking at these guys tape, after looking at tape on these guys Pryor seems to be the best fit for the Packers if available he would be the most physical player and has great hands and arrives with bad intensions.
    If not Pryor the best fit for the Packers over Dix would have to be Ward or Buchannon they're both physical and have a nose for the ball before and after the catch and both will likely be second rounders and easily available with TT draft know how.

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  2. ReggieLombardi
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    ReggieLombardi Cheesehead

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    Clinton-Dix has been slipping on my draft day Christmas list along with most of the other first round targets. I think he can start for the Packers but I just can't see any kind of big impact from him. He's just a safety who can do a job. Nothing special about him. If I was GM or head coach, there are certain positions where football intelligence and intelligence in general would be of extra importance. Quarterbacks, middle linebackers, safeties namely. It's probably harsh of me to judge his intelligence on a few interviews but the dude just does not seem like the sharpest tool in the box. Same goes for Mosley.

    As for Calvin Pryor, while his highlight videos are impressive, the tapes that show his flaws are really scary for me. He is a concussion, and a 15 yard penalty, waiting to happen. There really isn't much room in the modern game for a hard hitting safety. Pryor could easily be a player I'm wrong about. He could turn out to be a ball hawking monster, but that's not what people are talking about with him. I just don't have a good feeling about him.

    I would love for Ted to trade our first round pick this year and end up with an extra 3rd round pick or better. With our compensatory pick we could possibly land 5 of the top 100 in the draft if we move back or out of the first round, provided there is a team that will make a deal(sneaky felling we will make a trade with SanFran). Let Ted do what he does and find us some starters outside the first round. There are a few safeties that will be picked in rounds 2-4 that I like, but that is mostly an amateur opinion based on a few YouTube videos and physical traits. I like Terrance Brooks, Ahmad Dixon, Craig Loston, and Kenny Ladler.
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  3. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    If you look at film of Pryor he is a hard hitter hands down but, he knows the strike zone, and facing receivers who are 6'3 to 6'5 those are big targets to hit and make em think twice about catching the ball, and the guy has great hands, but Ladler is also a great prospect, the best fit I see for the Packers maybe Ward his coverage skills and range is very under estimated and he can hit and has great hands and causes a lot of INTs if he's not picking it off himself.
  4. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    IMO Clinton-Dix is by far the best free safety prospect available in this year´s draft. He´s got the range, coverage skills and ability to tackle teams look for in a FS. He´s capable of matching up with slot receivers or TEs and while not perfect is an effective run supporter. When taking a look at his production you have to realize that he started only 19 games, but had INTs in the 2012 SEC and BCS championship games.

    In addition I think the guy is the only draftee that would be able to help with the breakdowns in the Packers secondary that occured because of miscommunications as he has played in a pro-style defense and was the guy making the calls last year.
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  5. Vrill
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    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Alabama defenders typically arent going to gobble up a lot of stats due to the overall plethora of talent across the board on their D year in and year out. They always have so many defenders who can make plays. Nobody has to carry the D on their shoulders like some other defenders around the Nation do at times, which results in greater stat lines. Also, Saban is known for pulling the starting D off the field during blow outs and playing the B and C team.
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  6. SoonerPack
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    I for one am a Pryor guy. I understand that the current climate in the NFL does not lend itself to hard-hitting safeties but I love a guy that can put a little doubt and fear in the opponents minds. When you watch the tape on CP the biggest thing that jumps out is his playmaking ability. To me it is a no-brainer if he is there at 21 whereas a lack of big plays in the back end was a major problem for us last year. I may be alone here but a few 15 yarders throughout the season in return for some impact plays and drops via fear are well worth the price. I think Ha-Ha will be a pretty good player but there have been more than a few secondary players from Bama that didn't pan out or at least live up to their draft price. With all this being said I am still firmly in the Hyde to Safety camp and all of this post is predicated on the TT going S in the first. In my perfect world we would land either Mosley or Shazier with our 1 and take a safety later in the draft the likes of Brooks (FSU) or Bucannon (WSU).
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  7. Dylan Hoppe
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    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    I would take Pryor over Dix if somehow, both were available to us. I have a strange feeling the bears will end up with Pryor, maybe the chiefs. Someone will take Dix in the top 15. We'll get shazier or Mosley, or trade out of the first. That's my guess. I think Dix will be great if he goes to the right team, but that will be the key, going to the right team. Any team that wants him to play in the box at all will be disappointed. I think he's overrated because people use the "he would have shined more on a worse defense" thing. The best players make the most plays with or without a stellar defense. Ask Richard Sherman.


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  8. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Agree, that's why I would want him to line up strictly at FS.

    Clinton-Dix had more INTs during his college career than Sherman had.
  9. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    Dix 2013: (2 INTs)
    Pryor 2013: (3 INTs)
    Ward 2013: ( 7 INTs)
    What's so impressive about him besides playing for Bama? Remember the last Bama safety we took? Charlie Peprah and we see how that worked out.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
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  10. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    We have the picks to trade up for Pryor Mosley or whoever TT feels is worth taking round 1 and it not effect us in the drafting either round.
  11. Einstein McFly
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    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    Comparing college stats is a weird way to decide between players. This isn't baseball. They play against different teams, with different schemes and vastly different talent around them. Scouts have to look at what they do with all of that in context to decide, not just stats. Based on the vast majority of things I've read about this year's safeties, Dix is the best in coverage and angles and all sorts of valuable things that have nothing to do with stats.

