Tramon Williams says NFL teams caught up to Dom Capers' scheme

[gbgary]

that and did he really say anything we all weren't saying or thinking? I am sure Williams has some good things to say about Capers, but like a lot of media quotes, some will run with the little that was quoted and say Williams was trying to fully discredit Dom.

and win some respect for having his teammate's back. MM was saying how great it was to have him back and in the locker room.

 

[Croak]

This thread should be named "Fire Capers Redux"...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This thread should be named "Fire Capers Redux"...

Capers will be talked about for a long time in Green Bay. Perhaps it's time to reopen the Fire Capers thread? I mean shouldn't all these little golden nuggets of history stay together? No offense to Poppa, but I still don't understand why the thread was closed, there is still more to write about the story, including how the defense he left behind does this year.

 

[Poppa San]

In the meantime, you can stay with this one or use this one

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

This isn't a fair assessment imo...
When you are a trail blazer, sometimes you come to a dead end. Sometimes there were better options available, in hindsight...
tramons comment comes from the perspective of person who runs on the trails other dudes made. Which isn't a bad thing. It's what we need right now imo, is a heavy dose of what works.....he just threw a negative spin on it, throwing a hof coach under the bus....

This is how I seen capers scheme. In a world where run first became pass first, defenses needed to Consider changing with the times... 1 or two Dlinemen. 3 olbs at times. Minimum 5 dbacks at all times, and usually a couple tweener safetys out there. Swarming... we seen spots of it working very good. But it seemed we couldn't get the right guys to stay healthy. And it all broke down all too often. Sometimes bleeding out, killing a entire season. GB seen it through too. I vested heavily on defensive pieces, and injuries killed us. We all seen it...

Point is. It took a bigger understanding to be able to fabricate a legitimate 2-4-5 defense. He tried, and the organization tried. And like I said from the time we let Cullen Jenkins go, and jolly got his drank on...we needed help on dline. Raji screamed it, and got so frustrated, and worn down. He quit! Lol. That should have been a sign we payed attention to imo.

We seem to have remedied our failure up front. Clark... modog... Daniels gonna feast. Our back ups all have flashes, and potential to become better. Perfect rotational guys to come in fresh and make plays....
Gonna make tramon and the rest of the defense (whole team actually) look much better...

 

[Mondio]

I really don't think he was trying to throw anyone under a bus. Simply giving fans and new team a reason for optimism. A fresh start, reason to believe. It's still 5 months away from any sort of halfway meaningful football. I'd call it more throwing fans desperate for change, a bone to chew on until they can hit the field more than tossing Capers under any sort of bus.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This isn't a fair assessment imo...
When you are a trail blazer, sometimes you come to a dead end. Sometimes there were better options available, in hindsight...
tramons comment comes from the perspective of person who runs on the trails other dudes made. Which isn't a bad thing. It's what we need right now imo, is a heavy dose of what works.....he just threw a negative spin on it, throwing a hof coach under the bus....

This is how I seen capers scheme. In a world where run first became pass first, defenses needed to Consider changing with the times... 1 or two Dlinemen. 3 olbs at times. Minimum 5 dbacks at all times, and usually a couple tweener safetys out there. Swarming... we seen spots of it working very good. But it seemed we couldn't get the right guys to stay healthy. And it all broke down all too often. Sometimes bleeding out, killing a entire season. GB seen it through too. I vested heavily on defensive pieces, and injuries killed us. We all seen it...

Point is. It took a bigger understanding to be able to fabricate a legitimate 2-4-5 defense. He tried, and the organization tried. And like I said from the time we let Cullen Jenkins go, and jolly got his drank on...we needed help on dline. Raji screamed it, and got so frustrated, and worn down. He quit! Lol. That should have been a sign we payed attention to imo.

We seem to have remedied our failure up front. Clark... modog... Daniels gonna feast. Our back ups all have flashes, and potential to become better. Perfect rotational guys to come in fresh and make plays....
Gonna make tramon and the rest of the defense (whole team actually) look much better...

So in all that are you saying "Rehire Dom, with the caveat that he just needs to learn how to coach with the players he has"?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

So in all that are you saying "Rehire Dom, with the caveat that he just needs to learn how to coach with the players he has"?

Hell no. Lol
I would have fired him after he decided he didn't need Cullen Jenkins!

