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Brees versus Rodgers by the Numbers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackwillBEback, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. Jules
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    Jules The Colts Fan

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    Some people really like themselves a cool Brees.
  2. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Brees doesn't have a better defense than Rodgers.

    New Orleans is worse in points per game (21.2 to 21.5), QB rating (78.3 to 86.9), and it's not even close in turnovers, as GB is #1 with 40 forced turnovers (not counting fumbles recovered) and NO is dead last, with 14. NO is ahead in freaking yards allowed, and that's it (it's also ahead in sacks, with 4 more). And even in that category NO is 26th.

    NO's defense is basically the GB's defense, but without the turnovers.

    People are quick to complain about GB's defense but they don't look at others'...
  3. morningwood
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    morningwood Cheesehead

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    It's a fallacy to say that Drew is never pulled, or that he's padding stats in blowouts.

    Drew's last pass against the Giants came with over 12:00 minutes left in the 4th.

    Drew's last pass against MN came with over 13:00 left.

    Drew did not throw a pass in the 4th against Indy.
  4. Jules
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    Jules The Colts Fan

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    So....who do people think honestly wins it? And please no co-mvp crap.

    Brady currently has a shoulder injury. How serious who knows. He will play though. If he has a monster game vs. the stellar Bills defense you might hear what a warrior he was for it.

    Now Brees could also easily carve up the pathetic Panthers D assuming he plays the whole game.

    Now with Aaron he will have it the toughest of the 3 vs. Suh and his morons and the Lions are an actual playoff team. And Aaron may not even play that long for all we know. I still don't know the Packers are gonna do but with Suh and the gang they may play it safer.

    Often voters love the last thing they see. Fair or not.

    Can Aaron still hang on and win the MVP if he has say 1 TD or none against the Lions before being pulled and Brady tears up the Bills and Brees the Panthers?
  5. Jules
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    Jules The Colts Fan

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    A true team QB. He wants Matt to also have a shot to show what he can do. His team is more important then just record chasing or stats.

    *wipes tear from eye*
  6. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think Rodgers will win it and I dont think it will be as close as a lot of people think. The efficiency he has had all year is something that's never been seen before. I think the voters will honor that.
  7. PackerChamps
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    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    The reason I would favor even Brady over Brees if Rodgers is taken out of the equation is where they play.

    Brees plays in a climate controlled environment which I feel accounts for 800 - 1000 of his yards.

    I say this by looking at his stats SD vs NO. below. His yardarge jumped 800 his first year there and has pretty much stayed at that increased level. If you put Rodgers or Brady in a dome, I would expect their yardage and completions to go up significantly.
    SEASON TEAM
    GP​
    CMP​
    ATT​
    CMP%​
    YDS​
    AVG​
    TD​
    LNG​
    INT​
    FUM​
    RAT​
    2001
    1​
    15​
    27​
    55.6​
    221​
    8.19​
    1​
    40​
    0​
    2​
    94.8​
    2002
    16​
    320​
    526​
    60.8​
    3,284​
    6.24​
    17​
    52​
    16​
    2​
    76.9​
    2003
    11​
    205​
    356​
    57.6​
    2,108​
    5.92​
    11​
    68​
    15​
    4​
    67.5​
    2004
    15​
    262​
    400​
    65.5​
    3,159​
    7.90​
    27​
    79​
    7​
    4​
    104.8​
    2005
    16​
    323​
    500​
    64.6​
    3,576​
    7.15​
    24​
    54​
    15​
    8​
    89.2​
    2006
    16​
    356​
    554​
    64.3​
    4,418​
    7.98​
    26​
    86​
    11​
    5​
    96.2​
    2007
    16​
    440​
    652​
    67.5​
    4,423​
    6.78​
    28​
    58​
    18​
    8​
    89.4​
    2008
    16​
    413​
    635​
    65.0​
    5,069​
    7.98​
    34​
    84​
    17​
    1​
    96.2​
    2009
    15​
    363​
    514​
    70.6​
    4,388​
    8.54​
    34​
    75​
    11​
    9​
    109.6​
    2010
    16​
    448​
    658​
    68.1​
    4,620​
    7.02​
    33​
    80​
    22​
    9​
    90.9​
    2011
    15​
    440​
    622​
    70.7​
    5,087​
    8.18​
    41​
    79​
    13​
    0​
    108.4​
  8. Ceodore
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    Ceodore Cheesehead

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    ^ Something happened to your post.

    I have a bad feeling Brees is going to win even though I dont think he should.
  9. morningwood
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    morningwood Cheesehead

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    I would think that Drew's numbers went up in NOLA for reasons other than the stadium. You are necessarily putting a lot of emphasis on the turf since San Diego's weather is near perfect at any given moment of the year.
  10. Jules
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    Jules The Colts Fan

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    http://www.patriotledger.com/mobile...ive-Brady-the-credit-but-give-Rodgers-the-MVP

  11. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Okay, I really want to know. Where do people get this asinine idea that the Saints defense is better than ours? We give up less than 30 yards more per game. We have allowed fewer points. We have more than twice as many turnovers and about 30 more passes defended. They have 5 or 6 more sacks.

