What has me excited about this season

[Heyjoe4]

I believe you found an error in their stats. It differs with what the NFL stats say.

It did seem a little weird.

 

[OldSchool101]

In the 1996/2010 postseason together, the Packers Defense had 23 combined Forced Turnovers. That’s 3.29/GM over 7 contests.

Since 2010? Our Defense has a combined 22 Forced turnovers in the postseason.
1.38/GM over 16 contests.

There needs to be better focus on the Defense side in this respect.
We are already a top tier Offense in respect to not giving the ball away. Our Defense and ST units need to be properly focused and challenged to be #1 in takeaways on their side.

In the words of the late Kevin Greene..
“IT IS TIME.., IT IS TIME!”

 

[Heyjoe4]

In the 1996/2010 postseason together, the Packers Defense had 23 combined Forced Turnovers. That’s 3.29/GM over 7 contests.

Since 2010? Our Defense has a combined 22 Forced turnovers in the postseason.
1.38/GM over 16 contests.

There needs to be better focus by Barry in this respect. He’s a good DC, but there is an art to 3.29, it’s not luck.
If we can remain in that top tier Offenses that don’t give away the ball? Our Defense and ST units need to be properly focused and challenged to be #1 in takeaways.

In the words of the late Kevin Greene..
“IT IS TIME.., IT IS TIME!”

Takeaways is an art form. TJ Watt is extremely good at it. But there's a trade off. If going for a takeaway doesn't work and the runner gets away, it can be ugly. The right way to do it is focus on the tackle and seize that opportunity to knock a ball loose. It's not easy to coach or to execute.

 

[Poppa San]

Thanks Poppa, that's a nice reference. I'll be bookmarking it as well. Is it a paid site, like Stathead?

In the sticky area of this forum is a thread with a list of useful sites that many posters here use.
https://www.packerforum.com/threads...that-are-usually-cited-here.55595/post-577928

 

[OldSchool101]

Takeaways is an art form. TJ Watt is extremely good at it. But there's a trade off. If going for a takeaway doesn't work and the runner gets away, it can be ugly. The right way to do it is focus on the tackle and seize that opportunity to knock a ball loose. It's not easy to coach or to execute.

True that, when it comes to any art? Nothings easy. Prioritizing a crucial facet of the game will only improve it.


Combine a Good solid takeaway Defense with the top keep away Offense in the NFL (Packers) and it’s like playing the game with the wind and Sun at your back. My hope is that we simply improve that aspect and get our Net takeaways back into that 2010 range. It takes talent, but also all phases working jointly to achieve a high level. I believe we have that Defensive personnel that can Improve that area over the last decade of mediocre results.

We literally mourned when other teams exploited the Packers ST once they sniffed we had a weakness. Those SF49 blocked punt, blocked FG were very calculated, as were many teams before them. They saw our deficiency on film and absolutely trained and attacked it. Call it difficult to train, but it takes just 1 more takeaway per game to have a profound increase in win %.

 

[Heyjoe4]

In the sticky area of this forum is a thread with a list of useful sites that many posters here use.
https://www.packerforum.com/threads...that-are-usually-cited-here.55595/post-577928

Thanks Poppa. I didn't know this resource was here. Good stuff.

 

[Heyjoe4]

True that, when it comes to any art? Nothings easy. Prioritizing a crucial facet of the game will only improve it.


Combine a Good solid takeaway Defense with the top keep away Offense in the NFL (Packers) and it’s like playing the game with the wind and Sun at your back. My hope is that we simply improve that aspect and get our Net takeaways back into that 2010 range. It takes talent, but also all phases working jointly to achieve a high level. I believe we have that Defensive personnel that can Improve that area over the last decade of mediocre results.

We literally mourned when other teams exploited the Packers ST once they sniffed we had a weakness. Those SF49 blocked punt, blocked FG were very calculated, as were many teams before them. They saw our deficiency on film and absolutely trained and attacked it. Call it difficult to train, but it takes just 1 more takeaway per game to have a profound increase in win %.

