Favre's status
- Thread starter Zombieslayer
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millertime
Cheesehead
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Brett is not the best QB in the league anymore. I don't think anyone believes that. IMO, he is a top 7 QB. If you could have one QB, to win one game today, my list looks like this...
1a. Tom Brady
1b. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Carson Palmer
5. D. McNabb
6. Bulger
7. Favre
8. Hasselbeck
9. Green
10. Pennington
11. Rivers
1a. Tom Brady
1b. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Carson Palmer
5. D. McNabb
6. Bulger
7. Favre
8. Hasselbeck
9. Green
10. Pennington
11. Rivers
PackerGeek
Cheesehead
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You’re right, Brett may not be one of the top ten quarterbacks in the league anymore. But guess what, 2/3’s of the teams in this league don’t have a top ten quarterback. Maybe statistically speaking Grossman put up better numbers than Brett, But if Brett had Devon Hester to give in field position and a speed receiver like Bernard Barrion last year like Grossman did his stats would have blown Grossman’s out of the water. Statistics are just raw data, you have to look at the surrounding factors that affected that data to draw any real conclusions from it. Regardless of how much better you think Grossman or Kitna is than Brett the last time I checked neither of them was under contract for the Green Bay Packers. If Aaron Rodgers or Ingle Martin were or are able to take the starting position from Brett than so be it, until then Brett should be our starter. I know a lot of people think that the packers owe it to Rodgers to give him a chance to play to see how good he is. But really they owe it to the fans who are paying to sit and watch the game to put out the best players who are on the roster. I personally am not willing to pay $80 to sit in the stands and watch Aaron Rodgers get a chance to develop. And believe me I shelled out for 2 games last year and never saw them score a point in either game, but I at least never felt the team had just stopped trying and had decided to make it a training opportunity.
I will agree that we probably shouldn’t look at the last bears game as reflective of how good this team is. As I recall we barely squeaked past a pretty sorry Vikings team the week prior. I know some people argue that the bears had nothing to play for so they weren’t really trying but I can‘t buy that. Football players are professional competitors who have made it to the highest level in their field. Very few people could accomplish that if they weren’t driven to want to win every game no matter how meaningless. I know there are some like that, but you certainly would never find more than 1 or 2 on a team who don’t give it their all no matter what. Regardless you can’t look at that game and not see that the packers were a different team than they had been. They ran better routes. The ball was on time and where it should be every time. Defense was on fire and special teams players stayed in their lanes and made tackles. The problem is that they hadn’t played to that level all year so I can’t say it’s indicative how good they are. What it is, is indicative how good they could be. So in that respect its is something to build on.
Okay I’m done rambling now
I will agree that we probably shouldn’t look at the last bears game as reflective of how good this team is. As I recall we barely squeaked past a pretty sorry Vikings team the week prior. I know some people argue that the bears had nothing to play for so they weren’t really trying but I can‘t buy that. Football players are professional competitors who have made it to the highest level in their field. Very few people could accomplish that if they weren’t driven to want to win every game no matter how meaningless. I know there are some like that, but you certainly would never find more than 1 or 2 on a team who don’t give it their all no matter what. Regardless you can’t look at that game and not see that the packers were a different team than they had been. They ran better routes. The ball was on time and where it should be every time. Defense was on fire and special teams players stayed in their lanes and made tackles. The problem is that they hadn’t played to that level all year so I can’t say it’s indicative how good they are. What it is, is indicative how good they could be. So in that respect its is something to build on.
Okay I’m done rambling now
PWT36
Cheesehead
packGeek. Excellent post enjoyed your rambling.
Remember that Bear QB Rex Grossman had a very excellent veteran Bear team surrounding him. The Bear team made it to the Super Bowl last year. When THE game was on the line, the Bear defense and offense fail to do the job and lost to the Colts.
The "06 Packers probably had , one of the the most inexperienced teams in NFL last year . with around 28 Rookies, first year and second year players on the roster. This '07 year could be a lot different with a more experienced Packer team. The young Packer players with another Training camp and a year ('06) of regular NFL game experience "under their belts" could make a great difference in their performances on the field. in '07'
Maybe some of the '07 Packer draftees can also "step up" and contribute on the playing field to this '07 Packer team.