    Of course, look at how many GMs and scouts got the entire top and most of the first round of the 2008 draft wrong.

    Still though, it seems like a lot of people who are wanting Pryor over Dix are people who like the idea of some big scary hitter in the middle who will "intimidate" guys, but that's not how things work nowadays. We need good, sure tacklers more than "big hitters". Roughing penalties will kill a defense.
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  12. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    In 2012 Clinton-Dix had 5 INTs while Ward had 3 and Pryor 2. In addition you can't compare the competition Ward played against in the MAC.
  13. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    This thread should be retitled "D3uc3 has an opinion about who we should draft at Safety. Everyone pay attention!"

    At our current draft position we won't have a choice between Dix and Pryor, so we've fallen into the false dichotomy rabbit hole with this chat. A few observations from someone that would be happy to add either player:

    • Comparing defensive prospects through raw cumulative stats is stupid, just ******* amateur. I can't hide my disdain for that crap. In college, Dix was part of a much better defensive unit that faced better competition: he's not racking up obscene totals. I just don't hold the Louisville program in the same regard.
    • This is oversimplifying it quite a bit, but Dix is better in coverage while Pryor is better in the box. (They would make a cool pairing at safety for the same team, BTW.) Since our biggest problems at safety happened in coverage last year, Dix seems like the better immediate fix. But we won't be presented with such a choice, so the point is moot and I would be happy for either player.
    • I'm warming up to the idea of adding versatility/speed to the middle of our defense in the first round. Wouldn't shock me to see the Packers wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to address safety. With that in mind, mark me down for Reynolds!
    • A trade up could happen with so many teams looking to move back (i.e., the value might be there) but I think we can stand pat and add a quality player for the defense. This is probably what happens. FWIW, the place to move back to is the third round this year- there will be some values there.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
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  14. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    2012 and 2013 are totally different years and playing in the system he should is familiar with he should have improved not decreased I just don't think all around he is what they hype him up to be and one thing Pryor did do was increase his numbers yes he had 2 INTs in 2012 but that was also the year he had the most FF and he targets the right hit zone, I'm not knocking Dix I just don't think he is a Safety the Packers should draft.
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  15. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think everybody understands by now that you don´t want the Packers to draft him. We probably won´t be able to agree on that topic as I´m in favour of drafting him as I think he´s by far the best coverage safety in the draft and just like jaybadger I think this is the most important thing the Packers have to look at in a safety.
  16. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    1 we all know he won't be available at 21, 2 this is my opinion I'm no draft expert but to say by far he's the best is a way bit of a stretch, Pryor and has coverage and and can come up in run support with no problem, you have to look past the passing game only because, honestly that's about all he could help in we need a defensive enforcer and Pryor is just that a pure enforcer with good hands and run support ability, but hey we are all entitled to our own opinion!
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  17. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I don´t question that Pryor has the tools to support the run defense and is a hard hitting guy, but he has coverage limitations.
  18. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    If you saw the title it was posed as a question. Yes he played in a much better conference than Pryor and Ward but that doesn't make him a perfect fit for the Packers look at the last Bama safety we took, and I asked this question because you don't know who TT will draft and neither do I. I have looked at pretty much the top 8 honestly and I just don't get the hype over Dix, is he a great player yes by far. But don't over look the lesser known programs because we can all name many of players from lesser conferences that have more than excelled at the pro level this isn't just a stat comparison yes that would be stupid to compare them on stats alone. But film does not lie and I just don't see Dix hype, and coverage wise Ward is one of the best coming out the draft this yr an as the draft get closer I do think TT will surprise us all with his 1 round decision whether it's trading back or taking someone no one really projected us to take but hey I'll respect his decision with whoever he takes, and once again the initial question was is he overrated.
  19. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    That's you guys opinion and I respect it.
  20. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    You have to realize though that the Alabama football program wasn´t the best in the country at the time Peprah played there.
  21. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    You ask whether Dix is overrated in the title, then post a poll about who would be the best fit for the Packers at Safety. Those are separate issues.

    Whatever the case, you've made your opinion on Dix abundantly clear, right down to the transparent and loaded question in this thread title. The emphasis on telling us how overrated Dix is seems so half-cocked since he probably won't be available when we select anyway.
  22. D3uc3
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    D3uc3 Cheesehead

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    No the purpose of the poll was to see who fellow Packers fan thought would be a good fit at safety we all don't think alike who you may like at safety or think fits may differ from my opinion or anyone else's opinion, and the purpose was to see if anyone else felt he was or to see if there's something I'm missing about Dix if the Packers somehow got Dix I would support him just as I would any other Packers Player no matter my personal feeling for the guy or not, is that not the purpose of fan forums to discuss football with my fellow fans, remember all of these post are really nothing more than fan opinions which we all are entitled too!
  23. Einstein McFly
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    .................................................................................. USE THEM
  24. Dylan Hoppe
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    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    Since when do interception totals determine who the better safety is? How about forced fumbles? If you're one of the best safeties, quarterbacks will avoid you? Yeah interceptions are nice but if nobody ever throws at you, tell me how you're gonna grab 10 picks in a year...


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  25. Dylan Hoppe
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    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    Is it really necessary to spellcheck? We're not writing published articles....


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