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Are we really equipped to run a dominant 3-4?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Southpaw, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Yes he missed a season with an injury but has been pretty much injury free the past three seasons. That is not a hibitually injured player. And As I noted he was 7th among DT's.
  2. 13 Times Champs
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    Habitually: Too make familiar by frequent repetition.
  3. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    Dinged: a nagging injury. My definition. And yes he was habitually injured (17 games) and dinged (who knows how many for the Packers and at least 6 for the Eagles this year. Like I said. He would have been better than Neal for the Pack, but if he's so all fired valuable why are the Eagles right now considering giving him walking papers?
  4. 13 Times Champs
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    Your definition is self serving an inaccurate based on the common standard of definitions. Don't change the playing field by now offering dinged in place of habitual. Can't find that anywhere in the definition of Habitual. The Eagles are now interested in releasing him for salary reasons not performance.
  5. Croak
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    So are we to assume he couldn't perform up to the salary he was due? Otherwise, why release him for salary reasons?
  6. 13 Times Champs
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    Umm, because mostly everyone knew it was essentially a one year deal and they would take a hard look at the #'s after the 2011 season. But let's get back to that habitual thing you can't defend.
  7. Croak
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    It's a self serving definition because I used the term. I simply defined how I was using it. He is an injury risk. Now lets get back to the salary thing. He's supposedly one of their best players on defense (in your eyes). Why would he only be a one year deal? Why would they let him go when they are already shopping Samuel and Jackson?
  8. 13 Times Champs
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    Every player plays at the risk of injury. Do you deny your definition is different from the accepted definition of the term and Jenkins history the past three years does not fit it? The Eagles have salary cap problems. Do you also deny this? Also, tell me how Jenkins salary will effect that cap in 2012. I would appreciate an answer to all questions.
  9. Croak
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    First I don't deny I used "dinged" as I wanted to. Habitually still stands. Jenkins was listed on the Eagles injury report in various weeks for 1)triceps 2)knee 3)Thumb 4) groin. Now lets add other voices to the mix;


    Jenkins is a bit of a risk because of his age and injuries, but he’s been one of the more underrated linemen in the league for the last few years. Rod Marinelli and Lovie Smith have a solid track record squeezing production out of veteran linemen, and Jenkins would be a worthy guy to go after. – Rosenthal, NBC Sports

    At 30 years old, however, Jenkins in a significant injury risk. Not just because of his age but because of his history. – Adam Oestman, Bears Huddle

    However, most teams will factor in his injury history, and that may cause them to look elsewhere, opening the door for New England to sign him to a low-risk, high-reward kind of contract. – Bleacher Report

    Jenkins, who had seven sacks in 11 games last season, carries some risk, as he has suffered significant injuries in two of the past three seasons. – Denver Post

    And in an article on the Packers Defensive shortcomings, USA Today writes; Cullen Jenkins was too much of an injury risk and wouldn't be re-signed.

    But I guess I'm just making up this "false" injury risk thing.

  10. 13 Times Champs
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    Carrying some risk is different from actually incurring injuries don't you agree? You are citing sources that provide an opinion prior to the signing of him by the EAGLES. Need dates from the sources listed. Address the point that in reality he played three seasons missing six games. Is that not correct? None of this provides credence to your assertion that he is habitually injured.
  11. Croak
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    So what about the list of injuries from the Eagles and the games he left due to those injuries? Are they not still injuries?

    It's not just my assertion. Some of those were prior to his signing. A couple were this year. It still stands that he is seen as an injury prone person.
  12. 13 Times Champs
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    So provide the dates for your references. They certainly all seem to be before the free agency period. The guy played 15 out of 16 games. You can't deny that. IMO you are saying he is injury prone because that fits your long standing agenda.
  13. BSchujasNYG
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    Link? Just wondering where you got the stat from.
  14. Croak
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    Sigh....USA Today was from this past month. NBC Sports was also this postseason.

    Eagles injury report; Week 5 - Triceps, Knee missed practice, Week 6- Triceps missed practice, Week 12 Thumb, missed practice, then limited in practice, Week 14 thumb, partial practice, Week 15 Groin, missed practice, then limited in practice, Week 16 groin, limited practice. That figures up to about 6 weeks where his performance was affected by injury. He left 4 or 5 different games (no I don't have the exact count, I live in the Eagles TV purgatory market) with an injury.

    What the heck "agenda" would I have? Am I a Manager or scout trying to bargain down a contract or something? No offense intended, but that's just silly. I'm simply stating a very common perception of Jenkins. I understand you don't agree with that perception. If you're a member of his family, I intend no offense.

    And I'm also stating that the loss of Jenkins is not the sole reason the Packers defense struggled this year. I already mentioned they also lost Barnett, Chillar, and Poppinga; all linebackers.

    Now here's where we can agree; Jenkins probably would have helped the Packers this year. He's a good guy from all reports. He's a good locker room presence. He was liked by the other guys on the team.

