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why change brett?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by dhpackr, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=647385
    Brett does not seem to happy. Could he retire before the season starts? I don't think out veteran QB is happy with the way the offense is going to be run. I really feel this could be a crazy year in packer land.
    Could #4 retire after the season?
    If the Packers have a really bad year, could TT , MM be fired?
    Imange 2008 packers with no Favre, MM or TT.
     
  2. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Why ask favre to play it safe?

    because....he's an aging gunslinger with a line that isn't as great as he'd has in his prime.

    That was easy!
     
  3. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Why isn't the line as good as it was?
    Sorry, :twocents: you have a player who has gone about his game a certain way for along time, now, you say play like trent dilfer? I just think it has made the QB start to question the coaches philosophy and why he came back.
     
  4. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Ahh I see what you want this thread to be. Good day, sir.
     
  5. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Brett took this team to the the pinnacle. The rise is so fun and the fall of an athlete and leader is tougher for fans and that fall and hurt only happens with special people and very special athletes.

    Brett is a God in Green Bay and with Packer Fans all over the world.

    However... Brett is now the biggest detriment to the Packers. He is the one thing that is holding the whole organization back. He is the saddest part, but the greatest part of the Packers.

    T.T. Knows this... T.T. is building. In the year 2009 you will thank T.T. for bringing another Superbowl to Green Bay.

    The sooner Brett retires the better it will be for the Packers.

    Let's face reality. I know it is hard, because there is nothing I want more in football then to see Brett get another ring and go out on top.

    Fact is.... For every snap this year that Brett takes is is taking a small part of the key that T.T. needs to put the puzzle together.

    Brett is finished. It is hard to take. But it is reality. Look at his numbers over the last two years. This is not a dig on Brett, there are so many great Q'B's and Champions that have taken the same steps before.

    I think Brett is the best of the best. I love him as a player.... But please, Brett. go out with dignity. However he will not.

    When Brett loses the starting job to Arron this year he will sign with another team next year. Oh how I wish that Barry Sanders would sit Brett down and have a heart to hart talk with Brett about going out with class

    If you are not rooting for Rodgers to be the starting Q.B. by the end of the year then you are not a Packer Fan. (As in a fan who wants the team to win) You are a Brett Favre fan. That is not a bad thing, unless you are of course a Packer Fan.

    Bash me.... But it is reality.
     
  6. PackCrazed4

    PackCrazed4 Cheesehead

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    Brett's frustrated, but no way is he going to quit now. He just had a PC today, he seemed in good spirits, frustrated there is little chemistry within the offense, but completely aware of the situation. He said "I want to win, but bottom line is I came back because I still love to play", that doesn't sound like a guy who wants to give up.


    Plus he made a joke he could be around for 5 more years, lol
     
  7. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    RaiderPride is right. In his PC, he alluded to the fact that the WRs weren't where he wanted them to be, IOW it's THEIR faults. The OL still isn't playing well enough to suit him. Never a peep out of him that maybe part of the fault lies with him. I'm tired of it. FAVRE fans will not believe he's slipped even though fans of other teams can see it, and PACKER fans can see it. Lord, I HOPE he was kidding about another 5 yrs.
     
  8. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Brett made good points about the staff he has to work with right now.

    The challenge I have with Brett's comments in the Press Conference are simply this... Brett should look in the mirror. Accept that he is not the youthful talent he was at one time.

    As a veteran aging leader of a team Brett should understand that: "Two wrongs do not make a right, but they make one hell of an excuse."

    R.P.
     
  9. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Brett Favre said,

    I think this says it all.

    What happens if the other team's defense shuts down your very limited offense with very few weapons to score?

    You lose by playing it safe, and not scoring points.

    Where does the fault lie then?
     
  10. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Alright, I have to post to present a alternate view.... I have been a Packer fan before Brett was ever here and will be after he leaves, this is a view of a Packer Fan.

    Time and time again it has been posted not to make too much of one preseason game, let the rookies and young people gel. A couple of preseason games and a little experience with the team around them and things will be okay at RB and SS. Yadda, Yadda.... ya........

