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The realism, and the optimism going forward..

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Brandon, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. Brandon

    Brandon Cheesehead

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    The realism:

    We've been pretty terrible the past several weeks on both sides of the ball, but especially on defense. Once a titan at home, we've fallen to both the Bears and the Lions, teams we should beat uncontested at home. We go into the Lions house and play absolutely miserably for most of the game, albeit a somewhat better defensive performance. We catch a break with a questionable face-mask call that no doubt looked much worse in real time than it did instant replay. Don't kid yourself, that hand was clearly in the shoulder of A-Rod, not grabbing and twisting the mask.

    The Lions defense played about as poorly against the hail mary as you can. It honestly shocked me that Megatron was not back there for a jump ball, and NO one seemed to know that Richard was in the area. AMAZING throw and perfect catch, but run this play 9 times out of 10 and we probably aren't as lucky most times.

    The optimism:

    Most of that sounds pessimistic but it isn't, it's reality. The truth is though that regardless of the circumstance it was a much needed outcome, one that I am very hopeful will generate a spark to carry some late season momentum into the playoffs. I still think we win the division in the final week showdown with the Vikings, but we need to ride this momentum and get healthy starting against a Dallas team that I think we SHOULD win convincingly.
     
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  2. 4Ever4Favre

    4Ever4Favre Cheesehead

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    While a great win, that game only emphasized the fact that our offense is broken and nowhere near being fixed. A hail marry does not fix slow receivers and poor OL play. It does not fix poor coaching and play calling.

    We have a pretty good schedule left compared to MN. They could easily go 0-2 the next two games and we take the division lead back. I think it will still come down to the last game at home. Maybe they fix it. Maybe TM coming back will help. Maybe Rodgers gets killed. Lots of maybes.
     
  3. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Especially on defense? Giving up 23 points to the Lions at Detroit, despite our offensive problems, is not a bad night's work. I'd also point out that Aaron's interception handed the Lions possession within our own 20 yard line. I'd also point out that it was the Defense that got us back into the game with Julius Pepper's sack fumble inside the 10.
     
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  4. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    The Packers have already proved to us that one game (Vikings) does not fix your problems. So we can only hope that the coaches and players learned from that and are happy with a win, but not satisfied in their efforts. Despite all the Capers criticism early in the year, I really think the defense is playing well and can help carry this team. There was no giving up when they easily could have. Now its time for the offense to build on the successes of last night and clean up the mistakes as well. If our O-line gets healthy, Montgomery gets back on the field AND the offense cleans up mistakes, we can keep this rolling. But if the team thinks this win has fixed everything, nothing has changed.
     
  5. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The defense allowed 18 and 17 points in home losses to the Lions and Bears, absolutely good enough for the team to win. The reason the Packers lost those games was the offense playing terrible.
     
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  6. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Keep in mind also, when your offense goes 3 and out as much as the Packers have been doing, the other team not only wins the field position battle, but your defense tires out. Last nights game was a shinning example of how far our defense has come, except for the first quarter and a large part of that was due to the offense sucking, the Defense played outstanding. Maybe now with Ryan playing and some work on short underneath pass defense, I'm pretty confident with our Defense, especially if the offense can get rolling and give the D not only a lead, but less time on the field.
     
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  7. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    It's also worth pointing out that 7 of the Bears points came off a short field following an Eddie Lacy fumble.
     
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  8. LarrysCrookedFinger

    LarrysCrookedFinger Cheesehead

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    Bottom line is that this is the same team that started 6-0 minus a couple of key players. As inexplicable the fall-off has been, they can just as easily inexplicably turn it back around. The biggest things are getting the OL healthy and getting a couple of receivers back. I've already written off Lacy for the season and Starks/Crockett can get it done if necessary. Lacy sucked when we were 6-0 too. As has been mentioned, the defense is fine, although they really missed Randall last night.
     
  9. Jdeed

    Jdeed Cheesehead

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    Realism is Packers do not do well against good Defenses.
     
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  10. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I also liked that TC or MM made the decision to mix things up by putting different receiver packages in. Granted, when it came down to crunch time they seemed to go back to Cobb, Jones and Adams, but change can be good!
     
