Favre's status

[warhawk]

Jarrett was taken with the 13th pick of the second round. We then moved our second round pick at #15 and took Jackson later. Why put a screw in managements temple over that? The guy was gone.

Walker made very questionable demands and acted like a jerk thru the whole process to a point the usually mum BF even said something.

It is 20/20 hindsight and abundantly clear we do not have Walker or Jarrett on this team today helping Brett Favre. There is a whole lot more, however, that goes into WHY they are not here.

It's not so much that your opinion is not wanted as it is about bringing this same theme in over and over and over.

Personally, I love Favre, but realistically he's not what he once was. He misses passes and open receivers more than he used to. I am in the camp that we can, in fact, make the playoffs and will do that by building a DYNAMITE DEFENSE because Brett is no longer capable of putting the team on his back. We certainly can't ask him to go out there and outscore everybody like he has had to do for us to win in the past.

Others that don't think we are there yet would like to move on and get to where we will ultimately be in the post Brett era. Those that don't agree with me at least don't call me a drunken Alabama hick.

After all. I don't drink.

 

[Zombieslayer]

I consider myself pretty fair when it comes to assessments. I can see the whole picture, and as I said several times, a lot of the blame does go on Favre. But, I think it's more you who's anti-Favre than us who are overly forgiving.

Well I guess you look at it as me being anti-Favre which is fine. I look at it as pro-Packers. I want this young team to move on with a QB that can grow with the team, instead of going through the annual Favre retirement dance, and then the "TT didn't get weapons for me pout".

I'm not going to go to the effort in posting Favre's 4th Qtr. #'s or his #'s in close games, but they're close to the worst in the league. He's no where near a top 10 QB as many here have stated.

You consider yourself seeing the whole picture. Look at Favre's #'s against teams that weren't bottom feeders, they're awful.

Tileman - My bad. I misread what you were getting at and misjudged you. Now I see where you're coming from.

Actually, please do post those stats. They're extremely relevant to this discussion. I'll readily admit my judgment about Favre is cloudy due to the fact that I've been a Packer fan since the mid-70s, and before Favre, we were horrible. So needless to say, I'm a little biased.

 

[Lare]

Like reading all the opposing viewpoints, but I don't understand the need for all the namecalling, swearing and attacking other people's opinions.

Also don't see why it's OK to call someone a "****head, whiney *****, *****, Biotch, Moron, whiney *** and "F"ing Puke" and calling their posts "Crying, whining and crap", but Pyle gets suspended for questioning TT's decisions.

Go figure.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Like reading all the opposing viewpoints, but I don't understand the need for all the namecalling, swearing and attacking other people's opinions. Also don't see why these types of posts are alright, but Pyle gets suspended.

Go figure.

lol ... c'mon Lare you're smart you can figure this out. Think about the people in question and compare them to the other name you mention. The latter of which you mentioned would put words in the users mouth and attack that while avoiding the actual point. It happened several times. Heck for some proof of that just check out that Javon Walker trade thread from a year or so ago.

 

[Lare]

Like reading all the opposing viewpoints, but I don't understand the need for all the namecalling, swearing and attacking other people's opinions. Also don't see why these types of posts are alright, but Pyle gets suspended.

Go figure.

lol ... c'mon Lare you're smart you can figure this out. Think about the people in question and compare them to the other name you mention. The latter of which you mentioned would put words in the users mouth and attack that while avoiding the actual point. It happened several times. Heck for some proof of that just check out that Javon Walker trade thread from a year or so ago.

Not arguing that point Z2C, we pretty much expect some people to turn every issue around to fit their own perspective. I can name several who will turn every one around to praise TT, and several who will turn every one around to blame TT.

I guess I just don't see how that is worse than someone calling another person a "****head" or a "Fing Puke".

 

[Zero2Cool]

Like reading all the opposing viewpoints, but I don't understand the need for all the namecalling, swearing and attacking other people's opinions. Also don't see why these types of posts are alright, but Pyle gets suspended.

Go figure.

lol ... c'mon Lare you're smart you can figure this out. Think about the people in question and compare them to the other name you mention. The latter of which you mentioned would put words in the users mouth and attack that while avoiding the actual point. It happened several times. Heck for some proof of that just check out that Javon Walker trade thread from a year or so ago.