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I really don't think he was trying to throw anyone under a bus. Simply giving fans and new team a reason for optimism. A fresh start, reason to believe. It's still 5 months away from any sort of halfway meaningful football. I'd call it more throwing fans desperate for change, a bone to chew on until they can hit the field more than tossing Capers under any sort of bus.

Agree. The writers surely spun it to make a story... but as the headline reads. Sounds kind of harsh. Capers had his hard times developing his scheme. Injuries finished him off. But I will always respect the creativity, and balls to go out and try the one man front. Lol. Even if it wasn't logical. Someone had to try. Lol

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hell no. Lol
I would have fired him after he decided he didn't need Cullen Jenkins!

LOL. So you aren't throwing him under the bus, but Williams comments were?

I mean I get it, the man has left, did some good things, so for some you just let things be and move forward. But Williams really didn't say anything that others haven't and I also think if you had the chance to sit down with Williams for an hour, I am sure he could tell you a lot of positive things about Dom and he may have to whoever interviewed him. But why would they print that? Controversy sells.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In the meantime, you can stay with this one or use this one

I know, some view multiple mini-series as being better than one big book!

 

[gonzozab]

I said it before and I'll say it again - I wanted Capers gone as much as anyone, but he was not to blame for the Seattle debacle. In fact the first 55 minutes of that game was possibly the best defensive performance in Packers history, and up there in NFL history too.

Capers had nothing to do with the Packers scoring a measly 6 points off FIVE turnovers.

Capers had nothing to do with the fake FG touchdown.

Capers had nothing to do with Burnett sliding after the last interception.

Capers had nothing to do with Bostick.

Capers had nothing to do with Ha Ha's zero inch vertical leap.

I get all that too, but if you watch the game again (which I could never ever stomach again) for that first 55 minutes, for some reason Seattle wasn't running that read option offense that Capers could never figure out even after getting burned by it twice by the Niners. . When they did start running it, the defense had no answer to stopping it.

 

[Mondio]

i would say they got burned by it once. The 2nd time we were a Hyde keeping his hands on the ball away from winning. and most troubles that day were because of available players on defense more than anything. I don't want to relive Seattle anymore

 

[GB2016]

Capers might have been a nice guy and decent coordinator, but time has passed him by. Unfortunately, I think we waited a few too many years to make the change and wasted many of AR best years to a dismal defense. In simple terms, if we had the same roster with the new DC, I think we are better. But now with a a new DC and new roster we will be much better.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I don't think Capers being up in the booth had anything to do with the unit struggling.
.

I think if there's problems with communication it's best to convey what your message is to someones face, rather than through a headset or a messenger (assistant coach or other player). I definitely think it contributed to poor on field performances and communication breakdowns. If it was an effective strategy most teams would have a booth defensive coordinator.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Capers will be talked about for a long time in Green Bay. Perhaps it's time to reopen the Fire Capers thread? I mean shouldn't all these little golden nuggets of history stay together? No offense to Poppa, but I still don't understand why the thread was closed, there is still more to write about the story, including how the defense he left behind does this year.

Uhmmm, the defense this year is going to be FAR different than last year's defense. Wilkerson and Williams are major improvements at the two most important positions on defense (dline and corner). The Packers will have Kevin King (who for some reason seems to have been forgotten in the mad dash to crown Jackson or Alexander the next starter) in his second year at corner as well as another potential option. The past two seasons have seen the Packers trot out some of the worst corner personnel in the NFL on a weekly basis.

I do expect that the defense will make a jump under Pettine simply because the majority of the time change is good for football teams (goes for OC and HC as well). Capers wasn't a great DC but he wasn't the horror that most portray him to be. Pettine has been very good at most of his stops and the simple fact that his defense will be showing new things to opponents and players generally focus more when doing something different will be an improvement on the field.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Uhmmm, the defense this year is going to be FAR different than last year's defense. Wilkerson and Williams are major improvements at the two most important positions on defense (dline and corner). The Packers will have Kevin King (who for some reason seems to have been forgotten in the mad dash to crown Jackson or Alexander the next starter) in his second year at corner as well as another potential option. The past two seasons have seen the Packers trot out some of the worst corner personnel in the NFL on a weekly basis.

I do expect that the defense will make a jump under Pettine simply because the majority of the time change is good for football teams (goes for OC and HC as well). Capers wasn't a great DC but he wasn't the horror that most portray him to be. Pettine has been very good at most of his stops and the simple fact that his defense will be showing new things to opponents and players generally focus more when doing something different will be an improvement on the field.

