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why change brett?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by dhpackr, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    see kid, by the next post some else feels like I do. Like it or not, its not always roses in packerland. and TT and #4 and the players TT has put on the feild, & their relationship is news.
     
  2. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    To me, that's how I feel. I read this article, and this writter describes how I feel about out GM & HC & how they want #4 to play. it also explains how #4 feels. and I keep writting about the lack of skill players on offense, but people on this forum just do not agree.

    imangine if someone in Holywood re-made the Good, the Bad & the Ugly, and the cast Tom Cruise as "The man with No-name" it just wouldn't work.

    I hope some young player really steps up and does some great things!
     
  3. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Ok, here we go:

    1. This thread was about why Favre has to change. It was addressed, but that wasn't your intention.
    2. We won the only game we have played so far. Are you kidding me? You can't even wait for the first loss before you spout off?
    3. Keep it up with the namecalling, I'm sure the mods LOVE it, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a thread inthe mods section about you.

    Go ahead and just say that you're a Favre-fan first, THEN a Packers fan. It's obvious. Nobody will hold it against you, it's just how you view things.

    Ted Thompson has helped this team bigtime. He has cleared up the money problem that Sherman left the team in. He has made some great draft picks, and apparently solid coaching hirings (Jags only lasted one season before he got a HC job in college).

    It's obvious to intelligent football fans that the Packers are heading in the right direction. Are they there? Nah. Are they getting close? Yeah.

    -Nick Collins
    -AJ Hawk
    -Greg Jennings
    -Daryn Colledge
    -Brady Poppinga
    -Jason Spitz
    -James Jones
    -Brandon Jackson
    -Charles Woodson*
    -Aaron Rouse
    -Will Blackmon
    -Johnny Jolly
    -Justin Harrell
    -Patrick Dendy
    -Aaron Rodgers (Who is outplaying Favre in preseason, and more importantly[till regular season, that's MOST important] training camp.)
    -Dave Rayner
    -Mason Crosby
    -Ryan Pickett*


    Re-signed:
    Aaron Kampman
    Donald Driver

    Has Thompson made mistakes? Um, duh, nobody is perfect. Adrian Klemm, Mark Roman, Cory Rodgers and Marquand Manuel were bad picks. It seems re-signing Bubba Franks was a bad move too.

    The offense does need to be addressed, but as Thompson has shown, and the reality of the situation has shown, it is a slow process (unless you splurge all your money and effort in a short time like the Vikes and Redskins...how'd that work out?)

    Thompson has addressed the defense first and foremost because defense wins championships.

    The offense has been addressed in spots (Jennings, Jones, Brandon Jackson, re-signing Driver, oh...and re-building the offensive line. The previous line(sherman era) was aging and their play was getting worse.

    The offense will be addressed more as time goes on. Till then, Thompson is putting his eggs in Favre's basket. He seems to have faith that Favre can get it done with Jennings,Driver,Jackson,etc.

    Maybe he shouldn't have had that faith and splurged on offense as if the QB was a rookie, and give him rookie help.

    You're right, maybe this is Ted Thompson's fault. Maybe he was dead wrong for thinking a 37 year old Brett Favre could get the job done.


    *FA Pickup
     
  4. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    haha mess with the bull you get the horns
     
  5. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Ted Thompson 12-20
     
  6. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    If that's your best stuff, take your ball, and go home.

    Now.
     
  7. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Why?

    Are you the forum blow-hard?
     
  8. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I think this is very well said. There is not question Brett, being Brett, wants an offense that can function the way he wants it to function but you have to consider what TT was facing when he got here.

    On offense he had Tausher, Clif, DD, Bubba, Green, Favre, Flanny, Henderson, and Walker. He was losing, however his two guards.

    On defense he had Harris and Barnett and Kampman. Thankfully, they picked up Collins in that first draft who helped them a lot that first year. The balance of players are either no longer in the league or backups.

    Where are we hurting the most? Both lines. He went about fixing that. You cannot compete in this league without both lines being top notch.

    Which side of the ball were we sucking the worst at? Defense. He went about fixing that. You do remember the Ahmad Carroll days right? The defensive line EVERYBODY ran thru and the best linebackers at making tackles five yards downfield I ever saw.

    Yeah, but he should not have ignored the wr position. Did he? "05 draft, second round, WR, '06 draft, second round WR, '07 draft, third round, WR.

    Wouldn't it be great if NFL teams with all the things we needed to fix could be fixed in two years? Some teams don't seem to EVER get it fixed.

    I understand where Porky88 is coming from here. Brett is a quarter horse bred to run and has always been good enough to back up being the hero. Just because it's a little different now doesn't mean it's bad.

    Besides, Brett should know this. In '03 the guy brought us back game after game. Some games our "D" was so bad he couldn't overcome it and at the end it was the defense that screwed us out of a title.