Not arguing that point Z2C, we pretty much expect some people to turn every issue around to fit their own perspective. I can name several who will turn every one around to praise TT, and several who will turn every one around to blame TT.

I guess I just don't see how that is worse than someone calling another person a "****head" or a "Fing Puke".

I'm betting that they aren't banned because its not something that we see regularly from them. However, if it becomes something we can expect from those users, I'm sure they will be handled just as the other user was handled when it became expected of their consistent tirades.

 

[dhpackr]

Jarrett was taken with the 13th pick of the second round. We then moved our second round pick at #15 and took Jackson later. Why put a screw in managements temple over that? The guy was gone.

I know when Jarrett was selected. Point I'm making, and why I'm putting a screw in managements head is this crazy, nuts, insane theory I have of actually trading up, to get a player you could use. a player that may have an impact on your team immediately. instead of trading down every year
and Jarrett was a value in the 2nd

Those that don't agree with me at least don't call me a drunken Alabama hick.

After all. I don't drink.

Those that don't agree with me at least don't call me a ****head, and i said sorry as well

 

[tromadz]

i do drink

i am a ****head

and i think jackson WILL be used (I wanted jarrett too, he was one of the few players in the draft i knew things about)

wait and see how clowney\jones do before you screw management

 

[Zero2Cool]

I know when Jarrett was selected. Point I'm making, and why I'm putting a screw in managements head is this crazy, nuts, insane theory I have of actually trading up, to get a player you could use. a player that may have an impact on your team immediately. instead of trading down every year and Jarrett was a value in the 2nd

Even my favorite WR (Javon Walker) took more than a year to become something special. WR are not as sure fire as say a RB? Just ask the Lions about that. How many 1st rounders did they waste on WR? Imagine the team they'd have if they picked better 1st rounders.

As been mentioned before and I have to agree with. I think the Packers have a board that lists the best player available for the Packers. Makes sense, right? They needed a RB more than a WR and you have less risk by taking a RB in the 2nd rd than a WR. Especially when they felt they could get the WR's they wanted later in the draft.


I think the chance of a RB performing well is higher than a WR performing well in our offense in their rookie year.

I'm also thinking the staff is pretty high on the WR staff we have. Driver, Jennings LOCKS. Holiday and Martin and possibly K Robinson after week 4 or 5. Then of course they knew they were going to get some WR later in the draft too.


Also maybe they were thinking the running game is more important. Maybe they feel the passing game would be more potent if we had a better running game and that having a good passing game doesn't necessarily open up the running game because a rookie WR is less likely to perform well compared to a rookie RB.

:shrug:

ps, please dont call me ****head, spanks-a-lot or pudge facker plz k thx

 

[Zero2Cool]

and i think jackson WILL be used (I wanted jarrett too, he was one of the few players in the draft i knew things about)

I'm in the same boat with ya man. I actually seen the guy play and watched a documentary on him and his uncle and how he used to play catch all the time with him. His uncle would make him continue playing even after his hands bled. Throwing the ball even harder.

 

[dhpackr]

I know when Jarrett was selected. Point I'm making, and why I'm putting a screw in managements head is this crazy, nuts, insane theory I have of actually trading up, to get a player you could use. a player that may have an impact on your team immediately. instead of trading down every year and Jarrett was a value in the 2nd

Even my favorite WR (Javon Walker) took more than a year to become something special. WR are not as sure fire as say a RB? Just ask the Lions about that. How many 1st rounders did they waste on WR? Imagine the team they'd have if they picked better 1st rounders.

As been mentioned before and I have to agree with. I think the Packers have a board that lists the best player available for the Packers. Makes sense, right? They needed a RB more than a WR and you have less risk by taking a RB in the 2nd rd than a WR. Especially when they felt they could get the WR's they wanted later in the draft.


I think the chance of a RB performing well is higher than a WR performing well in our offense in their rookie year.

I'm also thinking the staff is pretty high on the WR staff we have. Driver, Jennings LOCKS. Holiday and Martin and possibly K Robinson after week 4 or 5. Then of course they knew they were going to get some WR later in the draft too.


Also maybe they were thinking the running game is more important. Maybe they feel the passing game would be more potent if we had a better running game and that having a good passing game doesn't necessarily open up the running game because a rookie WR is less likely to perform well compared to a rookie RB.

