Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackwillBEback, Dec 28, 2011.
That arguing with someone who honestly believes that one of these quarterbacks is head and shoulders above the other leads to some pretty silly results.
Not sure what ^ was in reference too, but both of these guys are A+ QBs and there's not a lot of difference at all between the two.
I do like that Rodgers is about 6 years younger though.
Well, you see, it all comes down to how they define MVP. The way some people interperate it is that how important someone is to a team. Since Colts went from a playoff team to a last place team without Manning isn't Manning verryyyy important to that team. And yeah, like the Warner situation too^.
Manning won't get mvp obvously but I can see why some people would make a case.
No. I'm saying that the "yardage" argument is stupid. Brees has 150+ more attempts, he should have more yards. Rodgers has been the MVP all season and is taking a lot of heat for a late season loss to the Chiefs. Is that loss any more/less damaging than the Saints losses to Tampa Bay and St. Louis?
If "records" make strong arguments for MVP, then why not bring up Rodgers' passer rating. 122+ is a new record for a season.
GreenBlood seems to think that the numbers are so overwhelmingly in favor of Rodgers that even to try to compare the two is "dumb." Personally, I think that it's silly to be that dogmatic in one's position that one is greater than the other.
IDK, who said that should not be considerd?
I never said either QB was better than the other. They are the two best. But you can only vote for one or the other and the fact remains that Rodgers has had a statistically better season. Brees will probably have a better season next year.
You don't think throwing a TD for every 11.1 pass attempts is significantly better than a TD every 14.6 attempts? You don't think throwing an INT once every 83.6 attempts is significantly better than an INT every 46.9 attempts? He also has 1 more win than Brees. He also had a run of 20 consecutive wins going back to last year (don't think they won't consider that).
This isn't about which QB is better. It's about which deserves the MVP this year. Do some reading around the sports blogs and such. While there is no absolute consensus, the general trend toward Rodgers is clear.
Saints Passing offense is based around alot of complicated quick outs, and screens...though they certainly can pass the ball deep...that isnt their primary goal. The packers passing offense is designed to set up 20+ yard passes. This is the reason why Rodgers has more yards per attempt. If Rodgers were to play for NO his yards per attempt would certainly drop because thats how NO plays it. They waste time tiring out defenses, and running the ball for short tough yards. Brees's yards per attempt would increase playing for GB. yards per attempt doesnt mean much unless its really low. a low YPA indicates a bad O line. They both deserve the MVP. One year co-mvp was between Steve McNair, and Peyton Manning. I see no problem with Brees and Rodgers making Co-Mvp. They both deserve it equally. They are both deadly accurate passers.
Brees is just as much of an MVP as Rodgers is this year
It seems that everyone is on "rodgers is better because" Rodgers would have more interceptions if he through the ball as much as brees did. Looking at the numbers he would of probably ended up with 10-11 interceptions on the season. still a bit better than brees, but nothing dramatic. Brees completed 71% of his passes with over 150 more pass attempts than Rodgers is insane. thats as accurate as you can ever get in the NFL. Lets also consider this fact. Rodgers had an easier schedule against pass def this year than Brees did.
Brees is a tad under 6'. Its that much harder for him to do what he did at the height he is. I have to give it up to the guy. Hes one great QB.
I love my Rodgers too. Even though he has a slight advantage in height. he plays outdoors. thats also tough
What im trying to say here is not whos better. I find them both equally good. Its the fact that you really cant compare numbers. There are way too many factors involved than just numbers.
Yeah it's too close. They jut shouldn't choose an MVP this year.
Chances the vote is split?
He did? Well, I stand corrected then. I looked at the stats for that game the other day, and Brees was the only QB listed. (Not sure why - and what you say makes sense, because his numbers were fairly average by his standards.)
I didn't realize they were sitting him that much. Honestly. That actually makes a difference to me, because it looks a little bit like there's some stat-padding going on down there - but maybe that's my imagination after all.