    So now he doesn't have to do what he did in '03 for us to win. But I understand why he would prefer it that way.
     
  9. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    A little free agency help on offense, especially at WR wouldn't have hurt either, Warhawk.

    I think Thompson didn't have to be so drastic in his approach (letting Wahle go), and not more agressively pursuing free agent WR's and TE's, even some O-Linemen.

    They didn't all have to be gotten through the draft.
     
  10. calicheesehead

    calicheesehead Cheesehead

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    Preseason games are not game planned. I believe AR would have struggled as well in Brett's shoes as well as plays called. In order to open the pass you have to establish the run. We could not run against the #1's. We were working on pass plays to build chemistry while PIT or PGH( still have no idea why it said that) was working on blitz packages the first couple of series. This does not favor the Offense. Once Arod was in the 2's were in and the run was there which opened it up for the pass. Our #2 OL is almost as good as the our #1 whereas the Steelers #2 DL is not near the level of their #1. All this tells me is that our depth is pretty good.
    I get where RP is going with his, BF needs to roll, philosophy but his skills have not diminished that much. The biggest factor is Arod not taking the time to find his rythym with # 1's which MM has increased this year and has commented on. In order for Favre to have the best chance to succeed this year depends more on our ability to run the ball then to have a Moss type of player. Having Favre throw more conservative, short slants & outs all day will be actually hinder his play in my opinion. If the D is playing to this type of O, they will be playing closer to the line which will snuff the run as well. If we can't run and the threat of a higher risk deep throw isn't there, Favre will be replaced, unfortunately. So....run the damn ball well...and let Favre air it out here and there.
     
  11. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Here's the thing.

    Game 1: Starters(aka, Favre) were getting 12-15 snaps. McCarthy and Favre are concentrating on building chemistry with the WRs. There was no TIME to call run plays. The pass-heavy playcalling was necessary.

    Game 2: Starters are supposedly getting 25-30 plays. This means there is no real rush to call pass,pass,pass,pass. They can mix it up more,etc. So I fully expect to see it being somewhat balanced, but overall more passes than runs.

    It seems obvious to everyone that Favre is struggling, and Favre himself puts it on lack of chemistry, so I expect the coaches to do what they can to fix that problem.

    That's my take on it anyway. I expect Favre(and the starting offense) to look better in preseason(Yes, its still preseason folks) week 2.
     
  12. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    This very true but I rather have him do what he's good at (drafting) then do what he's not good at. Let's face it. He's signed 2 good free agents since becoming the Packers GM. He's missed on the rest. However he has 1 Draft Class that has produced depth and at least two starters, probably 3 after Favre retired.

    Another very good draft that has produced depth and at least 4 starters. This Draft remains up in the air but I've been hearing more positives than negatives so early indications seem ok to me. I wonder just how angry the 50% of the Packer fans that disown Thompson would be if Favre retired before he got here.
     
  13. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I just don't see the wide receiver position being that big of a problem. We've got solid players at the #1 and #2 positions and if you look at the production out of a combination of #3's last year it was not that poor.

    We needed to tweak the depth to make sure we don't drop off if JJ get's hurt which actually we could have done last year if the commish didn't cut off KRob earlier than most thought.

    What hurts our passing game is not WR. There was three things I saw that DID hurt our passing game last year:

    1) We HAD to protect Favre which gave the "D" the upper hand in coverage. The new guys are not as new and this should be fixed now.

    2) We need a running game that keeps the "D" honest and puts us in better shape on third down. It's not easy for the passing game to be successful consistantly faced with third and eight.

    3)The TIGHT END POSITION is the one people should be ragging. What happened last year was pathetic and as valuable as a real burner is to open up the passing game so too is the TE position.

    The offensive line play is huge for us this year and I think they will hold up their end. IF THEY DO I am confident we WILL have a RB out there that can hit the creases.

    Bubba or Lee have to come thru or TT needs to trade one of our kickers and a DL for a REAL tight end and that just could happen as this unfolds.
     
  14. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    What also hurts the passing game is the lack of chemisty, or timing between the WR's and the QB.

    Let's face it, the only guy who's been consistent with Favre in the last several or more years has been Driver.

    Jennings only had a half a year last year, so he's still considered a rookie, in my book. He's still learning. What's after that? We have a bunch of rookies.

    There's alot to be said about consistency and experience at this position.

    That's why a solid vet at #3 and a decent TE would have been way helpful.

    Too bad Keyshawn retired. He may have fit the bill.

    Do you realize that Favre hasn't had the same 2 guy's to throw to in like 5 years?
     