  11. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I hope Randall comes back soon, he was practicing last week, but I guess Montgomery was a few weeks ago too, in limited fashion and has been out since so who knows. I would like to see those to young guys back for the last part of this season and see what this team can do. I'm guessing our OL will be what it is, revolving door of hopeful mediocrity and we'll have to deal with it. If they can get it together, I like our chances even more.
     
  12. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    We have beaten 3 teams with top 10 defenses (Seattle, K.C, and Minnesota) so I don't necessarily believe that more then I think we beat ourselves with mistakes.
     
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  13. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    Completely Agree Wimm. Our D has been repeatedly on the field of play more than anytime I can remember in recent history. add some of those points were a direct result of a turnover by our own Offense on our side of the field. This Defense is credited with our winning record or we'd be bottom feeders with the Lions
     
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  14. PackerfaninCarolina

    PackerfaninCarolina Cheesehead

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    I do think being a Packer fan in the online world, and perhaps for most NFL teams in general there always will be a war between optimistic and pessimistic fans. There will always be both. As far as being upset at things going wrong or wanting some changes, hey, nobody likes bad football and this year there is no joke that we have seen some pretty bad football. But at the same time, there's a reason the season is never over until that final whistle sounds in a game. As bad as it has been, I don't for one minute think this team has forgotten how to win, even if it may be tough sledding doing so.

    I'll be honest that even as an optimistic fan, the way our team started out there I certainly was not seeing anything good coming of that game. Had not seen a Packer team just looking not only in disarray but just plain old unprepared and undisciplined to that level since about 2005, and it definitely looked extremely bad out there. But that being said, I never abandoned the ship in that year or the year after and stayed patient with the team for good reason, and last night was another reason why we as Packer fans have been blessed to have games like these over the years and why we can never take Aaron Rodgers for granted.

    What will happen in the coming weeks? Could we win out the season entirely and magically get a 2nd seed? Extremely highly unlikely, but this year has been strange enough that we can't rule it out entirely. By the same token, could we just all the sudden lose out from here and miss the playoffs? I'd think at 8-4 and with an inside track on at least most of the other teams on the out looking in, that would not happen, but again that's not impossible.

    I have to think at this point though, this team is not seeing any game as a gimme, I feel they will come out prepared starting next week and do what they said in treating every game like a playoff game.
     
  15. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    The first sentence is so wrong it's not worth reading the rest.
     
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  16. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    We were producing offensively in a good part because of "backyard football". Aka, broken plays where Rodgers finds somebody after scrambling. Montgomery helped, but that approach has seemed less effective and they are getting more pressure on Rodgers and the receivers aren't getting open. It was rarely because of stellar play calling or execution.
     
  17. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I don't think anyone can be overly optimistic after watching the front 60 minutes of last night's game.

    I was completely taken aback, flabbered AND ghasted at what I witnessed in the first 2 1/2 quarters last night. The Pack hadn't scored since Favre's number was retired - ok...I'll knock it off.

    However, something like this can work wonders toward a team's cumulative psyche and I'm hoping that will be case.

    I'll take this win at face value. A division and a conference win -- and will ride the bandwagon as far as it goes. Go Pack!!

    Still, my enthusiasm is still a little muted because you can't unsee something that has been seen. I tried scrubbing my eyes with a steel brush to get rid of the memories of the Bears game and the vast majority of yesterday's game ... nope still lingering post traumatic stress lingering.

    AGAIN...Go Pack!
     
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  18. mkonyn

    mkonyn Cheesehead

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    The real proof the offense is poor? Look at our touchdowns. Other than the Adams TD, we have a fumble into the end zone that amazingly had Cobb ready to fall on it, AR 20 yard run, and a 61 yard hail marry. These are all (including Adams' catch) 1 in a 1,000 chance plays.
     
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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The offense struggled during three of the wins at the start of the season as well. If it would be that easy to fix the coaching staff would have found a way to do it by now. There's hope that the Miracle at Motown somehow helps them to turn it around though.
     