:shrug:

ps, please dont call me ****head, spanks-a-lot or pudge facker plz k thx

Well, how about making a trade for Lynch? do you think Brandon Jackson will be a #1 RB in GB? I just don't feel he will be a #1 back. He was never a starter in college, he is short, not really fast, he never even played a full college season let alone a full NFL season.

 

[Lare]

Well, how about making a trade for Lynch? do you think Brandon Jackson will be a #1 RB in GB? I just don't feel he will be a #1 back. He was never a starter in college, he is short, not really fast, he never even played a full college season let alone a full NFL season.

A trade like that isn't going to happen at this point. The only option we have is for Morency/Jackson/Herron/Beach/Pope to perform. Remember, we only improve from within now.

 

[tromadz]

Well, how about making a trade for Lynch? do you think Brandon Jackson will be a #1 RB in GB? I just don't feel he will be a #1 back. He was never a starter in college, he is short, not really fast, he never even played a full college season let alone a full NFL season.

A trade like that isn't going to happen at this point. The only option we have is for Morency/Jackson/Herron/Beach/Pope to perform. Remember, we only improve from within now.

TT drafted Woodson?!

Thanks Lare, more reason for me to love the guy!

 

[Zero2Cool]

Well, how about making a trade for Lynch? do you think Brandon Jackson will be a #1 RB in GB? I just don't feel he will be a #1 back. He was never a starter in college, he is short, not really fast, he never even played a full college season let alone a full NFL season.

A trade like that isn't going to happen at this point. The only option we have is for Morency/Jackson/Herron/Beach/Pope to perform. Remember, we only improve from within now.

Again, getting a RB in the first rd is more costly than a DT. You can sign a DT for cheaper than you can RB. I hate to say that because it sounds like I'm making excuses for the drafting, but I'm really not. I'm just throwing you the logical explanation that comes to MY mind.

If the Packers felt Lynch could be a stud, they would have made the move. As I said earlier though. A RB is easier to replace than some other positions. Especially with the ZBS we employ.

Do I think B Jack is a starter? No. I don't think he's all that good to be perfectly honest with you. I have more faith in Vernand Morency than I do with Jackson. I can't much say I agree with the pick of Jackson, but I can understand why we took a RB instead of a WR with that second rd pick.

 

[dhpackr]

Well, how about making a trade for Lynch? do you think Brandon Jackson will be a #1 RB in GB? I just don't feel he will be a #1 back. He was never a starter in college, he is short, not really fast, he never even played a full college season let alone a full NFL season.

A trade like that isn't going to happen at this point. The only option we have is for Morency/Jackson/Herron/Beach/Pope to perform. Remember, we only improve from within now.

I meant TT should of tried a trade for lynch on Draft Day.

 

[RainX]

It still amazes me how quickly some people want to get rid of the best QB the Packers have ever had, to turn to an absolute unknown. If the guy was total trash, then i'd agree with you. But he still has a heck of an arm, and IF he has someone (other then just Driver) to throw the ball to, and a LITTLE time to throw, he STILL can get the job done.
I can't help but wonder how old Tileman is. I don't know, but i bet he is young and USED to having the Brett Favre at his prime.
I lived through the 1970's and 80's where we would have KILLED to have a QB as good as Favre is NOW, at the end of his career. Look around the NFL and see just how many QB's have played, and been thrown aside by all the other teams since Favre came here. I for one, am NOT in a hurry to see how far the Packers drop after Brett retires.
I remember at the end of Bart Starr's career, he was awful. He was a shell of his former self, plus had NO play makers left. He should have retired earlier. But Favre is not at that point yet. He still has the skills in my view.

LOL... We drafted John Hadl late in his career just to try to get someone like Brett. Me personally, I really don't want to relive the Randy Wright experience. Never again see the likes of a TJ Rubley fumble away a game. The Rich Campbell project or any other of the Whitehurst's that have taken the field over the years.

Someday soon Mister Favre will hang them up, but lets not try to forget what we take for granted each time #4 steps onto the field.