    But we now are turning it around after Arod has a good to great showing in a preseason game and Brett struggles to say the Arod will overtake the job. What in the past gives you hope that Arod can sustain this level of play. In the past two years he hasn't shown it, has he?

    In my opinion it is probably nearing Brett's time to hang them up or maybe it is here, but to proclaim that he has nothing left after one preseason showing is absurd. Unless we are wrong and it is really a sign of things to come? And if that is the case, we have a helluva lot bigger problems than our quarterback play.

    Second part...

    Does Brett deflect all blame away from himself, not in my opinion. Did he sound frustrated yesterday, yes he did.

    Look at the performance from Saturday night, Brett was calling it straight... the line struggled with the 3-4 leading to nothing in the running game, they got stoned at the line. Is that Brett's fault? No, but does he own a part of it, yes in calling out of the play after accessing the defense. The recievers got no seperate, I mean really watch those 4 series, blanketed. To me, the first team was flat, like they really didn't have much to play for. Especially up front with the big uglies.

    Ever hear of a wakeup call... Brett was sounding the bell yesterday a little to, I think, pick up the pace with the starters on offense. And maybe ask that they turn it loose a little from a coaching prespective.
     
  11. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Care to explain this pile of crap please. How exactly is #4 holding the Packers back from winning? When the GM lets a star WR, ALL PRO G, and a 1000 yard RB out of GB, and brings in a bunch of nobodies to replace them, sorry, but I point to management, not the QB.
    TT will be nothing but a fart in the winD COME 2009

    :rotflmao: look at his receiving core the last three years, put J-Walk on last years team , the Packers make the playoffs and we aint having this conversation.
    if Rodgers was ready to start over #4, then he would. TT has done nothing to cater to #4 since he came to GB, why would he start now.
     
  12. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    :thumbsup: watch Brett follow TT & MM little plan and have 15 TD's , 3 int and GB goes 4-12. who we gonna blame then?
     
  13. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    I think you just described The 1st Bears game last year. Brett finally said enough and started firing the ball around. Thus the 2 interceptions and The Pack gets shut out 26-0, all you heard about the next day was how Brett threw 2 interceptions when the games was completely out of hand by that time.

    The Pack ended on a high note last year, let's give everyone a little time to gell. Defenses are always ahead of offenses at this stage of the game.

    This is supposed to be the time that A-Rod shows he is capable to take over, he did last week, hopefully he will continue to show it this week, but to say he is going to be able to lead The Packers to more success than Brett is a little ridiculous at this time.
     
  14. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Personally, I think this an argument that nobody wins because everybody is right in their own way. It's a team sport and every area of the team factors into whether they win or lose.

    But what I think Brett (and everybody else) is struggling with is the change in philosophy. Instead of strapping the entire organization into the Brett Favre wagon and riding the QB train to victory and success (like Indianapolis and New England are doing), TT's philosophy is that the QB plays a much smaller role in the success or failure of the team.

    So after experiencing a football philosophy that was pretty much the same way for 15 years (and quite successful during that time), Brett is now experiencing an entire organization structured around a different philosophy where his role is vastly different. And as it hasn't been overly successful here yet, it's understandable for Brett and others to have questions as to which philosophy is best.

    Ultimately, everyone has to make their own decisions on what they feel is best for them and the team. Time will tell which decisions were the correct ones.
     
  15. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I have to say that I agree with those that show disappointment with Brett when he talks like this. When you have been around as long as he has you are going to outlive great teams you have played on and go thru rebuilding cycles.

    Sure, it would be great to have the same experienced talent that got us to the SB years ago. The truth of it is teams that get there usually change within just a year of two of making it to the top let alone this far down the road.

    He has DD who is the best WR he has ever had to work with and he knows JJ is good. The "0" line transition has gone VERY WELL and we are much better off today there than had we found some way to overcome all obstacles and kept the previous crew. They are all on the downside today and we would be in deep do-do had it not been addressed aggressively.

    Now I know we can nit-pick about a player or two here or there but c''mon, the talent team wide is hands down far better than going into '05.
    We even have backup players at several positions that belong in the NFL.

    Making these comments at this point to me is absurd when MM is not concentrating so much on how to beat the Steelers as he is wanting to see certain formations and certain plays and sets.