Remember that Bear QB Rex Grossman had a very excellent veteran Bear team surrounding him. The Bear team made it to the Super Bowl last year. When THE game was on the line, the Bear defense and offense fail to do the job and lost to the Colts.
The "06 Packers probably had , one of the the most inexperienced teams in NFL last year . with around 28 Rookies, first year and second year players on the roster. This '07 year could be a lot different with a more experienced Packer team. The young Packer players with another Training camp and a year ('06) of regular NFL game experience "under their belts" could make a great difference in their performances on the field. in '07'
Maybe some of the '07 Packer draftees can also "step up" and contribute on the playing field to this '07 Packer team.
A lot of if's and buts in there, what if Grossman had DD or Jenning's, what if Grossman receivers led the NFL in YAC like Favre's did. What if Favre didn't lead the league in poor passes.
I believe it's the Packers job as an organization to build a winning franchise for the future, and not worry about how much fans are paying now. Some times difficult decisions have to be made for the good of the teams future. I also believe this will be the last year Brett will be will be the Packers starting QB unless his play drastically improves. He will have all the records good and bad that are within reach and I believe that will be enough for his ride off into the sunset.
As far as the Bears game goes, I totally disagree with your analysis that these guys are professionals at the highest level so they always give it their all. I think the parody in makes it very easy for a lesser team to beat a much better team that isn't focused on the game they are playing. It's not like wins like the Packers over the Bears don't happen all the time at the end of the year when the superior team is looking ahead to the playoffs. It was a good win, and a fun win, but I really don't think it showed us anything more then the win over Seattle did the year before last.
I totally understand my opinion isn't a popular one with most Packer fans when it comes to Favre. I thought these forums were to discuss opinions. If all you want here is pro Favre comments, that's fine.
I don't think anyone wants just pro Favre comments. I don't hate you because your opinion of him is different then mine. You make some good points in my view. I guess i just see the glass as half full as apposed to half empty.
As far as building for the future. Do you think the Packers should just scrap this coming season in HOPES that Rodgers will be good? Because if they sit Favre, thats what will happen in my view. It usually takes at least a couple seasons for a QB to become decent when they take over a starting QB position. So 2007 would be a throw away season, where i honestly think that with a better D and a few more options for Favre to throw to, we do really have a good shot at the playoffs, and maybe even better surprises.
Just my opinion of course, only time will tell if i was right or wrong.
As far as building for the future. Do you think the Packers should just scrap this coming season in HOPES that Rodgers will be good? Because if they sit Favre, thats what will happen in my view. It usually takes at least a couple seasons for a QB to become decent when they take over a starting QB position. So 2007 would be a throw away season, where i honestly think that with a better D and a few more options for Favre to throw to, we do really have a good shot at the playoffs, and maybe even better surprises.
Just my opinion of course, only time will tell if i was right or wrong.
Pack93z
You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime
I completely respect your opinion... just think that Brett is our best option to win this year. I am not a fan of foregoing a season to building to the future. You build your future depth with the backups and put your best players in the postions to affect the game the most. My opinion.. Brett is better than Rodgers.. when that changes we wish Brett the best.
PackerGeek
Cheesehead
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Your right there are a lot of ifs and buts in there. Thats because Favre and Grossman didn't play in identical game situations with identical teams. I therefore had to interpret the contributing factors and determine what the statistics actually mean. I'm sure you did the same thing when you drew your conclusion that Favre was too old. Clearly we just came to different conclusions. I never said you didn't have the right to your opinion or the right to discuss your opinion all I did was disagree with it your opinion and laid out why. My post was not meant to be as a response to any person in particular it was just a general post about my thoughts on the topic.
As for how we handle the futur the way I see it I'm the consumer and the packers owe it to me to put the best product they can on the feild each day. It's up to them to find a way to improve the future product without effecting the current one. You wouldn't allow any other company to sell you a deficient product so they prepare for the future.
I aplogize if this sounds cranky I don't really post on these boards a lot and somehow whenever I put my opinions in writing I sound crank even though I don't mena to.
OP
OP
Zombieslayer
Cheesehead
If Favre were QB of da Bears in '06, da Bears would have walked away with the Lombardi.