Agreed. I am baffled as to why Brady isn't being included in these conversations, if Brees is. I really don't get it. Brady has some great offensive weapons, but so do all three of them - I haven't watched a lot of New Orleans, but both Brady and Rodgers have had OLs that have had to be held together with duct tape.
Pretty remarkable with that, and with the #31 and #32 defenses, Rodgers and Brady both have their teams sitting in the One Seed Seat.
The Saints, in games that are well in hand, keep the starters in to run up the score and pad their statistics. Teams, in sure defeats to the Saints this season, watched as Brees stayed in.
That's what I thought too, but our friend here seems to be saying that isn't true. (I honestly do not get why their backup wasn't listed in the stat line for that game when I looked it up a few days ago. I must have been looking in the wrong place for complete listings or something.)
I was thinking this a lot lately too. Then today I kinda realized that maybe the Pats have not beaten many good teams this season. It was really a fortunate schedule for them. The only playoff team they have beaten is Tebow so far. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Brady did lose to the Giants too who Rodgers/Brees dismantled.
The NFC is really the hotter conference right now thats for sure. Many of the playoff games should be pretty intense.
Off subject. I think the packers should sacrifice their defense by trading everyone good for Calvin Johnson, and LeSean McCoy. Who needs a defense you will score 70pts each game?
Yes, it would be easy to draw that conclusion by looking at the stats -- Chase did not throw a pass that entire quarter. Si.com gives more information in a narrative form. There may be better sites than that one, but it covers the games in several different formats.
I have watched the games all year and, with the exception of the last couple of games, I have not seen any deliberate stat padding. Crazy things can happen in the NFL and if there is significant time on the clock you can't sit on, say a 17 point lead.
I am glad SP let, for example, Sproles get the touches to break the all purpose yardage record. IMO, that's a rare opportunity, so if you are going to have a decent relationship with the players you have to reward them in that situation.
I would be very interested in knowing exactly which games you are referring to, the point in the game in which you think Drew should have been pulled, and what numbers he accrued before he was actually pulled.
A good point re: Giants/quality opponents. Also have to keep in mind a point (though a very obvious one) Bedard made to someone on Twitter - you can only play the teams on your schedule. And I think Brady played hurt for a little while this year; not sure how he was feeling in that game, but I think he was hurt when they played the Steelers.
If it really matters that they finished with a weak schedule (thus came on strong in the last half, especially), I guess the playoffs could be interesting where they're concerned. Most of the AFC picture looks weak, to me...if I had to predict, I'd say they get through it.
They have been running up the score precisely to pad Brees' numbers!
No. Jimmy Graham's and Darren Sproles' too.
It does take away some of their credit, but Brees blew up so far past the mark that it didn't matter. And it's not like they're the first to do it, Marino did it himself after all.
1. Aaron Rodgers, QB, Green Bay Packers
Good QBs should throw very few INTs in the red zone, but this Rodgers stat is ridiculous: 30 TDs and one pick from inside the opponents' 20-yard line. Rodgers has 11 TDs with one INT on passes traveling more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage before the reception. He averages a league-leading 22.8 yards per attempt on these longer throws, according to ESPN Stats & Information. He has 10 TDs without a pick on throws from outside the pocket. Basically, Rodgers can beat any defense from anywhere on the field.
2. Drew Brees, QB, New Orleans Saints
All Brees did was set NFL records for passing yards (5,476), completion percentage (71.2), completions (468), first downs passing (278), 300-yard games (13) and consecutive 300-yard games (seven). Brees finished the season with 39 TDs and eight INTs on short and long throws. His ratio on intermediate passes -- those traveling 10-20 yards past the line of scrimmage -- was only 7-6, compared to 9-1 for Rodgers.
Ive been seeing this said alot. If the people want say that then dont be mad when people say Rodgers sitting out helped his passer rating since it sure as heck doesnt effect it. Granite, im not taking anything away from Rodgers at all, but sitting avoiding injury and avoiding possible mistakes that could be made is just a different way of padding stats when it comes to passer rating.
Im awaiting flames lol
Separate names with a comma.