2023 - LaFleur's failings

[BrokenArrow]

Packers have the youngest and cheapest offense in the league and fans out here expecting the coach to make them elite...there is literally no coach in the NFL doing much with an offense comprised of these players.

Honestly, at this stage in the offense's development, I'm pretty happy with them being ranked 19th passing, 21st rushing and 21st overall per game. Four weeks ago, those rankings were 24th, 27th and 26th, respectively.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I've heard this said a lot (which is understandable, cuz it is true and all, so..) but it's got me thinking.

I've seen a lot of people saying things like "We need to be patient with our young WRs because Love is still inexperienced and getting a feel for things and trying to find his rhythm and learning" and so on. Fair enough. And I've also heard a lot of people saying the same from the opposite side: "We need to be patient with Love, his receivers are inexperienced and young and still learning and getting a feel for things," which is also true enough.

But I guess what it has me asking lately is like...how often does that actually WORK for both sides? I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples of an offense with a young QB but established/experienced and/or elite talent at the skill positions that helps the QB develop and ends up being successful.

Like Rodgers and Favre.

And I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples of offenses with established/experience/elite QBs who are given young/inexperienced skill players but the QB is able to elevate them to play at a higher level.

Like Luck's first 3 or 4 seasons.

But both at the same time? How many examples can we come up with where a team takes a young and very inexperienced QB and surrounds them with younger and LESS experienced passcatchers and both parts (QB/receivers) are able to adequately develop and grow at the same time to eventually form a legitimate "contending" offense?

I don't know. Just seems like there are many ready to throw Love under the bus, there are many ready to throw our receivers under the bus, but there are very few willing to stop and say "Perhaps the way this roster is assembled does not do anything to help out Love OR our WRs". Short of adding some experienced/established players and/or elite talent on one side of that "equation" it's hard for me to see that as much of a recipe for success.

I said this exact same thing several weeks ago. A first year QB starter whose receivers, including TEs, are all first and second year players (not counting Deguara, he's a bust)? It's certainly not a recipe for quick success, but I can see some positives. They all have to develop together and it's going to be interesting to watch how it plays out. While it may take more time for the offense to come together, I think the situation allows for a very strong sense of camaraderie (love?) between Love and his receivers. There's no line of demarcation between the often impatient vets who just want to win now and the young guys who need that critical first year and a half to acclimate to the pro game. They're all "in this thing together," so to speak. I think Rodgers knew this was going to be the case and that's why he insisted MLF bring back Tom Clements. I truly think it was because AR wanted to see Love get the best shot possible going forward.

Seems Rodgers actually enjoys the mentor role given the rapport he has going with Zach Wilson, too. BTW, I know some are going to call me crazy, but I really enjoy watching that kid play. Jets fans all seem to hate him, but FFS, he's got absolutely no protection and nobody but Garrett Wilson to throw to. Cobb is clearly done and Lazard is good for a couple catches a game this year and that's about it. They really thought they could let the offensive cupboard run dry and Rodgers would make up for all that and get them to the Super Bowl. I bet there are times Rodgers is glad he's sidelined this year.

 

[Schultz]

I don't think that is the case. Just because you run the ball more, doesn't mean that Love isn't throwing the ball and that you can't evaluate him. All it means is that you are making the job easier for him by forcing the defense to commit to stopping the run.

Thank you for your thoughtful and enlightening reply.

 

[Schultz]

I've heard this said a lot (which is understandable, cuz it is true and all, so..) but it's got me thinking.

I've seen a lot of people saying things like "We need to be patient with our young WRs because Love is still inexperienced and getting a feel for things and trying to find his rhythm and learning" and so on. Fair enough. And I've also heard a lot of people saying the same from the opposite side: "We need to be patient with Love, his receivers are inexperienced and young and still learning and getting a feel for things," which is also true enough.

But I guess what it has me asking lately is like...how often does that actually WORK for both sides? I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples of an offense with a young QB but established/experienced and/or elite talent at the skill positions that helps the QB develop and ends up being successful. And I'm sure we can think of plenty of examples of offenses with established/experience/elite QBs who are given young/inexperienced skill players but the QB is able to elevate them to play at a higher level.

But both at the same time? How many examples can we come up with where a team takes a young and very inexperienced QB and surrounds them with younger and LESS experienced passcatchers and both parts (QB/receivers) are able to adequately develop and grow at the same time to eventually form a legitimate "contending" offense?

I don't know. Just seems like there are many ready to throw Love under the bus, there are many ready to throw our receivers under the bus, but there are very few willing to stop and say "Perhaps the way this roster is assembled does not do anything to help out Love OR our WRs". Short of adding some experienced/established players and/or elite talent on one side of that "equation" it's hard for me to see that as much of a recipe for success.

The one that comes to mind for me is the Bengals. Now I do not profess to know the years in the league of most of their guys, but I believe Burrow, Higgins and Chase have grown up together. They are definitely the exception and not the rule. Plus all 3 of them were very high picks that were very well thought of coming out of college which kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison but while reading your well thought out post they did come to mind.

 

[Schultz]

Like Rodgers and Favre.



Like Luck's first 3 or 4 seasons.



I said this exact same thing several weeks ago. A first year QB starter whose receivers, including TEs, are all first and second year players (not counting Deguara, he's a bust)? It's certainly not a recipe for quick success, but I can see some positives. They all have to develop together and it's going to be interesting to watch how it plays out. While it may take more time for the offense to come together, I think the situation allows for a very strong sense of camaraderie (love?) between Love and his receivers. There's no line of demarcation between the often impatient vets who just want to win now and the young guys who need that critical first year and a half to acclimate to the pro game. They're all "in this thing together," so to speak. I think Rodgers knew this was going to be the case and that's why he insisted MLF bring back Tom Clements. I truly think it was because AR wanted to see Love get the best shot possible going forward.

