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To All Panicking Fans...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by SpartaChris, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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  2. Jesuswasafullback

    Jesuswasafullback Cheesehead

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    I think everbody needs to shut up Mike will get us to the promise land with rodgers....no doubt
     
  3. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I can't agree with it. I fully understand where he's coming from, but he cannot expect that fans just sit still and wait for the same damn things to happen over and over and over again.

    He has a TERRIFIC point in saying that NEVER a coach won 2 SBs with 2 different teams.

    That doesn't mean that it won't happen, or that MM should stay. But with that in mind, I would be much more open to a star coordinator taking the job. Like Mike Zimmer, LeBeau, Frazier (yes, I know)... Don't exactly know who are the HC candidates in the NFL, like Schwartz and McDaniels were a few years ago...
     
  4. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Would like nothing more than eat crow my friend...
     
  5. Incubes12

    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    I think we have the capability to turn it around, I just wonder when it will be and when it's too late. I'm not saying it's too late now, but we have a rough road ahead of us.

    In the end, if we don't do well, it will be because of injuries. With Grant and Finley in there, I think we could overcome shoddy O-line play. The one point I like the best from this article is how open the NFC is. Really, the majority of the teams in the NFC are still in it, including the Pack. We just have to find ways to overcome these injuries.
     
  6. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

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    yea i dont really agree with it and i think he's almost contradicting himself
     
  7. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    The scope of the message is there's no one way, no magic formula to consistently build a Super Bowl caliber team. Trading for a free agent just because you recognize the name, which is what most fans want us to do, doesn't guarantee success. For that matter, neither does building exclusively through the draft. Nor does using a hybrid of both methods. There just isn't a one size fits all formula for building a team that wins championships.

    Some people want an angry, firey coach who yells and spits from the sidelines. While that style worked for Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy and Bill Belichick proved you don't need that to win a lot of games and a championship. Mike McCarthy comes off as boring in the press and doesn't say much, but so does Bill Belichick, who has 3 rings.

    The bottom line is there is no one way to build a winning team. Ignoring the injuries that decimated this years team, our team, the Green Bay Packers, have arguably one of the best rosters in the league. We're thought of so highly that we were picked by many to win it all this year. Guess what? We did it without making a ton of huge moves in free agency.

    Compare that to the Jets, who went out and brought in a wide assortment of free agents. They're also good, and have an excellent shot at winning it all this year. Two completely different philosophies both yielding essentially the same results.

    One big difference is next year. We'll still have much of our team in place for another shot next year. And the year after. Contrast that with the Jets who IIRC, have LdT and Jason Taylor as one year rentals. Will they still be as good next season? I have no idea. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. One thing I know for sure though is we will be. Barring any major setbacks, we'll still be thought of as contenders for the next several years.
     
  8. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    i liked the article, b/c it put me in a better mood
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    We could very well have been 5-1 right now. We arent getting owned, and its still so early in the season. I agree with the author and always try not to be too high or too low on the team. The sky isnt falling. When we beat the Viking Sunday night I am sure you will have someone start with the superbowl talk. Its all about the small picture with the majority of fans, and not the whole picture.
     
  10. Majik

    Majik Cheesehead

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    I can live with McCarthy. I think there are worse coaches. He didn't fumble the ball that James Jones did against the Skins. He didn't miss the FGs that Crosby did either. You may say that's coaching, but it's pretty simple stuff: don't fumble, don't miss the FG. Don't throw the INT. The rest of it is dealing with the injuries, and moving on from there. When you lose both your starting TE's within 3 snaps, you lose certain packages, as McCarthy pointed out.

    Same goes for the defense in the last game. No pass rush. Why? Because McCarthy can't coach? Nope. No Jolly, Pickett, or Matthews. Only a one-handed, double-teamed Jenkins. Henne had all day to pick apart a depleted secondary with a 3rd string SS, and a 2nd string CB (who got schooled by Marshall). Our best LB on the field last game can't even hardly cover a tight end (Hawk). That's not McCarthy's fault. The guys who were supposed to be there aren't, and now his team is nowhere as good as it was in week 1 before the opening kickoff.

