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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tromadz, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    thats all well and good, and yes Eli and Burress were on fire that night.

    but giving credit to the other team doesn't make you a better football team for the next day. you have got to critically look at yourself and figure out how to stop the other team regardless of how well they play.

    giving the other team credit is fine, but it doesnt make you a better football player. and giving credit to the other team never won a Super Bowl. Neither did stupid mistakes in critical moments.
     
  2. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    [align=center]Just for you Fuzzy![/align]

    [align=center][​IMG][/align]
     
  3. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    If I may add to this, without being labeled a "Know-nothing Madden-Player", I just want to throw my vote in that Favre did indeed make a bad decision.

    What bewilders me is why he forced this throw. I understand "Brett being Brett" on home run-type throws, but this was a poor decision and poor execution on a 15-yd out pattern? I honestly don't know, was this a hot-read? That's about the only way I can see him jamming it in there on this play.

    Otherwise it seems like a roll of the dice with essentially only a first down to gain. High risk, low reward, right? Seems like bad odds, even for an experienced gambler..

    I feel like I'm missing what the upside of the completion would be. Someone point it out if I am.
     
  4. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    The upside IF he completes the pass is we score a TD, Donald Driver is a hero and we go to the SuperBowl.

    But he didn't, so he's not, and we're not.
     
  5. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    I know you're being optimistic here, but for the sake of addressing the reasoning, there is a safety coming over the top, and I've never known 15-yd out patterns to be high-probability for going an extra 50-60 yards for a score.

    That's what I mean. If DD looks like he's only got his guy to beat and the ball's poorly thrown, ok, I get it.

    But it's just a normal play, with no extra-special potential for a big play. So why force it?
     
  6. PackFanWithTwins

    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    I still think this was just a poorly placed and thrown ball. The CB is playing inside. If the ball is just thrown outside it is either a 15-20 yd gain or incomplete.

    I have a harder time trying to figure why on 2 and 8 they run two WR 15 yards and plus release the TE on a 15 yard pattern.
     
  7. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I think that completion would have been looked as a big play allowing us to gain some momentum. We had absolutely no momentum up until that point, the Giants basically forced themselves to win in overtime more so than the Packers making stops against the Giants.
     
  8. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    But in OT, you don't need momentum. You need first downs, and then a set-up for a short range FG. I just don't get the lack of patience on a route that has nearly zero immediate gratification.
     
  9. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    The 15 yard out is practically the Donald Driver Signature route. Everytime he catches the 15 yard out, he fakes up the sideline, cuts back up inside and the safety is almost always overpursuing to the outside. The safety would be the only person to beat.

    But, yes, I am being optimistic. Lets say he doesn't beat the safety and only makes the completion. It puts us 15 yards further down the field than we were. Lets say we don't even get the next first down, we get to punt the ball away, and rather than the Giants getting to begin their drive on our 34, already in FG range, they get to try to drive all the way down the field, being that we're punting from around the 50.

    So, "What's the upside of a completion?" What's the downside of the completion?
     
  10. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    There is obviously no downside to a completion, but the up/downside of the risky throw is what I was talking about.

    The downside of the throw is what we as Packer faithful are dealing with right now. Missing the SB, losing a heartbreaker in OT, etc.


    Upside is, yeah, 15 yards. But the CB was in great position for a pick-6 there. That's a high-risk throw. Normally Brett only throws one that's high-risk if he's desperate. Like on 3rd or 4th down, or when it looks like the WR has a great opportunity to score. This one, I didn't think the upside was really there.
     
  11. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    I think we've established that it was a bad throw. I don't know anyone other than Troy Aikman who would say it was a good throw ("the wind just knocked it down"). It was a good decision, just the wrong shoulder to throw on.

    Had the throw been 24 inches to the right, Favre would be a hero right now and no one would be bitching.
     
  12. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    First of all your right. Grant was wide open the entire play. Favre just had to be the hero and try and throw the impossible pass that never ever looked like a good option or even a remotely open option.

    but you wrote it wrong longtime. you said "Fuzzy, your wrong with this."
    thats redundant. the correct packerforum english would be just "Fuzzy" because Fuzzy means: wrong, or the act of being consistently and relentlessly wrong. so you should just say Fuzzy youre fuzzy.


    Favre screwed up. thats all we wanna hear. he leads every QB ever in the "screw up" column. He is still the greatest QB ever to play ever. But he screws up occasionally its ok to admit it. He screwed up on the last play, which eventually cost us the game. Theoretically the TEAM shouldnt have been in that place to begin with. But regardless the team was in that situation and Favre screwed up.