    When asked if he would come back to the Packers he said he didn't want to talk about it. So it's a dead end.
  15. NelsonsLongCatch
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    You would have to call it an "attempt" because oppossing offenses didn't seem very confused. Guys like Kyle Orton and Sam Bradford put up serious yardage against this defense.
  16. BSchujasNYG
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    One player is not the sole reason for a defense's collapse, it almost never will be. No one will argue that, but I don't think you are giving Jenkins enough credit. He flat out balled as a 5T last year and a 3T this year, and if anyone would be bias against an Eagles player, it'd be me.

    BJ Raji had a monumental decline this year, I'd go as far as to say that Jenkins departure was a BIGGER part of that than Chillar, Poppinga and Barnett's departures.

    Plus you also leave out another large factor in all of this. You consider Jenkins as "habitually injured".

    Chillar: 134 snaps
    Barnett: 257 snaps
    Poppinga: 105 snaps
    Total Snaps: 496

    Cullen Jenkins: 572 snaps

    And maybe, and that is a big maybe, you can make the argument that Barnett had a better year this year than Jenkins, which I wouldn't agree with, nor try to make the argument, but Chillar didn't even play this and Poppinga was an average at best SAM backer for the Rams. AND neither of those LBers even played in the playoffs for you guys last year. In fact, the latest either of these LBers played for you guys was Chillar and his last start was week 12.
  17. FrankRizzo
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    The Steelers had Harrison and Woodley, and they still, 2 drafts ago, selected both OLBers Jason Worilds and Thaddeus Gibson.
    We drafted none last year (except late flyer on Ricky Elmore). None the year before. Teddy rolled with street guys like Walden and Zombo and relied on Matthews.

    I am positive Teddy has learned his lesson and suspect Capers and Greene and Trgy have made it well-known that they need some talent at OLB. Imagine Matthews going down.... he's made it thru 3 full years pretty much. That's beating the odds. They need more there, as everyone knows.
  18. Croak
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    This is a reasoned post. What I can say in response is that the Eagles must not be giving him enough credit either, because according to the Philadelphia Daily News, it's questionable whether he will be with the Eagles next year. Now if he "flat out balled" for them. Why are the Eagles willing to part with such an exceptional player? Money has been mentioned, but they will save a ton of money by the guys they are already shopping. Jenkins has a 17 mil contract and he's due a 5 mil bonus in March. But 5 Mil is peanuts compared to what they are going to free up when they trade off Samuel and shop Jackson.
  19. BSchujasNYG
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    Well I will say this, I hope they do it. I don't want to face him twice a year on a more gelled defense that can probably now run a wide 9 effectively.

    The only explanation I can really give you is that they don't want to give a 5 million dollar bonus and continue to pay the salary of an older DT who does have his share of injury concerns. If you remember, Jenkins wasn't the "10 minute Free Agent" like I call them, meaning he is signed immediately, and for big money. And I think Jenkins expected to be that too, but for whatever reason it is, my best guess age and durability, owners were weary of him and it took a bit for him to get his deal. I don't know the exact details of his deal, but I do know that all the signings the "Dream Team" made this year, there was a way to get out of all the contracts, or an easy way to relieve cap tension if needed.

    They will free up some 10 million when they cut or trade Asante Samuels, but keep in mind, they need to get McCoy under contract. He isn't even making a million next year.
  20. 13 Times Champs
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    I think you are going to extraordinary measures to defend your position that he is habitually injured. Players have these types of things go on during the season. Matthews was listed on practically every injury report for the Packers this past season. Does that make him habitually injured? I'd rather have facts on my side than perceptions.

    And I do believe you have an agenda. Back in July you said Jenkins would become injured with the Eagles and not complete the season. What you are doing is still trying to fulfill that prediction.

    btw, 5 mil is peanuts now but back in July it was a HUGE # according to you.
  21. 13 Times Champs
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    The article was in the Green Bay Press Gazette. It has now expired so I can't give you a link. The article said Jenkins ranked 7th among defensive tackles in pressures, hurries and sacks.
  22. Croak
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    You're right I just made it all up about writers commenting on his injury problems. I also made up the eagles injury report. He didn't have any injuries or leave any games due to them. I made that all up too. I made up the fact that he's an aging defensive lineman. He's a young kid who steps into phone booths before each game and comes out Superman. Yes, I have an agenda. I get paid millions of dollars to repeat what reporters, scouts and teams say. Right now I'm on the tri-lateral commission and the illuminati. As I write from my yacht, I'm thinking, how can I make another million by quoting other people's perception of a superhuman defensive lineman? You win Sheldon. I'll try to remember this exchange so I don't violate the roommate agreement again.
  23. 13 Times Champs
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    When all else fails result to nonesense.
  24. Croak
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    You better watch it, I'm part of NSA too. I have a big agenda to get you riled up. Then I'll send in a swat team armed to the teeth to seize your computer and declare you a threat to homeland security.

    Here's an idea. Why not start an official Cullen Jenkins forum? Then everyone will have to agree with you or you can ban them and if anyone even hints that Jenkins was less than perfect for the Packers you can ban them too.
  25. 13 Times Champs
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    It gets sillier.:rolleyes:

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