    I actually find this discussion ironic because if the focus was really on beating the Steelers last Saturday than I believe MM would acually have done more of what Brett is looking for. I think MM would have sent the ball over the top MUCH more if Pittsburgh lined up the way they did Saturday.

    Brett needs to just go out there and play. Let the coaches coach, and, forget about who he was throwing the ball to six or eight years ago. If he's going to go there he should have just hung it up.

    He's got a job to do and he could be doing it better. It's called TEAM LEADER. Recalling how past teams got it done isn't doing much for the guys busting their *** out there for him now.
     
  16. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Makes me wonder how much coversation goes on between Brett, MM, and TT?

    Do they really understand where the other is coming from, or are they talking past each other?

    Sounds like they need to get on the same page, and it goes both ways.
     
  17. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    The problem Warhawk, is that everyone else os constantly comparing Brett to Brett of 8 years ago. He was quicker and maybe had more zip on the ball. He also didn't have the experience and intelligence (football wise) that he has now.

    It is my opinion that Brett at this point in his career brings more value to winning games than A-Rodg does. Simple as that. Arod does not move better than Brett, he does not have a stronger arm, and he certianly does not have the experience. When his abilities can be markedly better than Favre's, then he should play and start making up the experience part. Until then, Favre should stay put.

    While I was impressed with Rodger's effort Saturday night I also have to keep it in check. He was up against the 2nd and 3rd string. How would he have done if he had played the same plays brett did? Would he have completed them? would he have made the same reads? Would he have been as accurate? Would he have thrown interceptions? All valid possibilities.

    I have to believe even A-Rodg would admit that Brett is a far superior football intelect than him at this point in his career. Mentally, Favre is superior mentally in every way, and I think in leadership too. So the question becomes is Favre superior to A-Rodg or is A-Rodge far enough superior to Favre when it comes to physical abilities. I have not seen evidence of it and apparantly neither had the coaching staff.

    Should we bench Woodson in favor of one of the younger guys because he is nearing the end and won't be here in 3-4 years? Of course not.

    Favre, right now, is our best chacne to win.
     
  18. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Trippster,
    I am not saying they should move Brett out. I have gone on record that Brett will be the starter as long as he is here and that is how it should be.

    All I am saying is that to get all frustrated and start talking about the past and how well they all worked together back "then" after three or four series in the first pre-seaon game is unneccessary.

    What I am pointing out is that he is the TEAM LEADER and bringing that crap up will accomplish nothing. He's got guys out there busting their *** for him and he get's behind a mike and says that stuff?

    If they suck against Philly and can't move the ball at all than MAYBE as the leader of the team you talk about what needs to be done.

    All I'm saying is if he wants to "win now" than "think now" cause there aint bringing any of the past back. I see a LOT of QB interviews and most the time they are upbeat and positive about making whatever adjustments are needed.

    Normally, the QB playing to the best of their ability is a good start. Maybe he ought to start with that.
     
  19. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    During the first quarter of the Steelers game, how many WR'S were wide open for #4 to throw to?
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    We get it, Donald Driver and Greg Jennings suck.

    Favre apparently needs Moss, TO, and Chad Johnson and only pro bowl recievers, because nothing says "great QB" like "I can only do this if I have the best possible options in the world."

    That doesn't say much about Favre, if you ask me. Is this really how you feel?

    I feel....it was preseason week 1. Good,bad, ugly....preseason week 1... lol
     
  21. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    After this, no one needs to waste their time replying. The lack of knowledge is evident.
     
  22. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I didn't know Brett needed them "wide open" to complete a pass. My point is that I don't think MM sat over on the sidelines wringing his hands in anticipation just KNOWING he made the right play call against a certain defense.

    I recall him saying "I wanted to see certain players in certain sets" and there's such a huge difference in actual game planning and running plays in pre-season you want to see run.

    It's PRE-SEASON GUYS.

    The week before this Worthlessburger looked like Dan frigging Marino and the Steelers looked like SB contenders.

    Just like I said. It's pre-season.

    I would like to see that they are getting on the same page by the third pre-season game. The one teams point to in getting a handle on where they are at.
     