Your observation of how even 1 more takeaway can increase the chances of a win are true. Make it two or three TOs and it's very hard for the other team to overcome. I recall in the horrible 2014 NFCCG against the Hags, their comeback started with a fake FG that went for a TD. They exploited the aggressiveness of rusher Brad Jones (I think that's his name). But at that point they were close to the goal line, and down I think 16-0. Everyone on the team should have been looking for a fake. That was primarily a coaching mistake, and a costly one at that.

 

[OldSchool101]

Thanks for the comparison between Walker and Martinez. Wow! I've heard the Packers are thinking about using him on the edge as well. Why not, depending on the down and distance?

Yes. That goes with a concept of getting the best talent on the field simultaneously. While a there’s a few who attempt to dismantle how that worked in mid 2014? Moving CM3 inside while he was still in his prime made us formidable Defense compared to earlier in the season. It firmed up ILB with a well above average performing veteran, but the part those critics ignore is focusing on 1 players stat regression a full season later. The ‘14 midseason move was brilliance. It got Perry and Peppers together on the outside and it was a TEAM move and we saw in that Seattle Championship game what it did. As you mentioned, 0-16 at halftime? That against a very good Offense led by a top 5 QB.
It was an unselfish “team” move by Dom and Clay that I believe CM3 knew would ultimately decrease his individual stats, very unselfish move and for all the negative said about Clay and attempts to dismantle a stellar career, he was a team guy after all. His sacrifice propelled a Coordinated and calculated move called SP (“simultaneous personnel”).
I’ll coin that phrase here!

All that Jargon was offered to bring the conceptual SP bridge to us in 2022. While it’s an obvious wish for all Coaches/GM’s, it only comes to actual fruition with the ideal personnel. We finally have it and it appears Barry is bold enough to try unconventional ways to apply Walker.

One thing about Walker is he’s much faster than Martinez was (4.71vs4.51) and similarly, rarely misses a tackle on a player. The difference being he’s stalking the ball carrier with better burst and impact 1.5 yards earlier. How many times do we witness a player who can’t finish what they started in the backfield?? Quay’s strength is the ultimate mark for those guys who can’t finish. He’s an elite finisher and imposing force when roaming into a backfield. There only a couple of QB leaguewide that will win a foot race with Quay Walker in position.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think that there is a large enough sample size to say that even injury-depleted Packers teams can and have made runs at championships - even winning them. The key is having a GM willing to swap out players mid-season when the replacements are not working. We have quality depth at quite a few positions (RB, OL, DL, ILB, CB, and dare I say QB). No team has quality starters and quality depth in the modern NFL of salary caps and free agency. Gutekunst seems willing to swap out the parts that aren't working, which is what we will need if the injury bug strikes in 2022.

I disagree with the Packers having proven quality depth at the positions you mentioned aside of running back.

I fully understand it's impossible to have an adequate replacement for each starter on the roster but I'm afraid the team overall lacks quality depth compared to other championship contenders.

Yes we have lots of potential over proven production in the Receiving area, but we also nearly all recognize that Rodgers lifts the bar in that area markedly. I think Rodgers will either surpass or come very close to 4,000 yards passing. So who cares if it’s more spread around or 35% goes to 1 player.

I don't consider solely taking a look at passing yards to be a smart approach.

While Rodgers could throw for a similar amount of yards it's possible he could end up with a lower completion percentage, number of touchdowns or an increased number of interceptions.

That would result in the passing game being less successful.

What I like is that the Packers are loaded at literally every position, offense and defense.

The Packers are definitely not loaded at wide receiver and tight end.

I'm not certain how you can blame an interior linebacker for making tackles after 3-4 yards of gain. They're playing more than one gap, making reads to determine if they need to drop into coverage, and often playing sideline to sideline. They aren't playing at the line, but off the line, or they'd be picked up in the line blocking, and swept away from plays. I don't believe that was happening with either Hawk, or Martinez.

And yes, I am impressed by a player who consistently makes the most tackles in games, and has a substantially low whiff rate. Also, remember that tackles missed are often later in games, when their arms are tired, their shoulders ache, and legs are turning to rubber.

Most interior linebackers who make a lot of tackles play a very high number of plays each game on defense.

Personally, I believe Barnett, Hawk, and Martinez all got a bad wrap because people don't always understand their role on the field.

It's true that all inside linebackers make a significant amount of tackles after a gain of three or four yards. But it's fair to expect them to make some impact plays for a loss of yardage as well, something that was all but completely missing with Hawk and Martinez.