  15. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    :rotflmao: yeah, this post will straghten me right out. I got the horns, what a joke!

    ummmm, hate to break it to ya kiddo, but I'm born and rasied in Milwaukee WI. So I sat through games in November, in County Stadium, in the 70's, 80's, before Favre, and I'll be going to games and watching the Packers long after #4 is gone. If I thought Brett was finished, or lost his game, believe me, I'd be calling for his head. I just do not see it that way

    jags is gone, and drafting Hawk was a no brainer, please. name one of TT great draft picks that has made an huge impact on the Packers. and don't tell me Kampman or DD cause they were already here.
    -Nick Collins-might have a breakout season, will never play SS, can not be QB of defense and call plays, not intellegent enough, but very athletic.
    -AJ Hawk-no brainer BPA
    -Greg Jennings- looked lost last season and has done nothing this year in TC. basically has been invisible in 2007 so far. hopefully this changes
    -Daryn Colledge- a tackle forced to play G b/c TT is trying to cover up the mistake of letting Wahle go!
    -Brady Poppinga-struggled on the SAM LB, cannot cover TE over the middle of the feild, maybe a pass rushing specialist.
    -Jason Spitz-solid lineman
    -James Jones-looks good
    -Brandon Jackson-does not have the burst to hit the hole, maybe a decent #2, and solid pass receiver
    -Charles Woodson*-decent F/A, but I'd rather have J-Walk for the money
    -Aaron Rouse-might start at SS, remains to be seen
    -Will Blackmon-will have a big year , no doubt, solid pick
    -Johnny Jolly-who, what has he done
    -Justin Harrell-why? with weaknesses at SS , and TE, and Olsen, Griffin, nelson there not to mention Bowe.
    -Patrick Dendy :rotflmao: are you kidding
    -Aaron Rodgers (Who is outplaying Favre in preseason, and more importantly[till regular season, that's MOST important] training camp.)get off it. let's put #4 in against a 2nd & third string defense and see who is better. this shows your "SUPPOSED" knowledge of football :rotflmao: comparing a guy playing against a first string blitzing defense, and a guy playing against third stringers. give me a break
    -Dave Rayner
    -Mason Crosby-a kicker. so what?
    -Ryan Pickett*-if this guy is so good why draft Harrel?

    no brainer
    only part of this post that is worth a crap!

    OMG!!!!you have got to be kidding me. is this a silly joke. Look up the offensive stats for 2003 & 2004, then re-think this wonderful tidbit again.hallarious. we had a solid linE, remember, the mighty Packer Backer you "SUPPOSEDLY" are.
    Man that Bull tasted pretty sweet after I slaughtered it! :rotflmao: :beersign:
     
  16. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    what if DD gets hurt, what do you see then?
     
  17. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    [quote="dhpackr
    what if DD gets hurt, what do you see then?[/quote]

    I don't know, maybe it will force Favre to look at some other receivers. Since you sat through the misery of the 70's and 80's, maybe you can recall how the offense opened up when Sterling Sharpe went down for the count.

    You like to rip on TT, but, he sure has built us a respectible defense. And for that I am greatful.
     
  18. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    I don't know, maybe it will force Favre to look at some other receivers. Since you sat through the misery of the 70's and 80's, maybe you can recall how the offense opened up when Sterling Sharpe went down for the count.

    You like to rip on TT, but, he sure has built us a respectible defense. And for that I am greatful.[/quote]

    I hope I am wrong about TT, and his choice of players. I hope GJ becomes a hall of fame WR, and Brandon Jackson has as many 1000 yard seaons as Green.

    But....I fel some of these peices on offense were already here. If you kept some of the offensive players we had, guess what, you may not have to ask your vetran QB to change, and we may have been in the playoffs already.
     
  19. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    You need to take your act on the road because that post was pure comedy.

    Your Packer ignorance really shines in this post. More than usual.

    -A kicker? So what? Well, special teams is important.
    -You dog Greg Jennings? Why, because he hasn't done much..like...Brett?
    -Poppinga struggled EARLY last season, and came on strong LATE(that happens with first year starters a lot, but why would you know that, it's clear you don't know much to begin with).
    -Johnny Jolly, who is he and what has he done? Um, fought himself into the rotation bigtime. You say "Who?" for a lot of these guys, and it shows you don't understand the importance of depth one bit.
    -Mistake of letting Wahle go? He's struggled bigtime since he left. lol. Wow.
    -Brandon Jackson doesn't have burst? Well....that.....that might be the stupidest thing you've said, although it's hard to choose from this buffet of stupid.
    -Nick Collins can never play SS? Um, who cares? He's an FS. Good thing you know about the team...
    -Arod, yeah he did better than Favre in the preseason against backups....oh, AND, the entire friggin training camp against every defense he's been asked to face(including, the ones, genius)

    You're the classic crybaby who wants L.T., Moss, T.O., Tony Gonzalez, Chad Johnson,etc, and anyone less than a pro bowler is a waste.