  20. LarrysCrookedFinger

    LarrysCrookedFinger Cheesehead

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    The Hail Mary actually has about a 1 in 7 success rate in the NFL. Just sayin'
     
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  21. Sky King

    Sky King Cheesehead

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    Count me in the guarded optimism group. They have a chance to make a serious run in the postseason if they can only get hot. But since they have not gotten hot all season -- actually more the opposite -- my expectations tend to be somewhat modest.

    Since many issues in football and life in general are much more complicated than to be solved by only a single,solitary solution, i.e., start player A, call play B, fire coach C, etc. Therefore, my hypothesis is that the season-long underachievement is more the result of synergy than an obvious, isolated problem. Some considerations:

    Jordy Nelson's absence has helped to limit offensive production. But unless he was the real MVP last season instead of Aaron Rodgers this should represent a pothole in the road to the SB, not the rough equivalent of having the bridge getting entirely washed-out ahead.

    Injuries, in general, have truly hurt this team, especially so when a single position group has an unusual number of players injured concurrently. That no doubt severely limits the team's ability to play consistently and find any kind of rhythm. And the continuous run of ankle injuries this season seems to defy the odds. The offense has been hit hard this way all season long this way.

    Reorganization of the coaching assignments. Maybe not so coincidentally with the sudden dysfunction of the offense's performance on the field, the vast majority of coaching reassignments have also occurred on offense. Go to the official Packers website and look at the coaches' titles. Pay particular attention to the Associate Head Coaching positions and their place within their respective position groups.

    http://www.packers.com/team/coaches.html

    Try to figure out who reports to whom. Good luck. If the organizational chart represents the function of the staff accurately, then this peculiar brew of coaches and assignments may represent dysfunction. This organization needs to be flattened-out and their roles and responsibilities more clearly defined. At worst, it looks like the chain-of-command on offense is a patchwork of ad-lib assignments with no clear-cut flow of authority to the alleged coordinators. McCarthy looks like the overseer of a mosh pit of coaches. What do their titles really represent?

    Whatever has ailed this team all season long still does. The Hail Mary victory needs to be viewed in perspective. I'm enjoying its uniqueness but hardly seeing it as a sign that all is now suddenly well. And unless McCarthy gets this all sorted-out effectively I have serious doubts that this team can make a meaningful run in the playoffs, at least not this year. It may take an honest self-scout this offseason to cure what is really ailing them, and coaching chain-of-command needs to be a part of that.

    Injuries have severely limited this teams abilities to perform and IMO the offensive coaching staff may be limited by its own dysfunctional structure. To me, it looks like lower-ranking officers within both the offense and defense may actually outrank those allegedly ranked higher, which is not the sign of effective, fluid command.
     
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  22. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Put me in the "show me" column. This team has had issues for two months now, leading me to believe there are no comprehensive answers, at least for this season. While a lot of fun, the Lions game was just more of the same problems on display. It's not just having a down year compared to what we've come to expect, it's that for too many stretches this team has looked from dysfunctional to incompetent. Injuries have hurt, but the issues have been too glaring- and too across the board- to think that improved health, and a bizarre comeback against a sub standard opponent, will result in this team suddenly turning everything around and becoming a legit Super Bowl contender.
     
  23. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Partly. You can thank the Lions for not passing for the first down when they could have run out the clock at the end of the game. Their receivers were wide open all game, particularly on the penultimate 3rd down that gave them a first down.
     
  24. mkonyn

    mkonyn Cheesehead

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    You are joking right now, right? Way to pick and choose what you want to hear. Even if this stat were true, all of those things happening in the same game are pure luck. Are you next going to try and argue that the fumble into the endzone recovered by Cobb wasn't pure luck? Or that AR having to run a 20 yard TD untouched is just something that happens every day? Tell me, what are the chances of a 61 yard hail mary? Or lets get even more specific, what are the chances of a face mask extending the game to put a team within 61 yards of the endzone with no time left and then actually make the hail mary pass? In the last 10 years there have only been 4 passes over 60 yards. Your comment is bad and you should feel bad.
     
  25. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Why should he feel bad ? Even i
    Why should he feel bad ??. Even if he is wrong, he's entitled to voice his opinion.
     

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