    Now we get the Vikings.
     
  11. Incubes12

    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    Yeah but nobody really said that this was the case. I know that you can't build a quality team by any one single means, it has to be a compilation of them all. I think the main point of argument though, is that people criticize TT for not going after quality FA's if they're available to fit holes in the team. This article does a good job of summarizing why this is a problem. Now, the validity of the claim that TT ONLY works through the draft is up to each fan to realize. Personally, I think he could open up a bit more and maybe take a FA OL if they become available. I mean, how long is it going to take for our line to fall into place if we draft one prospect each year who can fit our scheme while taking another year to develop?
     
  12. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

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    i think just by looking at tony's or bill's face after a bad loss, you can tell they tear their asses apart in the locker room, so im not sure if those are too great of examples.. and i wouldnt say the jets and the pack are yeilding the same results, jets are 5-1 and the best team in the afc while we are 3-3 losing two straight and on the decline.. once again not the best example.. although i do agree with you that we have an excellent roster and should be great for years to come, but i want championships, not the title of being good year after year, you feel me?
     
  13. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe there are some legitimate expectations from fans. We can expect that the team in which we invest will put a quality product on the field. We pay for that product through ticket prices, concessions, souvenirs, tours, etc. When we pay $200 for a leather coat advertising the team, we expect a quality product in return. Therefore fans have a right to take an interest in the "product" and the apparent lack of action toward improving that product.


    It is interesting that the article takes a "we'll stay the course" attitude. Is it wrong to expect the product on the field to improve rather than "stay the course"? We get disturbed when a number of parts of that product are broken and not replaced. This doesn't mean we have to go out and get big name free agents, but it does mean we can expect Thompson to do what is reasonable to replace all the injuries. Even if there weren't injuries, we should expect the team to progress. When it doesn't someone should be made accountable. Vince Lombardi never settled for just being good. He insisted on excellence. This management seems to be happy with being good. We want excellence. That's all I have to say about that. (maybe)
    :preach:
     
  14. packerfan4ever

    packerfan4ever Cheesehead

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    i think the article was good i think m.m is a good coach for some reason the o-line isnt clicking d-line thought they did okay yea there were some bad plays but if the o-line would have stpped up it would have been a win look at last nights game panthers d-line was bad they lost their q.b he may not play this week concussion,young out bad knee they have collins,teams are getting banged up and when key players are gone the others have to step up to the plate,and i think a-rod has to get used to bjack crabtree and qurless think they will be good this week just need to ajust to each other.:viksux:
     
  15. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    How do you know Mike McCarthy doesn't get in the players faces in the locker room? I've read numerous stories where players claim he takes them to task pretty hard. In fact, I remember hearing about McCarthy turning the air blue after practice during preseason. He may not visibly berate the players, but I hear the opposite is true behind closed doors.

    And if you read my post, you'd notice I said ignoring injuries. I was comparing two different philosophies to further prove my point that there is no one way that's better than the other when it comes to building a Super Bowl caliber team. BEFORE we were injured, we had a VERY GOOD team, easily comparable to the Jets who built much of their team through free agency.

    Unfortunately we'll never know just how good this years team could have been *this* year.
     
  16. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Well, lets say we gave up that 3rd for Lynch. What do you have to give up to replace Nick Barnett? Jermichael Finley? Morgan Burnett? Pretty soon you either start giving up your higher round picks or you start running out of picks to give up to replace injured players.

    It's not wrong at all to expect the team to improve, but when it comes to reasonably replacing injured players, there's a huge difference between the way the fans want to do it and what makes the most long and short term sense for the team. One thing you don't want to do in a time of crisis is panic and over-react. In that respect, I feel Ted is one of the best in the business. He has a plan and he sticks to it, only making small deviations when necessary. Fans will overreact and demand all of these knee-jerk trade scenarios to replace injured players. For example, look at all the trade demands fans wanted us to give up for Marshawn Lynch or DeAngelo Williams. Most of those weren't reasonable- They were absurd.
     