I have no idea how the hell Grossman got compared to Favre in this thread. That's definitely trolling if I ever saw trolling.
I have no idea how the hell Grossman got compared to Favre in this thread. That's definitely trolling if I ever saw trolling.
Pack93z
You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime
Yes it is PFT article, however I think it makes the point of the effort it might take to replace a once in a lifetime QB... hence the reason for wanting Favre to stay as long as possible. Take the good with the Bad with Favre.... but the man has passion, love of the game, and still makes plays that few make.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
FRUITLESS SEARCH FOR MARINO SUCCESSOR CONTINUES
Since Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Marino retired after the 1999 season, the team had burned plenty of draft picks in an effort to replace him.
In 2000, they dealt a seventh-round pick for Jim Druckenmiller.
In 2001, they sacrificed a 2002 sixth-rounder and a conditional seventh-rounder in 2003, and received in return Cade McNown and a 2002 seventh-rounder.
In 2002, they gave up a 2003 seventh-rounder for Sage Rosenfels.
In 2004, they sent a 2005 second-rounder to the Eagles for A.J. Feeley.
In 2005, they shipped Feeley and a 2006 sixth-rounder to San Diego for Cleo Lemon.
In 2006, they sent a 2006 second-rounder to Minnesota for Daunte Culpepper.
In 2006, they sent a sixth-rounder to Detroit, which upgraded to a fifth-rounder, for Joey Harrington.
Now, in 2007, the Fins have sent a fifth-rounder, which could move to a fourth-rounder, for Trent Green.
But it could be the second-round pick that the team used in April to obtain former BYU quarterback John Beck that could bring this cycle to an end. Once Beck ascends to the job after the Green era concludes, he could hold the job for more than a year or two, which would allow the Dolphins to use their draft picks on something other than finding the next quarterback who, in the end, couldn't get it done.
The irony here is that, when Marino was playing, the team's defense generally wasn't good enough to propel the team to the highest levels of success. After Marino left, the defense became dominant. And now that the pendulum on offense could be swinging back the other way, we've got a feeling that the defense will gradually begin to slide backward.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
FRUITLESS SEARCH FOR MARINO SUCCESSOR CONTINUES
Since Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Marino retired after the 1999 season, the team had burned plenty of draft picks in an effort to replace him.
In 2000, they dealt a seventh-round pick for Jim Druckenmiller.
In 2001, they sacrificed a 2002 sixth-rounder and a conditional seventh-rounder in 2003, and received in return Cade McNown and a 2002 seventh-rounder.
In 2002, they gave up a 2003 seventh-rounder for Sage Rosenfels.
In 2004, they sent a 2005 second-rounder to the Eagles for A.J. Feeley.
In 2005, they shipped Feeley and a 2006 sixth-rounder to San Diego for Cleo Lemon.
In 2006, they sent a 2006 second-rounder to Minnesota for Daunte Culpepper.
In 2006, they sent a sixth-rounder to Detroit, which upgraded to a fifth-rounder, for Joey Harrington.
Now, in 2007, the Fins have sent a fifth-rounder, which could move to a fourth-rounder, for Trent Green.
But it could be the second-round pick that the team used in April to obtain former BYU quarterback John Beck that could bring this cycle to an end. Once Beck ascends to the job after the Green era concludes, he could hold the job for more than a year or two, which would allow the Dolphins to use their draft picks on something other than finding the next quarterback who, in the end, couldn't get it done.
The irony here is that, when Marino was playing, the team's defense generally wasn't good enough to propel the team to the highest levels of success. After Marino left, the defense became dominant. And now that the pendulum on offense could be swinging back the other way, we've got a feeling that the defense will gradually begin to slide backward.
I was watching on TV where they were talking about this very point, about how Miami hasn't found a decent QB since Marino. Thats one BIG reason why I'm not in such a hurry to push Brett out the door. It may be decades before, if EVER, we get another great QB.
But recent history has shown, it takes more of a mistake free QB, then a great QB. These days over coming turnovers is damn near impossible. Look at the stats, turnovers are one of the most telling stats for wins and losses there are. Gunslinging days are long over, being smart and careful with the ball are far more important then being able to rifle the ball between 3 defenders.
