Thing to remember about WRs

[PackinMSP]

I totally am disappointed we weren't more aggressive but...

WRs, unless they are an OBJ type talent aka the Top 6 WRs taken (before we could pick), typically dont contribute right away

My guess is that when Gute could not pick one of those guys he decided to not go for one..
L

Tee Higgins, the 7th WR left is good, but how much better than Lazard? Who already knows the offense...?

All that said, why not get Queen or other ILBers? Or a legit replacement for Bulaga? Doesn't make sense to me either...

I totally get the late round Interior OL picks, we always do this and it works generally

 

[PackinMSP]

Patrick Queen would have been PERFECT though

 

[Mondio]

I totally am disappointed we weren't more aggressive but...

WRs, unless they are an OBJ type talent aka the Top 4 WRs taken (before we could pick), typically dont contribute right away

My guess is that when Gute could not pick one of those guys he decided to not go for one..
L

Tee Higgins, the 5th WR left is good, but how much better than Lazard? Who already knows the offense...?

All that said, why not get Queen or other ILBers? Or a legit replacement for Bulaga? Doesn't make sense to me either...

I totally get the late round Interior OL picks, we always do this and it works generally

It's easier said than done. are queen and the other ILB's really the guy we need or just slightly better versions of what is widely available. Myself? I wasn't overly impressed with the top ILB's, i've been wrong before. A bulaga replacement? I had Jones in the 1st Lots of people did. Look how long he lasted on real GM draft boards, nowhere close to a 1st round pick. Was he a Bulaga replacement. We all have our wants and perceived needs. But that doesn't always line up with whats in front of you. and even when it does, you still just don't know until the pads go on and a couple years of development happen.

Sure a good WR helps, but every year many, i'd say even most, of the guys we talk about go on to do not much. But since we didn't get one, we'll all talk about our hypotheticals where everything is great had they just done what we wanted

 

[PackAttack12]

I’m disappointed with not taking a WR but I’m more disappointed that you invested a 1st and a 4th on a player you don’t want to see take the field for bare minimum the next 2-3 years.

Gute is placing a lot of faith into what we currently have. Could it work out? We already have Davante, Lazard proved to be serviceable, but how high is his ceiling? Funchess is proven, but missed the entire season last year. EQ is a prospect I’m high on, but missed the entire season last year. MVS has a ton of improvement to make before he can be relied upon.

So if Lazard gets better, if Funchess comes back strong, if EQ is ready to play a big role after not seeing the field in MLF’s first year, if MVS makes all kinds of improvement, then yeah we might be okay. But I don’t want to have to rely upon that.

 

[PackinMSP]

True that Quesn can bust

And we could always draft another Sherrod bust in the 1st

But I think the thing on Queen is his skill set and strengths play to our defensive problems

Hes fast and can cover and can hit

We really haven't had a fast or good cover ILB in a long time

 

[PackinMSP]

I’m disappointed with not taking a WR but I’m more disappointed that you invested a 1st and a 4th on a player you don’t want to see take the field for bare minimum the next 2-3 years.

Gute is placing a lot of faith into what we currently have. Could it work out? We already have Davante, Lazard proved to be serviceable, but how high is his ceiling? Funchess is proven, but missed the entire season last year. EQ is a prospect I’m high on, but missed the entire season last year. MVS has a ton of improvement to make before he can be relied upon.

So if Lazard gets better, if Funchess comes back strong, if EQ is ready to play a big role after not seeing the field in MLF’s first year, if MVS makes all kinds of improvement, then yeah we might be okay. But I don’t want to have to rely upon that.

I think the point is that. Who, AFTER the first 4 WRs taken, do you see as contributing significantly right away?

I dont really see it

For instance, do you see Tee Higgins being a LOT better than Lazard or Funchess or ESB? Production wise at least...

I don't.

Maybe a "little" at his ceiling. But I don't expect Higgins to be like a 1000 yard rookie WR.

The top 4 guys? Definitely maybe . I would not be surprised if those 4 had Julio Jones/AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/OBJ/etc like rookie years

But I think Gute realized he couldn't get any of those guys

That said, hindsight it 20/20, could he have traded the 3rd instead to move higher up and get one of those 4 guys? We will never know

 

[PackAttack12]

I think the point is that. Who, AFTER the first 4 WRs taken, do you see as contributing significantly right away?

I dont really see it

For instance, do you see Tee Higgins being a LOT better than Lazard or Funchess or ESB? Production wise at least...