This is what i'm saying. I for one lived through the lean years. I'm in no hurry to push Favre off the field, until he SHOWS that he doesn't have "it" anymore.
When we got Hadl, he was already WAAAAAAY over the hill, and halfway up the next. That was a HUGE blunder. Favre, in my eyes at least, is not washed up yet.
Now.....he may show this coming season that he's done, but i would NOT bet against him!

I wasn't alive for the Hadl trade (I'm only 26), but my dad sure throws a fit everytime I bring it up in conversation. :rotflmao:

I do remember the Randy Wright experiment though. Oh how I have to absolutely laugh remembering the time he fainted on the metrodump terf during a game against the Vikings. That alone just goes to show you how cursed Packer fans were during that span.

As far as Brett hanging them up, I'm not ready to rush him out the door if he wants to come back, but I still feel a strong urge to see what we have in Aaron Rodgers. The only way we're going to see that though is if Brett retires, and if Brett retires after this season, he should have the TD record at the least and hopefully Marino's yardage record as well and can cap a successful 16 year tenure as the Packers starting QB.

 

[Tileman]

Tileman - My bad. I misread what you were getting at and misjudged you. Now I see where you're coming from.

Actually, please do post those stats. They're extremely relevant to this discussion. I'll readily admit my judgment about Favre is cloudy due to the fact that I've been a Packer fan since the mid-70s, and before Favre, we were horrible. So needless to say, I'm a little biased.

Here's a couple of links that show his decline. An acquittance of my that his is own site has made up his own rating stat for QB's , it has to do with close games and 4th qtr performance, it's a great stat, but he's in the process of copy writing it, so I have to get his permission to post it here first, just haven't had a chance to ask him yet.

BTW, just to reiterate, I'm not a Favre hater, I love they guy, just don't believe he's in the Packers best interest for the future, JMO.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pEPvKoQlbbjL6Diao_aaMbQ&gid=0

http://www.twominutewarning.com/xxred.htm

 

[Zero2Cool]

Tileman - My bad. I misread what you were getting at and misjudged you. Now I see where you're coming from.

Actually, please do post those stats. They're extremely relevant to this discussion. I'll readily admit my judgment about Favre is cloudy due to the fact that I've been a Packer fan since the mid-70s, and before Favre, we were horrible. So needless to say, I'm a little biased.

Here's a couple of links that show his decline. An acquittance of my that his is own site has made up his own rating stat for QB's , it has to do with close games and 4th qtr performance, it's a great stat, but he's in the process of copy writing it, so I have to get his permission to post it here first, just haven't had a chance to ask him yet.

BTW, just to reiterate, I'm not a Favre hater, I love they guy, just don't believe he's in the Packers best interest for the future, JMO.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pEPvKoQlbbjL6Diao_aaMbQ&gid=0

http://www.twominutewarning.com/xxred.htm

very cool indeed but where did you get the numbers from and how do you determine a bad throw vs a WR running the wrong or bad route?

 

[warhawk]

Like reading all the opposing viewpoints, but I don't understand the need for all the namecalling, swearing and attacking other people's opinions. Also don't see why these types of posts are alright, but Pyle gets suspended.

Go figure.

lol ... c'mon Lare you're smart you can figure this out. Think about the people in question and compare them to the other name you mention. The latter of which you mentioned would put words in the users mouth and attack that while avoiding the actual point. It happened several times. Heck for some proof of that just check out that Javon Walker trade thread from a year or so ago.

Not arguing that point Z2C, we pretty much expect some people to turn every issue around to fit their own perspective. I can name several who will turn every one around to praise TT, and several who will turn every one around to blame TT.

I guess I just don't see how that is worse than someone calling another person a "****head" or a "Fing Puke".

I'm betting that they aren't banned because its not something that we see regularly from them. However, if it becomes something we can expect from those users, I'm sure they will be handled just as the other user was handled when it became expected of their consistent tirades.

Zero,
To you and others here I will apologize for reacting in the manner I did but I would like to point out my original post was not offensive or directed at anybody.
I think I have shown enough level headedness to determine when someone has completely overstepped the line and if I saw something like this happen to you or others here I would pipe in as well.

I have seen posting that builds to boiling point and the top comes off but seldom see someone just make a direct and unprovoked attack with no prior little inuendo's leading up to it.

I could have come back with nothing but I would like to know who in here would have gone there if they came in here and saw what I saw. Especially regarding a very generic post that did not have a single inflamatory statement aimed at anybody.