  17. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I generally support Thompson. However, in the wake of all these season ending injuries, I am surprised at the apparent inactivity from Management. Perhaps he thinks his coach can work wonders with college level tools. I, however, am not so confident.

    If the theory is to strive for excellence. And one can only attain excellence by improvement. Then we must question whether this management really has excellence as its top priority. I've seen no improvement after the rash of injuries. Not even a little. So, yes, I am scratching my head.
     
  18. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

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    ohh i dont know, he may very well do so it just doesnt seem so.. the players might just be saying that to defend their coach since he gets alot of **** for it, but who knows

    ohh definately, prior to injuries ( i might be biased here) i thought we had the best all around squad in the league.. i said with no doubt in my mind we could easily beat any team in the league, but sadly our season has came down to this :(

    we can only play the what if game now and it saddens me
     
  19. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    So who, besides a running back, are we supposed to trade for to replace all of our injured guys that would A) be better than anyone else on our roster who already knows our system and playbook, and B) would be able to make an immediate impact? Please, give me names of players that were/are available that we should have gone after to replace Morgan Burnett, Nick Barnett and Jermichael Finley.

    We lost Morgan Burnett for the season. Two weeks later we signed Anthony Smith and we're getting Atari Bigby back. We lost Nick Barnett for the season. Desmond Bishop has stepped up quite nicely for him. We lost Jermichael Finley for the season. I'm not sure there's another TE on anyone else's roster we could trade for who would match his production. Most everyone else is either returning to practice tomorrow after being on PUP or have temporary injuries and will be back shortly. Are we supposed to trade people to replace those guys who are injured for two, three weeks?

    There's an old adage in stock market trading that says sometimes the best trade you take is the one you don't make. I think the same could be said for trying to replace an injury depleted roster.
     
  20. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    At TE we are stocked. But a play for L.J. Smith of the Ravens wouldn't have been too expensive.
    In the Secondary - Frank Walker is another possibility we could have dealt with the Ravens on the cheap or Keiwan Ratliff of the Bengals. At Safety Michael Lewis of the 49ers or Antoine Harris of the Falcons, but he may have cost a lower upper level pick, maybe round 4. LB - Abdul Hodge, Chase Blackburn, Bobby Carpenter, and Rashad Jeanty would be a real good inexpensive pickup.

    The great thing about picking up defensive players is that it doesn't take long to fit right in. Most guys can adapt much more quickly to a defense than an offense.

    Early on when we saw we were having injuries on the OL we could have gone for Zach Streif at the ticket price of $1.7 million. But it quickly became too late to think of adding to the offensive line.

    These are just a few guys that I know about as a fan without a full staff of scouts, etc. Imagine what might be out there with a professional scouting report.Ted Thompson is paid the big bucks to know a whole lot more about available free agents than I am. Yet there are a number of available serviceable guys, who are better than our practice squad, I just listed.
     
  21. dansz15

    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    This is how I see it: Packers are putting up a fight with every team and I agree with you 100%. They aren't being blown out, 2 losses in OT and the Bears game was so close. The injuries they have right now are so awful players are being thrown all over the place in an attempt to even field a defense some weeks. Long and short is that if GB can make it to Harris coming back, Smith plays well, and they can get even an OK running game going, this is still a dangerous team. I also think the development of Quarless is key to watch, he can become a poor man's Finley in due time which believe it or not would help them out alot. Tough season but the division is all still close and it is only week 6. A win this weekend could swing things in Packer favor, so let's hope the team performs in the spotlight.

    Good chance Packers beat Miami last week if Matthews is in the game which is promising, believe it or not.
     
  22. YouFrgotPoland

    YouFrgotPoland Cheesehead

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    This.
     

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