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Are we really equipped to run a dominant 3-4?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Southpaw, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    Just responding with silliness to the silliness that I have an agenda in a trivial football discussion. Besides, it's the off season and some fun and humor can't hurt.
  2. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    The lady doth protest too much. Think I hit a nerve. :roflmao:
  3. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    More like a funny bone.
  4. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    Here, I'll throw you a bone. This is an article by a Philly beat writer a little over a week ago, that supports a little of what I'm saying and supports a little of what you're saying. I highlighted that which supports you're points in burgundy and mine in blue. (This was included in an article mostly on DeSean Jackson, so I clipped it.)

    ~~

    "I was alarmed last week when Roseman wouldn't flatly commit to paying the $7.5 million the Eagles are going to need to give defensive tackle Cullen Jenkins next month to keep him here. Yeah, he's 31 years old and he got five of his 5 1/2 sacks in the first five games. Shouldn't matter. Jenkins became a leader on a defense that lacked that quality as much as anything else when the season began. He started every game, played through injuries, always set the right tone, said the right things, did the right things. He still played effectively, when he wasn't getting sacks.
    Too often, Eagles management lets stats guide decisions. Jenkins, coming off a Super Bowl season with the Packers, played with heart and guts for a struggling team. Whenever possible, you reward people like that, you don't discard them with explanations about how it's smarter to pay for future performance, instead of for the past."

    ~~

    The reason I note when his sack total dropped is because that was immediately after the first injury occurred. But to his credit he did play through them as the writer says. The NYG poster earlier in the thread made a thoughtful point about snap totals.

    I have an opinion, not an agenda. I don't set around plotting how I'm going to dis a football player. An agenda involves planning. I have an opinion and I'm sticking with it. But I accept you have a differing opinion. Really I'm not that meticulous. (I usually post "off the cuff" because this board is a fun escape for me from things I'll not get into.) I don't even see these discussions, for me at least, as win/lose, even though I tease. I just see them as gabbing about football and a chance to think about that stuff. Sometimes I learn things sometimes I get a good laugh. I'm way too old and set in my ways to be juvenile enough to tie my self-worth to what other people think in a cyber forum.

    Otherwise, I'm just parroting things I've read from sports writers. Maybe you're right and their wrong. Maybe not. But a man's entitled to his opinion.
  5. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    That's a more than fair post. We have seen things differently from when I joined this forum regarding Jenkins. I accept that Thompson decided to move on without Jenkins though I think it was the wrong decision. One beat writer says a guy is injury prone and everyone joins in(using your term they are a bunch of parrots). I don't think much of their opinions. By no means was Jenkins the entire reason our defense sucked. It was a combination of things and he was just a piece of the problem. Now who can we get to put pressure on a QB and take care of that issue? ;)
  6. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    You know by the end of the season I completely agreed that we could have sorely used Jenkins. I did mention that in other threads.
  7. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I did notice from your post that Jenkins is due $7.5 million next monh if the Eagles want to keep him. As I suspected things are now money related and not a result of his play in 2011.
  8. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    They are saying that DeSean is going to be franchised. Notice also his comment about "paying for the future.". I thought the Eagles tried that last year. How'd that work for them? But the league does seem to be migrating not toward "what have you done for me lately" but rather to "what will you do for me in the future."
  9. fettpett
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    fettpett Cheesehead

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    from what I've heard he might be cut due to his cap number
  10. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Exactly! If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck......
  11. fettpett
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    fettpett Cheesehead

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    problem with Jenkins has always been his injury history, and I believe that is why TT didn't resign him.
  12. Sirscorps
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    Wynn & Wilson need to step up their game & Neal obviously needs to stay healthy. I think that GB still needs 2 more DE's & another NT/DT since Howard Green is just a guy & Pickett is long in the tooth. It was funny when GB signed Green cause I had never heard of him & he was 30-31 yrs. old. After looking up some info on him, I saw that he had already played for about 6 teams! After watching him last season, I now know why, he's another DT/Donnell "skates" Washington. I would've rather they had re-signed ex-GB DT/James Lee. Speaking of "guys", is DE/Lawrence Guy still on the team?

    Hawk is obviously solid @ best & i'm still not sold on Bishop, he can't cover worth a damn & he's slow, but he's a "thumper." Hopefully GB drafts an OLB within the 1st 2 rounds to play opposite CM3. Zombo is made of glass & the others just aren't cutting it. I liked what I saw from D.J. Smith, hopefully he can become another Sam "Field Mouse" Mills.

    GB needs to find a replacement for Woodson & possibly Collins. Having an off-season should help Shields & hopefully Williams' shoulder is @ 100%. I think that Peprah will have some compitition & I hope to see Patrick Lee & House step up their game as well. It's a shame that Lee's 2 knee injuries robbed him of his once 4.41 speed, I liked him coming out of college. I'm sure that GB will draft a CB & S, along w/drafting a lot of defense in general.