If I jump anyone here like that feel free to put me on the road but don't ask me to get cold clocked and just stand there. I would take a ban first.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Zero,
To you and others here I will apologize for reacting in the manner I did but I would like to point out my original post was not offensive or directed at anybody.
I think I have shown enough level headedness to determine when someone has completely overstepped the line and if I saw something like this happen to you or others here I would pipe in as well.

I have seen posting that builds to boiling point and the top comes off but seldom see someone just make a direct and unprovoked attack with no prior little inuendo's leading up to it.

I could have come back with nothing but I would like to know who in here would have gone there if they came in here and saw what I saw. Especially regarding a very generic post that did not have a single inflamatory statement aimed at anybody.

If I jump anyone here like that feel free to put me on the road but don't ask me to get cold clocked and just stand there. I would take a ban first.

As I was saying, its not something you often do so I don't see it being a huge problem. I'm quite the same as you in the respect that if someone jumps me, I'm gonna jump back even if it means I get banned. The problem with that is some people here (ahem) know this about myself and a few others so they push the envelope inch by inch provoking us.


I think this issue/non issue is washed up and done. You guys did your business and its over. Often times people need to lash out and have things get worse before it can get better. Its jus how somethings are in life, I think.

 

[cheesey]

Tileman - My bad. I misread what you were getting at and misjudged you. Now I see where you're coming from.

Actually, please do post those stats. They're extremely relevant to this discussion. I'll readily admit my judgment about Favre is cloudy due to the fact that I've been a Packer fan since the mid-70s, and before Favre, we were horrible. So needless to say, I'm a little biased.

Here's a couple of links that show his decline. An acquittance of my that his is own site has made up his own rating stat for QB's , it has to do with close games and 4th qtr performance, it's a great stat, but he's in the process of copy writing it, so I have to get his permission to post it here first, just haven't had a chance to ask him yet.

BTW, just to reiterate, I'm not a Favre hater, I love they guy, just don't believe he's in the Packers best interest for the future, JMO.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pEPvKoQlbbjL6Diao_aaMbQ&gid=0

http://www.twominutewarning.com/xxred.htm

I agree.......for the long term future, Favre is NOT the answer. But to win THIS season, I think he still is. There is plenty of time to see what Rodgers can do. I sure won't be hurt by a swan song by Favre. And hopefully he can give us alot to cheer about! With the new and improved "D" it might be an exciting year!

 

[cheesey]

It still amazes me how quickly some people want to get rid of the best QB the Packers have ever had, to turn to an absolute unknown. If the guy was total trash, then i'd agree with you. But he still has a heck of an arm, and IF he has someone (other then just Driver) to throw the ball to, and a LITTLE time to throw, he STILL can get the job done.
I can't help but wonder how old Tileman is. I don't know, but i bet he is young and USED to having the Brett Favre at his prime.
I lived through the 1970's and 80's where we would have KILLED to have a QB as good as Favre is NOW, at the end of his career. Look around the NFL and see just how many QB's have played, and been thrown aside by all the other teams since Favre came here. I for one, am NOT in a hurry to see how far the Packers drop after Brett retires.
I remember at the end of Bart Starr's career, he was awful. He was a shell of his former self, plus had NO play makers left. He should have retired earlier. But Favre is not at that point yet. He still has the skills in my view.

LOL... We drafted John Hadl late in his career just to try to get someone like Brett. Me personally, I really don't want to relive the Randy Wright experience. Never again see the likes of a TJ Rubley fumble away a game. The Rich Campbell project or any other of the Whitehurst's that have taken the field over the years.

Someday soon Mister Favre will hang them up, but lets not try to forget what we take for granted each time #4 steps onto the field.

This is what i'm saying. I for one lived through the lean years. I'm in no hurry to push Favre off the field, until he SHOWS that he doesn't have "it" anymore.
When we got Hadl, he was already WAAAAAAY over the hill, and halfway up the next. That was a HUGE blunder. Favre, in my eyes at least, is not washed up yet.
Now.....he may show this coming season that he's done, but i would NOT bet against him!