    We've seen your kind before. But stick around, it ought to be hallarious
     
  20. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    I wouldnt mind having green here either but he got paid too much even the staunchest TT supporter agrees with that. And im telling you, i live in North Carolina i go to just about 6 Panther games a year.... what we have in Green Bay now... is better than Wahle... hes done brother let him go.
    TT did us a favor in losing those two. not as people but as overpaid aging players. Im telling you, Wahle and Green dont get us any closer to a championship than what we have now... wouldnt you rather have the young, budding talent over the aging stagnant. this team can only get better, that team would be the same as usual.

    Mason Crosby is about to beat out the incumbent Kicker, whom just happened to be pretty dang good.

    Johnny Jolly has been the most impressive interior D-lineman in camp yet... thats saying something when you look at our DT depth.

    but whatever... hate away i guess.
     
  21. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I would say you are well off on the list of players. If they are good they are "no brainers" and much of what you described is just plain off.

    Poppinga may have started off last year looking lost and unable to cover but that has changed considerably which you would expect since he had never started a game. He's kicking tail right now Jackson and that includes guarding the TE on coverage. Your description of this is very old news.

    JJ "looked lost"? HMMM. Very contrary to what even BF had to say which is he looked well polished beyond a rookie out there. Yeah he got hurt. High ankle sprain. He also gutted out playing when he should not have. But of course what does courage have to do with anything? The guy was lost, right?

    Pickett? How short of memory do you have? Do you not remember how BAD we were against the run. It was pathetic. This guy has been the most steady and consistant interior lineman we have had on a defense that has completely turned around against the run. Why? Because guys like Pickett soak up offensive linemen so Barnett/Hawk/Poppinga can eat RB's. Unless of course you enjoyed watching everybody running all over us I think Pickett has been supurb for us.

    Justin Harrell why? The real question is how you can name others that have done zip to date and could very well turn out shining Harrell's shoes. You simply don't know so how can you say?

    Laughing about the offensive line? Please. Every NFL inner circle out there is praising that group. Don't hurt yourself here. There is no question this team is way better off today, right now, than they would be if they had kept the Rivera/Wahle/Flanny tandem in place. Nit pick about one guy all you want but this group will be good for years instead of fast heading over the hill.

    Finally, Woodson an AVERAGE FA PICKUP? Oh my God. You stand alone here. He probably produced more than any FA taken last year. If he was average what grade do you give the Vikes pickup of Hutchinson? I mean with their "0" line so stellar and all.

    Everyone here has a right to their opinion but much of your dialogue borders on the absurd. We all know your pissed that TT didn't find a way to keep Walker. Your best just leaving it at that because trying to make these other moves look like poor decisions the way you project it makes you look a lot dumber than I really think you are.
     
  22. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    No b/c the guy has not done anything in practice or otherwise in 2007
    the middle of the feild is still looking wide open so far for opposing offenses. Brady is not a difference maker on the defense right now, so don't act like he is a stud.
    OK, so if this guy has so much talent, why pick a DT with the first pick? esp. when you have needs at Saftey, WR, TE, and DT is so strong?
    you are completly wrong about wahle. you come up with a story of Wahle playing sub-par, or as you told one poster, shut up & leave right now!!
    no kid, the stupidest from the buffet of stupid would be your ignorance in boasting of Brandon Jackson's incredible burst. That is funny and should be featured in Jay Leno's jokes at the start of the tonight show. :rotflmao:
    let me tell you something brainiac. if A-rod, was better than #4, then he would be starting. not Brett Favre
    WRONG, you do not know me , so don't act like you do. No, I don't want to sign a pro-bowler....But when you have a highly -skilled Player, at a skill position, you need to keep these special players on the roster. That way you do not have to ask a 17 year vetran to change his style of play.
     
  23. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    the middle of the feild looked pretty open Sat. let's see what happens over the next few weeks.
    Hello, it is GJ, and we are now in 2007, not 2006.
    OK, then with your superior intellegence, please explain why with two promising DT, why pick another one with so many pressing needs on the team.
    I know the team had other needs than a hurt DT
    I'm saying, GB, could be better in 2007 w/a couple players that have departed, than the cast they have now
    and if you think i'm dumb b/c i wish the packers drafted different players than TT did, more power to you. B/c its a forum where you are supposed to express your thoughts, but i disagree with your thoughts.
     
  24. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    1. I never told anyone to 'shut up'
    2. Here is information that once again makes you look like a fool.

    Wahle has been riddled with injury and sub-par play. So much they re-structured his contract.

    You really should just stop while you're ahe...you really should just stop.
     
  25. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    :rotflmao:

    Mike Wahle tore up his shoulder last year around Oct. he played untill DEC 2006. that article says he had the shoulder repaired in March of 2007.
    then, if you took the time to simply click the link, it describes how wahle has been playing G & T this year to help the line out with other injured players, and he is going to be the starting G.

    http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/
    please stop b/f i laugh so hard i cry
     
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