I'm not going to bother with you, trying to make a point about someones hero just isn't worth the effort.
Several here have made good points to back up their opinion, I might not agree, but they've been civil and interesting. You IMO haven't been in that category.
You love Brett, and that's fine, I can leave it like that.
warhawk
Cheesehead
This franchise has not been ready for Rodgers. We were a lousy team in '05 and way to young for a QB that has never started a game last year.
We stick a guy in there like that and he could be ruined before he get's a chance. How many top picks that go to lousy teams need to bomb out before this becomes a pattern?
My view is this is the first year anyone could say maybe it's his time from the point that the team is more ready now and I am sure if the staff thought ARod would give them a better chance to win that would happen.
If the season moves along and doesn't go well and Brett doesn't go well you can expect to see ARod in there and unless BF retires that's exactly how it should be played out.
IF the team is playing well BF will bring it home 90% of the time. He has played lousy when the team was playing well but only on occasion. He DOES play lousy often when the team plays lousy. You don't sit a QB good enough to win weekly MVP honors on a team starting like five first year players on offense.
Going into last year NOBODY would have said BF would win a weekly MVP award with a lineup that young.
We stick a guy in there like that and he could be ruined before he get's a chance. How many top picks that go to lousy teams need to bomb out before this becomes a pattern?
My view is this is the first year anyone could say maybe it's his time from the point that the team is more ready now and I am sure if the staff thought ARod would give them a better chance to win that would happen.
If the season moves along and doesn't go well and Brett doesn't go well you can expect to see ARod in there and unless BF retires that's exactly how it should be played out.
IF the team is playing well BF will bring it home 90% of the time. He has played lousy when the team was playing well but only on occasion. He DOES play lousy often when the team plays lousy. You don't sit a QB good enough to win weekly MVP honors on a team starting like five first year players on offense.
Going into last year NOBODY would have said BF would win a weekly MVP award with a lineup that young.
My opinion on the whole situation is this.TT dont want this team to succeed with BF at qb thus the crappy draft and no Fa pickups.Did anyone else notice this and wonder ,last year Brett sat and was deciding if he was gonna play and TT got FA's to help the team this year Brett says hes back early and TT does nothing things that make you go hmmmm.I also have been reading all this crap about Arod as people are calling him and i sit and laugh.If Arod would have been in any of the last 2 drafts he would have been a 2nd or 3 rd qb but you all think hes the answer.Have any of you actually watched him play when he got in hes terrible and that was against backups.The packers are after the 1st pick in the draft next year and im very saddened on how everyone is turning on Brett.He may not be able to carry the team anymore but is there any Qb that can.I also laughed hard when people compared Grossman and Brett they are close.
Groosman 3193 yds 54 % completetion 23 tds 23 ints and 73.9 rating.
Now for brett on the youngest team in the nfl , 3885 yds 56% completetion 18tds and 18 ints with a 72.7 rating.Now in my opinion you switch there teams and Brett is MVP and the bears win the superbowl and grossman would have been benched for Arod and thats bad lol.I'm still hoping Brett turns around the day before the first game and says he retires and leaves TT crying and all you arod fans going nooooo now we are stuck with a crappy over rated QB.
Groosman 3193 yds 54 % completetion 23 tds 23 ints and 73.9 rating.
Now for brett on the youngest team in the nfl , 3885 yds 56% completetion 18tds and 18 ints with a 72.7 rating.Now in my opinion you switch there teams and Brett is MVP and the bears win the superbowl and grossman would have been benched for Arod and thats bad lol.I'm still hoping Brett turns around the day before the first game and says he retires and leaves TT crying and all you arod fans going nooooo now we are stuck with a crappy over rated QB.
I don't believe that TT doesn't want the team to succeed. If that was the case, he would have either traded or released Favre.
TT is the guy in charge, and I don't think he cares if fans love him or hate him. So letting Favre go would have ben what he would have done if he wanted the team to go in the dumper.
If he didn't want to win, he would have called Favre and told him not to come back this season.
TT is the guy in charge, and I don't think he cares if fans love him or hate him. So letting Favre go would have ben what he would have done if he wanted the team to go in the dumper.
If he didn't want to win, he would have called Favre and told him not to come back this season.
