1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Will Defense improve enough?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Croak, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,229
    Ratings:
    +1,385
    I see there are a number of threads on individual positions in the defense. But I would like you guys to give me your opinions on the overall state of the new defense. I know this may be premature before camp opens.

    But I got to thinking about SF and how strong they look on both sides of the ball. Will our defense be improved enough to match theirs?

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  2. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,094
    Ratings:
    +1,429
    Well, considering we have nowhere to go but up, I'd say we have a pretty good shot at improving! :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  3. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,571
    Ratings:
    +650
    I don't see our defense matching SF's. That would be a pretty tall order. But I think we will be much better than last year. We basically have no where to go but up.
     
  4. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,248
    Ratings:
    +3,291
    Yes, its premature – the reason for optimism is the infusion of talent from the draft, UFDAs, and three free agents and the hope that returning vets play better. IMO at this point all we have is a realistic hope for improvement.
    In the 2011 regular season, the Packers averaged 35 points/game and surrendered an average of 22.4. The 9ers averaged 23.8 ppg and surrendered 14.3. The Packers point differential was 12.6 while the 9er’s was 9.5, so while the Packers have to improve their defense, 9ers fans should be asking themselves will their offense improve enough for them to get to the Super Bowl. IOW the Packers defense doesn’t have to match the 9ers’ defense, it “just” has to improve significantly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +965
    San Francisco was strong defensively, but was hardly an offensive juggernaut. They dumbed down their playbook and mostly took the ball out of Smith's hands, relying on a strong run game to help reduce turnovers. In terms of overall offense, they were one of the worst teams in the league in total offense last season, ranking 11th in scoring, 29th in passing and 8th in rushing. Defensively they were 16th against the pass, but were 1st against the run. This plays into our strengths more than it exploits our weakness.

    As for our defense, while we finished last in yards allowed, we finished the year 19th in points allowed, in large part due to leading the league in interceptions. As far as being "Improved enough," I believe we will be. When you're last in yards allowed, there's really nowhere to go but up, so I expect to see a bit of improvement.
     
  6. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +965
    I'm not sure how to define "Significant improvement", but looking at the difference in terms of total defense, the 16th ranked Chargers allowed an average of 65 fewer yards per game than we did. I honestly don't know if that's considered significant or not, but my thinking is any improvement in reducing the yards allowed will help us tremendously, especially if our offense can repeat 80% of what it did on the field last season.
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,287
    Ratings:
    +4,132
    Woodson will continue to slide. The safety position will improve. Tramon will step up but not to his 2010 dominance. Perry will show promise but not dominance. D line will improve surprisingly.
     
  8. JoshuaRHuffman

    JoshuaRHuffman Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    414
    Ratings:
    +60
    Depends on Tramon Williams' shoulder. The pass rush should definitely improve though.
     
  9. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    "Nowhere to go but up" Unless we set another NFL record for poor defense. Our defense can slide MUCH more. I can't even say that there wasn't a worse defense last year, we just got exploited because we were usually ahead. Chalk it up to a bad year, stats can be deceiving.
     
  10. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,571
    Ratings:
    +650
    Sorry to pick on you, because you're far from the only person saying it, but I just don't buy this argument. "Teams passed more because they were behind." So? The Packers knew they were going to throw, so they should have been ready for it. Our defense just didn't get the job done.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    What gives you the idea that SF was strong on both sides of the ball? They were only 26th in offense and 29th in passing offense.

    As for the original question, I think our defense will be greatly improved. The main issue last year was lack of pass rush. I have never seen a team acquire more pass rushers in the offseason that we did this year. If only 2 or 3 of them can contribute, our entire defense will benefit. There's a good reason why Vegas currently favors us to win the Super Bowl.
     
  12. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,094
    Ratings:
    +1,429
    OK, serious now. Yes I think we made the right off season improvements and acquisitions to improve and be competitive but I don't think we will be able to match SF. Injuries are going to be our biggest problem. I would be concerned over the pass rush the most, that is what devastated us last year. Our run D last year was good but you also have to consider the run game itself is underutilized. Somebody mentioned in an above post that stats are deceiving and that is very much true. Things often reflect harsher on paper than they do in actuality. But, even if you throw the stats out, we have to improve on D if we are going to make a deep run into the playoffs or hope for a shot at the SB. We have the offense to do it, but I strongly believe you will not win a SB without a defense.
     
  13. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    Giants didn't have a very good defense last year.
     
  14. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    The exact same thing happened with the Saints and Patriots last year. Teams were forced to pass pass pass against them too. It's not a coincidence. Just because you know something is coming doesn't mean you're going to stop it all game long. Pass plays tend to be big plays. If the other team hits on 2 or 3 of those (which is much easier when the defense is playing to the sidelines to keep the other team from running out of bounds to stop the clock), suddenly your defense looks a lot worse than it is. If you have a mind for statistical analysis, have a read:

    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/epx.html#more
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    There were several defenses worse than ours last year. That is, unless you think yards is all that matters. The worst defense by far was Tampa Bay.
     
  16. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    You have to consider how much of those yards were trash time yards though. We were top 15 in yards allowed per quarter for the first 3 quarters (top 10 in the 2nd quarter). In the 4th quarter we were around 30th. The Saints and Patriots had a similar pattern. Quite simply, all three teams gave up a ton of 4th quarter yards in the middle of the field because the priority is to keep the clock running by protecting the sidelines. If that results in some meaningless yards and a score or two when you're already up by 20, then so be it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    Prior to the final Lions game (in which none of our Pro Bowlers played and only a few of our other starters played more than a quarter or so) we were about 10th in points allowed.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,287
    Ratings:
    +4,132
    I've said it a thousand times but I could care less how many yards we give up when we don't give up a ton of points.

    But the team can improve rushing the passer, we just weren't getting pressure last years. It's amazing we still got all those turnovers when Qbs just sat in the pocket.

    Looking at yards given up and points given up its clear that yards given up doesn't hinder you if you are at the bottom of the league in that. It's being at the bottom of the league for points given up that kills you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +965
    Closer to 14th going in to the game, but your main point true. We sat Pickett, Woodson, Williams and Matthews in that game, which obviously weakened our already anemic defense.
     
  20. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +965
    You raise some very good points, and our team is one of the most opportunistic in the turn over department by far. Unfortunately I don't feel like we can completely count on getting turnovers as a way of bolstering our defense. As you said above, we can definitely improve in the pass rush department, and we're going to need to moving forward.
     
  21. Pat4DaPack

    Pat4DaPack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,295
    Ratings:
    +180
    I actually think that the additions of Perry and Worthy will be amazing to this defense.
     
  22. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,094
    Ratings:
    +1,429
    I disagree. It was certainly good enough to win the SB unless you want to give all the credit to Eli and their offense. I don't think their D was good in during the regular season but by the time they hit the playoffs they were playing some pretty good D. The Giants as a whole just peaked at the right time, much the was we did the year before.
     
  23. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    I think we will improve to a middle of the Pack (no pun intended) defense. If they had been that last year we would have hoisted the trophy again.
     
  24. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    It's pretty much a given in the last 5 years or so that you have to be the lowest seed in the NFC if you want to get to the Super Bowl for some reason.
     
  25. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page