I share your optimism. However, right now that is all it is until we start seeing the "new defense" under Pettine. While everything with the defense looks better on paper and in discussions, the proof will be had on the field. I doubt there is one team in the NFL that doesn't feel that they are improved, yet at the end of the 2018 season, some will have improved and some will have gone in the other direction.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I share your optimism. However, right now that is all it is until we start seeing the "new defense" under Pettine. While everything with the defense looks better on paper and in discussions, the proof will be had on the field. I doubt there is one team in the NFL that doesn't feel that they are improved, yet at the end of the 2018 season, some will have improved and some will have gone in the other direction.

I agree. I just don't see how the Packers corners could be worse this year than the last two years (fingers crossed). I mean, the Packers corners were on a whole other level of bad, "not NFL quality bad". They weren't just poor NFL quality corners, injuries forced the team to start guys that shouldn't even be on an NFL roster as special teams guys.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree. I just don't see how the Packers corners could be worse this year than the last two years (fingers crossed). I mean, the Packers corners were on a whole other level of bad, "not NFL quality bad". They weren't just poor NFL quality corners, injuries forced the team to start guys that shouldn't even be on an NFL roster as special teams guys.

I will give you the "devil's advocate" side of our CB's

1. King: His shoulder
2. Williams: His age
3. JA and Jackson: Rookie learning curve
4. House and the rest: Talent level
5. Pass Rush

We have all seen how injuries and inconsistency can kill the Packers at any position but it has been really glaring at the CB position. Maybe with a bit of injury luck and solid development, along with a new DC and a new lease on life for Whitt, this will be the season the Packers CB's finally show vast improvement.

 

[gbgary]

Uhmmm, the defense this year is going to be FAR different than last year's defense. Wilkerson and Williams are major improvements at the two most important positions on defense (dline and corner). The Packers will have Kevin King (who for some reason seems to have been forgotten in the mad dash to crown Jackson or Alexander the next starter) in his second year at corner as well as another potential option. The past two seasons have seen the Packers trot out some of the worst corner personnel in the NFL on a weekly basis.

I do expect that the defense will make a jump under Pettine simply because the majority of the time change is good for football teams (goes for OC and HC as well). Capers wasn't a great DC but he wasn't the horror that most portray him to be. Pettine has been very good at most of his stops and the simple fact that his defense will be showing new things to opponents and players generally focus more when doing something different will be an improvement on the field.

i mostly agree except i think you're overstating what a rotational tackle and an old, but intelligent, cb will bring in total. i'm keeping my glass half empty so's not to be too disappointed. lol

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hell no. Lol
I would have fired him after he decided he didn't need Cullen Jenkins!

It wasn't Capers decision not to re-sign Jenkins.

I just don't see how the Packers corners could be worse this year than the last two years (fingers crossed). I mean, the Packers corners were on a whole other level of bad, "not NFL quality bad". They weren't just poor NFL quality corners, injuries forced the team to start guys that shouldn't even be on an NFL roster as special teams guys.

I expect the Packers secondary to be improved as well but the 2015 offseason in which the team spent their first two picks on defensive backs as well should work as a cautionary tale.

 

[Half Empty]

i mostly agree except i think you're overstating what a rotational tackle and an old, but intelligent, cb will bring in total. i'm keeping my glass half empty so's not to be too disappointed. lol

At least somebody gets it.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

i mostly agree except i think you're overstating what a rotational tackle and an old, but intelligent, cb will bring in total. i'm keeping my glass half empty so's not to be too disappointed. lol

While I didn't point it out specifically, I also imagine that the corners on the roster will be healthier than in the past and the team won't be starting guys that shouldn't be on the field.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I expect the Packers secondary to be improved as well but the 2015 offseason in which the team spent their first two picks on defensive backs as well should work as a cautionary tale.

I agree but the 2015 and 2016 seasons saw a rash of injuries at the corner position that one can hope won't be repeated.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree but the 2015 and 2016 seasons saw a rash of injuries at the corner position that one can hope won't be repeated.

I think the Packers have more quality depth at cornerback than in past years which would make it easier to overcome some injuries at the position. I'm just being cautious before getting too optimistic before I have seen Alexander and Jackson perform at a decent level.