WRs and TE are our 2 big areas of question but imo thats on Rodgers to solve or what are we paying him all this money for?

The wide receivers and tight ends will need to get open and catch the ball on their own. There's nothing Rodgers will be able to do about it if they can't.

Thanks Poppa, that's a nice reference. I'll be bookmarking it as well. Is it a paid site, like Stathead?

PFR is actually the free database behind Stathead's search engine.

I believe you found an error in their stats. It differs with what the NFL stats say.

Actually Adams has had two seasons with 997 receiving yards in 2016 and '19. For some reason the NFL website doesn't list his stats from the 2019 season.

 

[El Guapo]

I disagree with the Packers having proven quality depth at the positions you mentioned aside of running back.

I fully understand it's impossible to have an adequate replacement for each starter on the roster but I'm afraid the team overall lacks quality depth compared to other championship contenders.

Which teams have better quality depth?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which teams have better quality depth?

Actually I don't know a whole lot about the backups of other teams. Taking a look at the Packers depth chart I tend to believe other teams have more proven talent behind the starters though.

 

[OldSchool101]

Another aspect of this season, call it preseason in particular, is the status of Jordan Love. I’m more excited to explore his development than any other backup player. The more time that passes, the less the chances he will start as a Packers QB. That means we have an opportunity to recoup some 2020 draft capital.

While Preseason isn’t necessarily the ultimate litmus test of QB greatness, it might be all we have. Other than Jordan finishing a series or two in a game that’s already over or an outside chance of already locking a #1 Seed? We really hope to never see him start a game this entire season (at least in GB)

That’s why this Preseason might be an opportunity to offer some other team a glimpse of his potential. My guess is that we do have substantial “bench” talent when looking at OL, WR, RB etc.. That should offer Jordan a better leg up on his second series of preseason games. He’s only played in 2 partial preseason games, 1 regular Start and 1/2 game finisher thus far. So getting some more continuity in playing time (even if against mostly backups) could help his cause.

 

[Voyageur]

Actually I don't know a whole lot about the backups of other teams. Taking a look at the Packers depth chart I tend to believe other teams have more proven talent behind the starters though.

I'm not certain how good the back ups are on most teams, but the fact that we have a few players returning from season ending injuries in the past, while we had replacements good enough to get us into the playoffs may tip the scales in favor of the Packers.

Now, assuming all of them come back to their previous levels, that would be Bakh, Jenkins, Tonyan, Alexander, and even Z. Smith being available. I'm not saying necessarily from day one, but as the season progresses, this will work to make the team stronger, as they reach deeper into the season. The guys playing ahead of them will have gotten even better, and we should see a solid make up for a lot of positions.

Of course, it's all subjective, because we don't know when each will be back, or even how well they'll perform. It's all a game of wait and see.

Edited Z. Smith out! Thanks RTB.

 

[El Guapo]

Actually I don't know a whole lot about the backups of other teams. Taking a look at the Packers depth chart I tend to believe other teams have more proven talent behind the starters though.

...and that was my point. Few people actually know and understand the position depth on all 32 teams, but you feel believe we have inferior depth compared to other teams without having direct knowledge of it. I don't have that knowledge either.

I think it boils down to you think other teams have better depth. I think virtually all teams have similar depth issues. Neither one of us knows so it's just opinions based on guesses.

Just for amusement, I went to two Rams forums. As the Super Bowl champs, they should have the best depth or be in your list of championship contending teams. While I didn't find a specific thread about depth, in several they discussed positions heading into training camp. They seem to lack depth at RB, OL, DL, edge rushers (don't even have a 2nd starter), and CB. They have elite players at many of those positions, but fans and writers are already worried about who steps up if the injury bug strikes.

The grass just always looks greaner in the neighbors' yard.

 

[realitybytez]

Now, assuming all of them come back to their previous levels, that would be Bakh, Jenkins, Tonyan, Alexander, and even Z. Smith being available.

z plays for the vikings now.

 

[Voyageur]

z plays for the vikings now.

My bad.

 

[PikeBadger]

Everyone has depth issues until proven otherwise. At all position groups on all teams, every year. We'll be fine. The overall talent level is extremely good in Green Bay.