    Blind Homerism isnt gonna win us a Super Bowl i know that.[/quote]

    OK,

    Where is the screw up on this play? the decision to pass to Driver? The pass itself to driver? He didn't pass to Grant?

    ONCE Favre's decision was made, he couldn't see Grant, Jennings or anyone else. Driver WAS the 1st receiver read on the play. Brett thought he could get it to him and once the arm went back, it didn't(doesn't) matter how open the other receivers were(are). The ball is coming out to Driver!

    If the ball's trajectory is off, its the pass itself that was bad. The trajectory wasn't too bad.

    Let's GIVE credit where credit is due. The Giants defender made a Hell of a play. Why blame and point a finger at Favre or anyone else?
     
  13. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I'm sorry for jumping into this (not as sorry as I'm going to be, I'm sure), but that was not a "hell of a play" by the defender. He is a pro football player, and he did his job. Can you honestly say to me that the moment that Brett released the ball, you didn't think, "oh, no". I saw that ball getting picked off, because it was a bad pass. I give the whole Giants team and coaching staff credit for winning that game, but not on that play. that play was just one professional doing his job, and another professional who, on that particular play, did not.
     
  14. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    I DID say "oh NO!" But it was just as I saw the defender step in front of Driver.

    Since he did make the play, it was a hell of a play he made. He COULD have dropped the ball, batted it away, played the receiver instead of the ball, etc.

    Are you saying that if he would have done any of those things that he is NOT and NFL player?
     
  15. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    no. but if he did not make the interception, i would say that he did not make the play that he should have made. just as i say that on that very same play that brett favre did not make the play that he should have made.
    Batting the ball down is fine, and sometimes drops happen, but when you, as a defender, have a bead on a ball that is thrown to you rather than the WR, you should catch it. The defender did not jump the route. he did not step between the WR and the ball. The ball was thrown behind Driver, and the defender, also being behind Driver was in perfect position to do exactly what he did. that's a pro. If it was a high school kid, i wouldn't expect that play to be made, but with a pro, my expectations are higher. just as my expectations of our All-universe QB are such that i do not expect him to miss so bad on that throw.

    Please don't start badgering me about being anti-Favre. I am not talking about the game as a whole, or really even about Brett Favre. What I'm saying is that the defender did not make a hell of a play, but rather, did what a pro is expected to do in that situation.
     
  16. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    I personally don't care a whole lot about Favre's return... Though I am a BIG fan of his, I am even bigger Packers fan.

    MY point is that it doesn't make a difference who's fault was the loss, instead, do the Packers have an answer to this question?

    What is the right answer to the problem? That is important. NOT the blame.
     
  17. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    All I'm sayin, eap, is that it was both a bad decision and bad execution. Just venting a little frustration after the fact, since I've been too surly til now to have any real rational thought on it. I just kinda wanted to add my two cents, although it's probably got very little relevance at this point. But heck, it's early offseason, what else are we gonna talk about for 8 months?
     
  18. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    OK, but that was not what I was addressing AT ALL. I did not assign fault for the loss, other than to say it was on the whole team. All I said was that the interception was not a hell of play, because he had a bead on the ball which was thrown right to him.
     
  19. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    The Bikini Girls. :beer: :thumbsup: :D
     
  20. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    Indeed! The throw was the the back shoulder. If it wasn't picked off, the DB would be looking for a new job.
     
  21. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    At least someone's head here is in the right place. :)
     
  22. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Fuzznuts = 0
    Trom Cruise = 1
     
  23. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Yeah right, on Madden maybe Timmons. Is that the extent of your football experience?

    First of all, Grant didn't have his head turned around and this isn't electric football where Favre can hit him on the back of his head with a football, and they could stop the game to put the ball in Grant's arm.

    Secondly, it was a windy night. The ball blew off the tee two times....but I guess the wind couldn't have pushed the ball down on an out pattern, right?

    Hey, if you want to have a "bash Favre party", then go ahead, but it doesn't excuse the fact that the Packers as a team sucked all night, and that includes the defense, the o-line, RB's, and WR's and coaches....

    At least have the decency to be honest about it will you?
     
  24. eap33

    eap33 Cheesehead

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    Personally, I don't think it was a bad decision, just a terrible throw and a good defensive play. Either way... it is definitely frustrating.
     
  25. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    you can say the whole team was bad all you want to... and they DID NOT play their best game.

    If you rate your team by blowing people out then yes.. the whole team played terrible. If your whole team plays terrible you usually dont take it to overtime.

    but the damn bottom line is... they took the game to overtime. The TEAM played well enough to take it to overtime. where the horrible decision/pass happened.
     

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