I don't.

Maybe a "little" at his ceiling. But I don't expect Higgins to be like a 1000 yard rookie WR.

The top 4 guys? Definitely maybe . I would not be surprised if those 4 had Julio Jones/AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/OBJ/etc like rookie years

But I think Gute realized he couldn't get any of those guys

That said, hindsight it 20/20, could he have traded the 3rd instead to move higher up and get one of those 4 guys? We will never know

Did you miss the part where I mentioned the 1st and 4th we gave up for Love? I’m not critiquing receivers not taken in the back half. I’m criticizing what happened (or in this case didn’t happen) on days 1 and 2.

 

[Mondio]

I’m disappointed with not taking a WR but I’m more disappointed that you invested a 1st and a 4th on a player you don’t want to see take the field for bare minimum the next 2-3 years.

Gute is placing a lot of faith into what we currently have. Could it work out? We already have Davante, Lazard proved to be serviceable, but how high is his ceiling? Funchess is proven, but missed the entire season last year. EQ is a prospect I’m high on, but missed the entire season last year. MVS has a ton of improvement to make before he can be relied upon.

So if Lazard gets better, if Funchess comes back strong, if EQ is ready to play a big role after not seeing the field in MLF’s first year, if MVS makes all kinds of improvement, then yeah we might be okay. But I don’t want to have to rely upon that.

i know, but even with a draft pick, we're still relying on them getting a lot better than they were in college to make an impact in the NFL.

 

[PackAttack12]

i know, but even with a draft pick, we're still relying on them getting a lot better than they were in college to make an impact in the NFL.

You can say that about all draft picks. Some positions more than other, granted. It’s never stopped teams from using the draft to fill needs. Especially in the first couple of rounds. There are first year receivers making an impact nowadays.

The cupboard has gotten bare on Gute’s watch at receiver. If it works out, I’ll give him credit. But I don’t think he’s done enough.

 

[Mondio]

You can say that about all draft picks. Some positions more than other, granted. It’s never stopped teams from using the draft to fill needs. Especially in the first couple of rounds. There are first year receivers making an impact nowadays.

The cupboard has gotten bare on Gute’s watch at receiver. If it works out, I’ll give him credit. But I don’t think he’s done enough.

I do say it about all draft picks

Trust me, I feel your pain on the WR front. I figured there was no way in hell we were going to be out of round 2 and not have our new shiny receiver to be excited about.

But Gute has proven in a short while, he's fairly good at finding players. He's also shown he's likely not done trying to improve this team. We may not have gotten the positions we wanted, but I have faith he's found us some good players and good players always help.

And I know he's not done. We have trades, and cuts still coming up. He's shown he's working all year long, I don't have doubt that he will continue to try and improve this team.

 

[PackinMSP]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned the 1st and 4th we gave up for Love? I’m not critiquing receivers not taken in the back half. I’m criticizing what happened (or in this case didn’t happen) on days 1 and 2.

Actually I didnt..

That's why I mentioned it may have taken a 3rd (and the 1st still) to move up more...?

I was implying why not just go all in and he more aggressive..

 

[Fredrik87]

WR4 was still on the board though and this is deepest draft class for WR's since 2014 this is also one of the worst for TE's.

 

[DMANDTM]

Optimistically, I have hope that Funchess and Reggie Begelton are going provide a much bigger impact than most rookies could. I wouldn't be surprised to see them become the 2 & 3. I wouldn't mind if they picked up the speedy Taylor Gabriel to round out the WR's, now that the draft is over though.

 

[Pkrjones]

If Gute seriously wanted a top WR he still could've traded our 5th & a 6th to move up 4 or 5 places in the 2nd round to go get Denzel Mims. Don't buy it that he "didn't see value" after the 1st 6 WR's went off the board in the 1st.

GB is quickly morphing to a run first offense and made their point by NOT taking a WR for AR to utilize. I'm pretty sure we'll see AR checking-out of plays at the line greatly diminish, also. This is MLF's team, now, and AR needs to fall in line and run the play that was called for the next 2 years. After that he can be traded to a place where he can run his show if that team allows.