    I think a good number of pieces are in place for GB to have a very good 34 defense but this off-season will be important.
  13. 13 Times Champs
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    Apparently you haven't read this thread.
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  14. fettpett
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    fettpett Cheesehead

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    no, not really, too long :D

    just thought I would point it out since people keep arguing that he was such a great player...this was the first year in a while he's played the full season healthy
  15. 13 Times Champs
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    Except for 2009 of course.
  16. fettpett
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    said in a while, in 7 years, he's had 2 full seasons of being healthy. Not saying they shouldn't have resigned him, just that was the thinking
  17. 13 Times Champs
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    2004 played 16 games, 2005 played 16 games, 2007 played 16 games, 2009 played 16 games.
  18. Croak
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    Croak Cheesehead

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    This is deja vu all over again...
  19. 13 Times Champs
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    It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. ;)
  20. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    Green played very well in the Superbowl run. I think what happened to him, happened to a few on defense. Complacency. I think for whatever reason, some key defensive guys took a less active approach to the offseason. The level of competition in the NFL is amazing. Any slight edge that you loose can appear to be a big deficit in game time.

    As far as Neal, Wynn, and Wilson stepping up: not a lot of DLine men are effective early. The battering your body takes in the trenches is not for boys. Even with amazing strength and athleticism, the constant physical pounding will decrease a players effectiveness. Both Pickett and Jenkins were not very effective in their first 2 years. Raji was, there are exceptions.

    Wynn and Wilson's bodies have matured a bit and now may be ready to start really contributing. It sure would be nice if one of these guys and Neal can emerge this season and be effective.
  21. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO Wynn and Wilson are a little too light for the scheme. Capers' schemes call for DL to be 300+ pounders. Wynn is listed at 285 and Wilson at 295. With the rigors of the season my guess is they weigh less than that in-season. Neal is only listed at 294 but he's incredibly strong. If Wynn and/or Wilson were incredibly athletic, their relative lack of heft wouldn't matter but neither is.
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  22. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    H
    awk had 1.5 sacks, no INTs, no forced fumbles and no fumble recoveries. Do you remember any big impact plays he made – a big stop behind the LOS? A QB pressure at a critical time? In McGinn’s season-ending wrap up, he says Capers tried to hide Hawk in coverage and against the run he was a late reactor who took bad angles and was a step slow in pursuit. He missed 15 tackles. How would you grade him as a blitzer? McGinn gives him a D grade.

    Bishop led the team with 148 tackles. He tied for the team lead in tackles for loss with 6.5. He forced two fumbles. And on a team desperate for a pass rush he was second in sacks with five. He led the team by generating one pressure every 6.85 rushes. And yes, unlike Hawk, thankfully he is a thumper. He loves to hit people - the defense could use a couple more who do. And he put those numbers up while missing three games. But he’s not good in coverage, no question about that. McGinn writes he was pressed into coverage because of Hawks liabilities in coverage. IOW, Hawk is even worse. McGinn gives him a B plus.

    Of the ILBs, how can Bishop be the one you’re not sold on?

    DJ Smith was pretty impressive at ILB but of the ILBs on the roster, I wonder if Francois might be the better replacement for Hawk? Smith is more like Bishop and Francois looked athletic in coverage. Either would have to take a substantial leap but they have their inside blitzer at LB in Bishop. His “partner” needs to be able to cover.
  23. 13 Times Champs
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    You need really good linebackers to play the 3-4. At this point we only have Bishop and Matthews. The other two positions cry for a solution. I guess we would suffer a big salary cap hit if Hawk was cut but can we continue to suffer with him in the lineup?
  24. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I posted this in the Packers Salaries thread: "Hawk’s base salary for 2012 is $4.4M and he will count $ 6.531M against the cap. He signed a 5-year contract which included an $8M signing bonus. (BTW, he was due $10M in 2011 per his rookie deal.) That means if he is waived, $6.4M accelerates to the cap (4 years of $1.6M per year acceleration). However, since his 2012 cap number is higher, the result would be a tiny cap savings in NFL terms. But they would of course save the $4.4M cash."

    I don't expect Thompson to waive Hawk and I don't expect him to ask Hawk to re-do his deal but I sure wish he would do one or the other. If he waived him, it would basically be a cap neutral event but they'd save substantial cash. I heard a rumor there is a team interested in acquiring Hawk but perhaps that's was just another Packers fan hoping for a deal. If by chance it's true, the Packers can do it cap wise and anything they'd get back would be gravy. I would take a late 7th rounder just to get his contract off the books.
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  25. Ed DeCosmo
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