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Thompsons 2012 draft was better than people say

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I think some Packers fans are failing to see how good we really are.
    Sure, there have been some playoff disappointments in the last few years.
    But at least you weren't rooting for the 9ers or the Broncos only to watch those dreams get crushed in the SB.
    We are a top contending team in the NFL and at least we make the playoffs and are not at the bottom as say the Browns are year after year. Or the Dolphins or the Raiders etc etc.
    Making it and winning the SB is a lot harder than I think a lot of fans realize because the really good teams make it look easy. It's a long tough road and at least the Pack runs it with the best of them.
    There are all sorts of reasons why a team loses. And throwing blame around or looking for a scapegoat is not the thing to do.
    Ted is doing his best. And I dunno about the lot of you but I'm grateful to be rooting for a team that hired him.
     
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  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    What I noticed last year was this:

    When Rodgers is playing, our drafts look better.
    Our talent looks better.

    When Rodgers is out hurt, our drafts look worse.
    Our talent looks awful.

    Ted drafted Rodgers.
     
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  5. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    you look to closely at our performance without Rodgers. That was an indication of our back up not being with our team thru training camp an not the overall talent level of this team. I don't care how much talent you have, if your QB is bad, you will have a. Tough time winning.

    I still say we are one of the most talented teams in the NFL. It is tough to make this team. we will be cutting players who are better than starters on the cowboy defense.
     
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  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree not having a great QB makes it really tough to win in this league but it doesn´t explain the shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball (like allowed 561 yards vs. the Lions on Thanksgiving).

    There´s no doubt in my mind that we are one of the most talented teams in the league as long as Rodgers is our QB.
     
  7. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Wait...What? Are you actually suggesting, that continually getting embarrassed in the first round of the playoffs is somehow better than being good enough to get to the Super Bowl? I am seriously confused and perplexed by this statement. Although if it is truly how you feel it does make me understand why so many posters on this board seem to be satisfied with the status quo of not being good enough to get back to the Super Bowl...
     
  8. Sanguine camper

    Sanguine camper Cheesehead

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    The talent level on the defense has been mediocre and that's being generous. Other than Matthews there have been way too many high draft pick busts on the defense. Even players that are still on the team are either too fragile or have mediocre production. Unless ha ha Datone Jones and Hayward crank it up big time, the talent level on defense will just lead to another one and done. I'm keeping my fingers crossed those 3 guys can be difference makers. I think the rest of the guys on defense have shown their abililities. We know that Matthews, Shields, and Daniels will kick *** if healthy. The Pack just needs help from the 3 guys above and the defense can improve it's talent level. If not, Rodgers can carry to team to the playoffs but not all the way.
     
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  9. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    name one poster on this board who is happy with not being good enough to win the Superbowl.

    Yet I can name a few who have such a myopic unrealistic view who believe that every time you don't win the Superbowl it represents an afailure requiring changes. You are on that list.
     
  10. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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  11. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Lol? How did I get on the list, because I dared suggest that people like yourself seem to believe that the Packers can do no wrong? I for one, know we cannot win the Superbowl every year and do not even expect it. However, there are reasons why this team, which by all rights should have appeared in another Superbowl by now, has not been to another Superbowl yet. The #1 reason is Ted's inability to draft and develop defensive players up to this point.

    His defensive drafting has been highly suspect for his entire tenure with the packers. He is great at finding offensive players but below average at finding the same type of defensive gems as he does on the offensive side of the ball.

    Is this the year it all comes together? Perhaps, but who really knows? Just to reiterate, our pathetic, soft, weak, no passion and complete lack of fire defense is the only reason why we have not gotten back to the Superbowl since our last miracle run, and make not mistake about it, after the past 3 years of wasted opportunity, 2010 was definitely a miracle run which I am more than happy to have seen, but it does not mean that a great team was built to win the Superbowl. It means that a good team was built to get hot at the exact right time and win Superbowl.

    I want to see a great team built while we still have our 2nd straight future hall of fame QB at the helm.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When Brett was the q/b----I and other people were happy to be in the playoffs and not get to the SB (after the SB appearances in the 90's)

    Then I woke up and realized he wasnt going to get it done anymore..

    So I agree 100% with your statement, but this isnt like it was in the 90's with Niners, the Cowboys going all the time..It is hard to get back
     
  13. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    if you want to see what an incompetent drafter looks like, observe the Cowboys. IMHO we will cut defensive players who can start for the Cowboys. If TT is so bad at defensive drafting, how do you explain Matthews, Daniels, Heyward, Raji, and Hyde? Hell, Jones is a 7th rounder LB who is starting. You know how many 7th founders start? Very few.

    And if you want to look at Datone, Perry and Worthy - all of whom have battled injuries as proof of incompetence, then, so be it. Seems very disingenuous to me.
     
  14. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    And even more mysterious to me is how the defense started the season doing well and then fell apart. And then re-appeared against the 49ers in the playoffs despite missing Matthews, Shields, and Neal. Yes, they lost that game but the effort they put forward in the game was nothing to be ashamed of.