I wasn't alive for the Hadl trade (I'm only 26), but my dad sure throws a fit everytime I bring it up in conversation. :rotflmao:

I do remember the Randy Wright experiment though. Oh how I have to absolutely laugh remembering the time he fainted on the metrodump terf during a game against the Vikings. That alone just goes to show you how cursed Packer fans were during that span.

As far as Brett hanging them up, I'm not ready to rush him out the door if he wants to come back, but I still feel a strong urge to see what we have in Aaron Rodgers. The only way we're going to see that though is if Brett retires, and if Brett retires after this season, he should have the TD record at the least and hopefully Marino's yardage record as well and can cap a successful 16 year tenure as the Packers starting QB.

LOL! I can understand your Dad getting upset! Hadl was one of the biggest wastes of draft picks in the Packer history!
We could go down the list of Packer QB's from the 1970's and 80's, and all of them combined don't add up to Favre. I want to see him out there one more year, then he can ride off into the sunset.

 

[dhpackr]

It still amazes me how quickly some people want to get rid of the best QB the Packers have ever had, to turn to an absolute unknown. If the guy was total trash, then i'd agree with you. But he still has a heck of an arm, and IF he has someone (other then just Driver) to throw the ball to, and a LITTLE time to throw, he STILL can get the job done.
I can't help but wonder how old Tileman is. I don't know, but i bet he is young and USED to having the Brett Favre at his prime.
I lived through the 1970's and 80's where we would have KILLED to have a QB as good as Favre is NOW, at the end of his career. Look around the NFL and see just how many QB's have played, and been thrown aside by all the other teams since Favre came here. I for one, am NOT in a hurry to see how far the Packers drop after Brett retires.
I remember at the end of Bart Starr's career, he was awful. He was a shell of his former self, plus had NO play makers left. He should have retired earlier. But Favre is not at that point yet. He still has the skills in my view.

LOL... We drafted John Hadl late in his career just to try to get someone like Brett. Me personally, I really don't want to relive the Randy Wright experience. Never again see the likes of a TJ Rubley fumble away a game. The Rich Campbell project or any other of the Whitehurst's that have taken the field over the years.

Someday soon Mister Favre will hang them up, but lets not try to forget what we take for granted each time #4 steps onto the field.

This is what i'm saying. I for one lived through the lean years. I'm in no hurry to push Favre off the field, until he SHOWS that he doesn't have "it" anymore.
When we got Hadl, he was already WAAAAAAY over the hill, and halfway up the next. That was a HUGE blunder. Favre, in my eyes at least, is not washed up yet.
Now.....he may show this coming season that he's done, but i would NOT bet against him!

I wasn't alive for the Hadl trade (I'm only 26), but my dad sure throws a fit everytime I bring it up in conversation. :rotflmao:

I do remember the Randy Wright experiment though. Oh how I have to absolutely laugh remembering the time he fainted on the metrodump terf during a game against the Vikings. That alone just goes to show you how cursed Packer fans were during that span.

As far as Brett hanging them up, I'm not ready to rush him out the door if he wants to come back, but I still feel a strong urge to see what we have in Aaron Rodgers. The only way we're going to see that though is if Brett retires, and if Brett retires after this season, he should have the TD record at the least and hopefully Marino's yardage record as well and can cap a successful 16 year tenure as the Packers starting QB.

LOL! I can understand your Dad getting upset! Hadl was one of the biggest wastes of draft picks in the Packer history!
We could go down the list of Packer QB's from the 1970's and 80's, and all of them combined don't add up to Favre. I want to see him out there one more year, then he can ride off into the sunset.

i believe that trade cost Dan Devine his job and his dog!

 

[cheesey]

Thats right! I forgot! His poor dog.....heck, it wasn't the dogs fault!!!!
Dan was not so "Divine" after all, hey? :thumbsup:
(I heard he changed his name to Dan "Not-so-great" after that blunder!) :rotflmao:

 

[dhpackr]

Thats right! I forgot! His poor dog.....heck, it wasn't the dogs fault!!!!
Dan was not so "Divine" after all, hey? :thumbsup:
(I heard he changed his name to Dan "Not-so-great" after that blunder!) :rotflmao:

:thumbsup: do you remember who the Packers were trying to court besides Devine?
Joe Paterno, Joe Pa was on his way to GB, when in the airport, he decided against the move to the NFL and stayed at Penn State