 

[AKCheese]

Those are some good points about WRs rarely stepping in big as rookies. Lets face it we won’t know about Love for 3 years. The rest of the draft class? Puzzling at the top as much for what we didn’t take as for what we did. At the same time “these guys” do it for a living. We can’t just applaud when they do what “we” would do after reading some blogs. If they think the big back and unknown TE fit what they want to do, and the WRs on the roster are better than we think, I’m ready to sit back and watch. I am puzzled as to how they intend to address the ILB/DL weakness. I still think the uncertainty of a 2020 season might have an impact on strategy here.

 

[Jerellh528]

I kinda disagree with this. Recently in the nfl we’ve been seemingly having more and more rookie wrs come in and make an impact. Just last year, DK metcalf, AJ Brown, scary terry, Deebo, Hollywood brown, hunter renfrow, Darius slayton, dionte Johnson, and mecole hardman all came in and were pretty darn productive for their squads. We could’ve majorly used any one of those guys on our team last year

 

[PackinMSP]

I kinda disagree with this. Recently in the nfl we’ve been seemingly having more and more rookie wrs come in and make an impact. Just last year, DK metcalf, AJ Brown, scary terry, Deebo, Hollywood brown, hunter renfrow, Darius slayton, dionte Johnson, and mecole hardman all came in and were pretty darn productive for their squads. We could’ve majorly used any one of those guys on our team last year

Regarding this...

Brown, Metcalf, Deebo, McLauren i'll give you, but that's the equivalent to the Top 4 this year?

Slayton, Dionte, and Hunter played for bad teams and there were a lot of "garbage time stats".. Still productive but inflated a little for sure... But even then, although they had good numbers, were they really sniffing a 1000yd rookie season? Not saying they had bad numbers again...

So I think the point though is... Do you think if we had drafted a WR there he would be SIGNIFICANTLY better than Lazard/Funchess/Begelton/ESB to be worth the draft capital???

 

[Jerellh528]

Regarding this...

Brown, Metcalf, Deebo, McLauren i'll give you, but that's the equivalent to the Top 4 this year?

Slayton, Dionte, and Hunter played for bad teams and there were a lot of "garbage time stats".. Still productive but inflated a little for sure... But even then, although they had good numbers, were they really sniffing a 1000yd rookie season? Not saying they had bad numbers again...

So I think the point though is... Do you think if we had drafted a WR there he would be SIGNIFICANTLY better than Lazard/Funchess/Begelton/ESB to be worth the draft capital???

Yes I do, if not only for this season, for future seasons. Love is going to need people to throw to in a few years also. Funchess is only on a one year deal, Lazard showed flashes but still unproven, Begelton played in the minor leagues, esb is a question mark.

 

[PackinMSP]

Yes I do, if not only for this season, for future seasons. Love is going to need people to throw to in a few years also. Funchess is only on a one year deal, Lazard showed flashes but still unproven, Begelton played in the minor leagues, esb is a question mark.

Well i don't blame you...

None of us will know for sure you know?

We will just have to see

 

[elcid]

I kinda disagree with this. Recently in the nfl we’ve been seemingly having more and more rookie wrs come in and make an impact. Just last year, DK metcalf, AJ Brown, scary terry, Deebo, Hollywood brown, hunter renfrow, Darius slayton, dionte Johnson, and mecole hardman all came in and were pretty darn productive for their squads. We could’ve majorly used any one of those guys on our team last year

Thank you for stating this. This 'time to develop' argument is so washed. I wouldn't be surprised if the top 10 rookie receivers will all have better seasons than any receiver on our team not named Davante

 

[PackinMSP]

Thank you for stating this. This 'time to develop' argument is so washed. I wouldn't be surprised if the top 10 rookie receivers will all have better seasons than any receiver on our team not named Davante

I'm not ENTIRELY disagreeing here but the argument is for the guys AFTER the top 6...

Would they really be that much better than Lazard or Funchess?? THIS year I mean.

I think if you're evaluating talent/potential...than I 110% agree with you, we DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE gotten any WR at that spot

But let's look at Production:

Lazard "played" in 16 games, but he really only saw time at WR in 11:

So in 11 games:
35/477/3

16 game projection:
51/694/4


So essentially about Renfrow or Deonte...

Do i think those guys may have more talent/higher ceiling than Lazard? Probably...but we will have to see

I think the FO is just seeing that as a way to measure Production

The TOP 4/5 WRs, where we were no longer in position to draft, would ABSOUTELY have been more productive IMHO

 

[PackinMSP]

***CORRECTION****

We would have been in line to take the 7th WR off the board at pick #26

Apologies i had read the order wrong


Renfrow was the 7th most productive ROOKIE WR last year