    Anyone who thinks their defense is better than ours is simply not paying attention.
  12. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    So Brees should win because he has completed about 3% more of his passes??? Even though Rodgers completely out-performs him in every single other efficiency statistic (td/int ratio, td/attemps, int/attempts, qb rating)? You think 3% is all that matters? REALLY? I sure hope you're being facetious, otherwise that's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

    BTW, our run game is just fine. We simply don't use it that much.
  13. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    After last week it's down to about a 2% difference in completion %. Brees is at 70.7 and Rodgers at 68.3. But really and honestly Packer fans, if they give the MVP to Brees there's no reason to raise hell. Yes Rodgers probably deserves it more but Brees also deserves it. It may be a situation like Raji. How did Raji make the pro bowl? It was sort of a lifetime award thing. Brees should have won the MVP before but got snubbed. They may give it to him this time partly for that reason. I'm not saying that it's totally for non-football reasons that they give Brees the MVP, but that the non-football reasons may tip the scales in his direction because he has had such a great season.

    And regarding the Saints defense, they have shown improvement mainly against the run. They are defending the run much better than the Packers atm, so yes, there is a case for the Saints playing better defense right now. Passing defense is another story. Saints suck on pass defense as much as we do.

    Bogart: I'm not sure I agree with you that Rodgers has thrown more TD's than Brees because the Saints run it in more. Rodgers has 3 rushing TDs. Brees has 1. Brees actually gets more chances than Rodgers, you can't ignore that when you start making claims like that.
  14. morningwood
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    morningwood Cheesehead

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    I am actually very pleased with the way our defense is playing. I would love to see more pressure from our front 4, but even that has improved. We certainly need more turnovers.

    The old adage "the numbers don't lie" doesn't always apply to football. The situation can lead to some skewed numbers -- and of course that applies to the Pack as well. Our secondary is a lot better than one might think just looking at numbers.
  15. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Not sure where I see the improvement on the pass rush. McCown wasn't pressured at all. Neither was Orton. Orton had all day. Both Chicago and KC ran the ball very well and used play-action off of that with very good results.
  16. Greenbayphil
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    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    I think the problem is whilst rodgers was playing his best football from weeks 1-11 roughly, he was playing at a level no other QB was palying at, since the Giants game he has taken a slight dip in his productivity whilst Brees has maintained the same level of play all year round.

    Its just when they were both playing at a high level, Rodgers was playing at a level brees couldnt keep up with, thats why half way through the season Rodgers would have been and was the unanimous MVP.

    I still think both of them deserve to get the MVP but as far as Im concerned Rodgers has had a better year.

    Main reason?

    He has thrown for more TD's and less INT's
  17. PackwillBEback
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    PackwillBEback Cheesehead

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    I'm just reporting the facts...the numbers :).
  18. Vladimirr
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    Vladimirr Cheesehead

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    Brees is a great player, worthy of a lot of respect.

    However Rodgers is 14-1 (Engineered a 19-game winning streak) and leads passer rating by a mile (looking to break the season record). Even in that new QBR that faults a QB for not falling behind in score, he's the season leader. Not sure how you could argue that a player is more valuable to their team this year.
  19. Ceodore
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    Ceodore Cheesehead

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    This is what I'm talking about.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...saints-record-breaking-offense-seals-the-deal

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7383377/overlook-brees-nfl-mvp

    And these are from people who probably have votes.
  20. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Dont think the bleacher reporter has a vote, by the"reporters" name, he is a Lions fan

    So how is it a non voter from Bleacher and a ESPN reporter that says Rodgers will win translates to Brees will win it?
  21. morningwood
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    morningwood Cheesehead

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    I think one thing that will hurt Rodgers is he hates cancer victims.





    ;)
  22. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    What non-football reasons?

    Our pass defense is much better than theirs. We only give up 7 more yards per game than they do. But we also have 21 more interceptions than they do and we've defensed about 25 more passes than they have.

    They have run the ball 25 more times than we have, or 1.67 more rushes per game, or 0.41 more rushes per quarter (in other words, not enough to make a difference).

    Brees has thrown the ball 97 more times than Rodgers (mostly because his coaching staff wanted him to get Marino's record and they NEVER pulled him from a game). If you extrapolate Rodgers stats to match the attempts Brees has had, which is something most MVP voters do when comparing two players, Rodgers blows him out of the water. And yes, it is completely valid to do so because number of attempts is not something players generally have much control over.
  23. PackerChamps
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    PackerChamps Cheesehead

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    Of course, San Diego and NO have exactly the same field. Neither have any wind and it never rains on either field :confused:.

    Last time I checked, Philip Rivers took that Brees team through quite a few playoff trips so I don't think it was loaded with rejects. The first year Brees arrived at NO he went over 4000 yards and never below it. He never topped 4000 in his years at SD. Also, except for 1, his complete pct has been higher in each year than any at SD.

    I like Brees and he is good, but he doesn't deserve it over Rodgers this year or even over Brady for that matter.
  24. Ceodore
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    Ceodore Cheesehead

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    Both say AR will probably win but both think Brees should. And the voter more or less said she would be voting for Brees.

    There are going to be a lot of voters with the mentality of, I'm afraid, that "AR had the better year but Brees broke the record and he's a pretty stand up guy, so we should give it to him anyway." I can see enough people saying "well AR will win, but i kindof think Brees deserves it too so i'll just vote for him." Then all of the sudden AR loses.
  25. Greenbayphil
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    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    Why not brady?
    Id be picking Brees over Brady any day.

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