 

[lambeaulambo]

I am excited to see what we have on D. I am also cautious when it comes to the offense. Rookies are rookies - and they will make a lot of mistakes and have growing pains. AR12 has a history of pouting when the machine doesnt function exactly the way he wants it. This is going to be the problem. The big question is if he will hit the open man no matter who it is. My instincts say nope - he will force it to his trust. I hope I am totally delusional but I see it every year. Bakhtiari is a huge question mark. Tonyon will not be ready and 100 pct by seasons beginning. Jenkins is a monstrous loss and I fully expect he will be out for the majority of this year.
I think you will see early on that teams will stack the box and dare the offense to throw the ball, and blitz at will and disguise coverage. I really want to see a young and developed team, but Im about 50/50 on it.

 

[gopkrs]

While Preseason isn’t necessarily the ultimate litmus test of QB greatness, it might be all we have. Other than Jordan finishing a series or two in a game that’s already over or an outside chance of already locking a #1 Seed? We really hope to never see him start a game this entire season (at least in GB)

I think we are going to learn a lot about Jordan Love during the pre-season. Except that I would consider it smart if they did not let him run.

 

[gopkrs]

I am excited to see what we have on D.

I think a whole lot is depending on Q. If he is a superstar; that will make a big difference. I am not too interested in his pass rushing ability though that would obviously be a plus. Just want him to be able to cover and otherwise play downhill when possible and laterally when necessary. I think the lateral part is pretty much a given.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Everyone has depth issues until proven otherwise. At all position groups on all teams, every year. We'll be fine. The overall talent level is extremely good in Green Bay.

Yeah with the cap it's hard enough to field a solid team. The Packers are plenty solid with starters. WR and TE are concerns, but I gotta believe MLF and Rodgers will figure that out.

But it's not reasonable to expect great depth at more than a few position groups for any team. That's what the draft is partially for, after the first three rounds to plug some holes. The Packers have been pretty good at that, especially along the OL and at RB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think we are going to learn a lot about Jordan Love during the pre-season. Except that I would consider it smart if they did not let him run.

Agreed. Running QB = increased risk of injury. Not worth it for a PS game. He needs to show he can manage the team with confidence, move the football, and score. I haven't seen that from him yet. If I were him, I'd be looking at showing his stuff to increase trade value. There's at least a decent chance Rodgers stays for 3 years. They'd have to move Love, and he would want that I'd imagine - a legit chance to start rather than riding the bench. (Although getting $12 million for that over his rookie contract is a pretty sweet deal.)

Again agree 100% - no running in the PS. And that's a bias I have toward running QBs. Few can pull it off without getting hurt. Russell Wilson is one, maybe Josh Allen. Even Pat Mahomes is running less.

 

[rmontro]

I mean you gotta utilize the talents that guy has but I am one of those rare fans who does not think the RB position is over rated. I've said it before I'd rather have the best RB in the league than the best WR.

If our top RBs can both stay healthy, there's good reason to be optimistic IMO. If they both would have been healthy in our last game, we may well have beaten SF.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If our top RBs can both stay healthy, there's good reason to be optimistic IMO. If they both would have been healthy in our last game, we may well have beaten SF.

That's an interesting point by sschind, that he'd prefer the best RB to the best WR. And it makes sense. Great RBs take more time off the clock and tend to wear down the DL. This is very clear in Q4 when then D is gassed. And the run game is needed to set up the RPO. Time of possession can be as crucial as takeaways in winning a game.

And yeah rmontro, that SF game was so close, a healthier backfield may have resulted in a different outcome. Oh well, it didn't. Onward!

 

[OldSchool101]

While Rodgers could throw for a similar amount of yards it's possible he could end up with a lower completion percentage, number of touchdowns or an increased number of interceptions.

That would result in the passing game being less successful.

All that said and I agree with this. My “yards” statement does not imply we should throw out the entire book of statistical information either.
It’s simply an important mark to achieve for a Receiving core that has some ??

In addition though, I would prefer to see his Passer rating Stable or better in his 104.5 career range. That encompasses many of the aspects of success. If we surpass 4,000 passing and he’s over 104% Passer rating we’ll still be enough of a dangerous Offensive force. In that case, Most of our team success will come down to D and ST performance.