    As to the 2012 draft at the time I thought it was a good thing for Thompson to get out of his comfort zone and trade up for players. I thought quality was more important then quantity. But that draft turned out to be an example that Thompson's normal MO of trading down for quantity is just as likely - or moreso - to find quality players because at the end of the day, even with all the money and man hours thrown into analyzing draftees, the draft is a crap shoot.
     
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  15. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I'm reminding us that it's better to be a Packers fan even though they have lost recent playoff games and yet who won their last SB than to be a fan of a recent SB team who went back after a long drought only to lose it.

    It could be better but it could be a lot worse too.
     
  16. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

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    It is better to lose in the first or second round of the playoffs than it is to lose the Super Bowl. This is because if you lose the Super Bowl, that's it. No team since Tom Landry's Cowboys in 78 have won the SUper Bowl with the same coach and quarterback tandem after losing it (Landry lost it in 76, but won it in 78). Don Shula's Dolphins lost it in 72 than won it all with a perfect season in 73.
    I believe that our talent is only mediocre at inside and outside lineback, and now our defensive line is suspect wiht the passing of Ryan Picket and Johnny Jolly. Are safeties were not just mediocre but really horrible. That however has been addressed.
     
  17. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    The 2012 draft wasn't that good, and trying to sugar coat it won't help. Mike Daniels and Casey Heyward are the 2 success stories. Nick Perry has not lived up to his expectations. That's not to say he won't, but he has basically one more season to do so.

    Conventional wisdom has it that a draft class needs to produce 3-4 players who are solid contributors. The 2012 draft class has produced 2 and 1/2. The 2011 draft is even worse, although if Sherrod's return proves to be a success, then a Cobb-Sherrod-House result isn't so bad.
     
  18. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

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    I don't think anyone can sugarcoat the 2012 draft. There are mitigating circumstances, which include:

    -the 2012 was pretty bad overall
    -higher number of free agent rookie signings that pan out
    -the 2013 draft. Just looked at it again and Ted has certainly redeemed himself that year. A big factor will be if Datone Jones pans out. I am beginning to press the panic button on that though.
     
  19. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Why in the world would you bring up Raji as a positive for Thompson's defensive drafting acumen? Raji has been one of the more disappointing top-10 draft picks in recent memory.
     
  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I think people overlook the impact that the weather may have had in that playoff game against the 49ers. I'm certainly not trying to say it was a huge factor but it's also probably not accurate to say that the 49ers weren't affected by the cold (if I recall correctly, wasn't that by far the coldest game that Kap had ever played in?).
     
  21. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Matthews is a great pick
    Daniels - lets see more than one year before we crown him a good pick
    Heyward - after injury, lets see more than one year before we crown him a good pick
    Raji? - Whether it is scheme, dom, or raji himself, he has not been that great except for the first year or two.
    Hyde - Again, lets see more than one year before he is crowned a good pick
    Jones - please, he is a horrible linebacker and should not be starting so to answer your question, not many because they are not good enough, just like jones is not good enough.

    Okay so with that said, there is a reason why I said is this the year it all comes together. If all those players play up to their past performance then they will be looking like good, possibly great picks but you simply cannot say that.

    Look, I am not all doom and gloom, I appreciate everything Ted has done, but if we want to get back to the Superbowl, he has to get some better, consistent defensive talent on the field. There are a lot of big "ifs" going into this season that could make him look like a freaking genius once again but we won't know for a year. Here are the if:

    if Daniels can continue to improve
    if Heyward can bounce back to his rookie form
    if Raji can bounce back to his first two years form
    if Hyde can step in an continue to improve
    if Jones and Hawk can get the job done on the inside
    if Burnett can play better than last year
    if Neal, can continue to improve
    if jones can contribute
    if Perry can contribute
    if Matthews can stay healthy
    if Peppers can still play at a high level

    do you see what I am getting at? Everything on defense as of right now is nothing but ifs, I would take Matthews off that list I guess because we know if he is healthy, he is a beast.

    There are very few known quantities on the defense going into this season, compared to having Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb, lacy, starks

    who are pretty much guaranteed to contribute greatly barring injury.

    Anyway I am just rambling now. so that is all for now.
     
  22. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I overlook it for two reasons. First:
    http://www.unr.edu/nevada-today/news/2013/kap-anything-but-cold

    And second because IMO the injuries to the Packers, particularly on D - and not just those who didn't suit or have to leave the game - had a much, much greater effect the the cold. And they were still a dropped INT away from winning that game.
     
  23. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Diptheria? Double Penetration? Dead Protestants???
     
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  24. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    I don't see this as Ted drafting poorly but more Ted always drafting at the back of the class. The really good big guys go early, where we pick in many drafts, the Big Guys still available could be considered the top of the second round. Most of the issues with the Big guys we have drafted is injuries not a lack of talent. I see lots of talent on the D but you have to have them healthy and on the field to develop into great players. Last year the D was so decimated by injuries that you had a limping Linebacker having to chase Kaperpunk. How is that a result of TT drafting poorly? Also look at how many UDFA's we have successfully developed.
     
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  25. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Raji was critical in winning the Superbowl. No Raji no Superbowl. That makes it a great pick.
     
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