  23. Cal2GreenBay

    Cal2GreenBay Cheesehead

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    Physical ability is not an indicator of a QB's prowess or ability. Joe Montana actually had a weak arm. MUCH weaker than Bretts..

    So Bretts arm being "stronger" than Aaron doesn't carry much weight.

    His experience and leadership are definitely his advantages right now.

    A QB's forte is his ACCURACY. Something Brett struggles with...
    even this 8 years later..."more experienced" version of Brett.

    It's not that people forget that it's 8 years later for Brett..
    it's that BRETT seems to FORGET it's 8 years later..and tries to do
    things he could get away with as a young player...

    Like:

    -Throw through triple coverage because he had the only arm that could do it(he doesn't have that ability anymore).
    -Scramble past the entire defensive line because they were afraid of the running game and the tight end.(they're not afraid anymore).

    So in summary...the things Brett has over ANY other QB on the roster is his experience and leadership. But the gap is CLOSING and fast....

    That's the reality of it.

    NO one's speaking on one game..to indicate any that any anointing oil of the next QB is necessary.

    But I myself am pointing out that this particular year seems to be the one where it will be abundantly clear that he is not HEAD and SHOULDERS above the other QBs on the roster and isn't the best chance to win by years end.

    As far as the Woodson argument goes...Woodson doesn't gamble as much as Brett does and has been able to prolong his career.

    Woodson is benefitting from AL Harris being on the other side. Woodson is NO LONGER a #1 shutdown covercorner. Should he be replaced for a younger guy yet? NO. But if he were to continue gambling on throws because he could make up for spacing when he was 25...and play beyond his current abilities...then YES..he should be replaced by the younger guys. If Woodson gave up a 3rd of the touchdowns as Favre has interceptions..Woodson wouldn't be on the packers...or ANY NFL team.
     
  24. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Look! Reality says you can not rebuild a team all at once. It has to be one phase at a time. It takes four years at least.

    Can anyone argue that T.T. has not done a great job on the Defence? Phase one Check.

    A young good punter Phase two Check.

    A solid Kicker- Phase three Check.

    Now he has to rebuild the Offence.

    As far as Brett is concernd, I agree that right now he still has a little gas in the tank. Is he better than Rodgers right now? Who knows? Rodgers has not had the snaps. In fact it is sick how many snaps he has had going into his third year after being a first round draft pick, and the second QB taken in his draft year.

    Rodgers was outstanding last week. It was shocking considering how many snaps he has had for experience. Like it or not, Rodgers is the future of this team.

    Go ahead.... Let Brett's pride dictate the team. When he throws 3 int's leave him in there. When he has the team up by 28 points, leave him in there he is having fun and going for the records.

    The faster A-RODGE gets the experience the faster the Packers get to contenders. If you leave Brett in there now with no offensive weapons to work with it does him no good, and more imortantly it does A-RODGE no good. At least if A-RODGE is in there he will have 2 solid years of experience when the re-building process is finished in the year 2009 and the Offence and Defence are both there.

    You can not use the Woodson/Farve analogy. Woodson does not have a first round 24th overall pick sitting on the bench holding a clip board behind him. Brett does.

    Like it or not that is my opinion, and forums are about opinions. This does mean you have the right to call me a drunk or a loser, and I am not bashing Farve.

    R.P.
     
  25. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    I think there's another way to see it, Warhawk.

    I think Favre is sending a message to these young pups that they have to get serious and work harder in order to play as a team. Sometimes the media is a good tool for the leader of the organization to get through to these type of players.

    If you look at what Favre was saying, he really wasn't trashing them. He went out of his way to compliment them first, and then say, "But this is what we need to be working on".

    In my view, that's a good way to send a message sometimes. Many great leaders have done so in the past. You can't really molly-coddle these guys. Lombardi was great at this kind of thing. It works as a motivational tool. If you just said, "Yeah, everybody is great. There's no problems that I can see", then teammates will get slack and lackadaisacal. But if you say, "Here's our problem and we can get it fixed by doing this", people's ears tend to perk up, especially guys that may be on the bubble.

    Football. It's all very psychological.
     
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