Seems Rodgers actually enjoys the mentor role given the rapport he has going with Zach Wilson, too. BTW, I know some are going to call me crazy, but I really enjoy watching that kid play. Jets fans all seem to hate him, but FFS, he's got absolutely no protection and nobody but Garrett Wilson to throw to. Cobb is clearly done and Lazard is good for a couple catches a game this year and that's about it. They really thought they could let the offensive cupboard run dry and Rodgers would make up for all that and get them to the Super Bowl. I bet there are times Rodgers is glad he's sidelined this year.

Multiple good points. You made me think, did Rodgers turn Lazard into an NFL WR and now we are seeing he has little to no impact in the passing game?

 

[PikeBadger]

It was the final game of the 2003 season against Denver. And it looked like we would not get in the postseason. Moments after that run Josh McCown launched a desperation last second pass for Arizona to Nate Poole in the corner of the end zone and on the final play of the game knocked the Vikings out of the postseason and gave us the division.

Another great moment in Minnesota Vikings history.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Multiple good points. You made me think, did Rodgers turn Lazard into an NFL WR and now we are seeing he has little to no impact in the passing game?

He's on pace for about the same kind of numbers he had here, at least until Adams left the building.

 

[milani]

I guess that's why I don't remember the run. I was driving somewhere in New Mexico and could only get updates sporadically. I remember that we got into the playoffs because of that game.

Wayne Larivee decided to do the call of that last play by watching the monitor since the stadium was not allowed to update the Viking score so it would not distract our team. Our game was already in the bag. You have to feel for Vikings fans a little. But then they do not feel for us in hard times.

 

[milani]

I haven't looked this up yet, but didn't they call that the U-Bacon package?
....................................scours the internet..................................
It looks like they originally called it the U Bacon package in 2003, and by 2005 they were calling it the U-71 package with Kevin Barry.

More on the U Bacon package: http://monsterden.net/madden/ubacon

I believe Barry was their in 2003. In 2005 it was not called much of anything any longer because are OL was decimated that year and we were down to Samkon Gado in the backfield. Mike Flanagan ended his career 2 games into the season with injury. And Ted Thompson let both Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera go to FA. It was a miracle Favre survived without injury.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can't even imagine Ted Thompson having that type of backroom conversation.

Of course he did. James Jones said in a recent interview that Ted Thompson told JJ that James was too good and it was “holding back his youth”. James couldn’t believe he didn’t get another offer after coming back to GB and playing so well.

I know it does sound a bit crass, but I guess Ted felt comfortable with Jones or something. If he’s going to tell JJ that I’m quite sure Ted would’ve expressed that to his close knit group.

I’ll add that James Jones is a class act, he didn’t come across begrudgingly about Ted saying that even 1%. Initial shock maybe was my impression, but James was such a trusted friend I think Ted just told him the truth in maybe a joking way, but I respect that, it shows immense mutual respect and it’s a huge compliment to Jones imo.

 

[milani]

Of course he did. James Jones said in a recent interview that Ted Thompson told JJ that James was too good and it was “holding back his youth”. James couldn’t believe he didn’t get another offer after coming back to GB and playing so well.

I know it does sound a bit crass, but I guess Ted felt comfortable with Jones or something. If he’s going to tell JJ that I’m quite sure Ted would’ve expressed that to his close knit group.

I’ll add that James Jones is a class act, he didn’t come across begrudgingly about Ted saying that even 1%. Initial shock maybe was my impression, but James was such a trusted friend I think Ted just told him the truth in maybe a joking way, but I respect that, it shows immense mutual respect and it’s a huge compliment to Jones imo.

Jones was good and contributed to making the playoffs when he came back because of the Jordy Nelson injury. But it did appear that he had lost a step since his first run here. This was about the time Adams was starting to improve.

 

[El Guapo]

It was all about the hoodie

 

[OldSchool101]

It was all about the hoodie

Yes. He made it look fashionable. Then they outlawed it

 

[milani]

Yes. He made it look fashionable. Then they outlawed it

And sure enough we talked about playing against the lesser QBs and what happens? Burrows is now down for the count. Horrific year for the NFL with franchise QBs. Which was worse? Getting to see your QB of the future play through a bad season or having a potential HOFer go down and destroy any chance you had that season?

 

[El Guapo]

Seeing your HOFer go down is worse, because you likely felt like there was a SB chance.

We all knew this would not be a SB year for the Packers and Jordan Love.

 

[rmontro]

Honestly, at this stage in the offense's development, I'm pretty happy with them being ranked 19th passing, 21st rushing and 21st overall per game. Four weeks ago, those rankings were 24th, 27th and 26th, respectively.

If we're supposed to give Love his opportunity to learn and improve this season (and I believe we should), we have to give MLF the same consideration. Not because he is a new coach, but because he is taking a young and inexperienced team and trying to mold it into something. Let's see what he can build it into.

 

[tynimiller]

If we're supposed to give Love his opportunity to learn and improve this season (and I believe we should), we have to give MLF the same consideration. Not because he is a new coach, but because he is taking a young and inexperienced team and trying to mold it into something. Let's see what he can build it into.

Absolutely!

There were teams that had one single WR with nearly more snaps in 2022 than our two "experienced" guys had for their careers (Watson/Doubs).

I don't think folks even understand how inexperienced this team is offensively in skill positions.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If we're supposed to give Love his opportunity to learn and improve this season (and I believe we should), we have to give MLF the same consideration. Not because he is a new coach, but because he is taking a young and inexperienced team and trying to mold it into something. Let's see what he can build it into.

I think you nailed it here.