The real reason that Mike Sherman is a FAILURE

[Steel Wheels]

If we look down the list of the top QB's in NFL history we will find a common denominator. They all were able to move the ball consistently and were able to get points on the scoreboard. Above and beyond that they had the ability and leadership qualities to guide their teams to winning NFL Championships and Super Bowls.

How many times have we seen NFL teams with great running backs and quality WR's who go nowhere because they don't have a quality QB who can lead them to the big games.

Looking at some examples:

Johnny Unitas led the Baltimore Colts to two consecutive NFL Championships in 1958 and 1959.

Bart Starr led our own beloved Packers to 3 NFL Championships in 1961, 1962 and 1965 and 2 Super Bowl wins in 1966 and 1967.

Joe Montana led the San Francisco 49ers to 4 Super Bowl wins in 1981, 1984, 1988 and 1989.

John Elway led the Denver Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl wins in 1997 and 1998. Elway also led the Broncos to 3 Super Bowls in losing efforts in 1986, 1987 and 1989.

Terry Bradshaw led the Pittsburgh Steelers to 4 Super Bowl wins in 1974, 1975, 1978 and 1979.

Troy Aikman led the Dallas Cowboys to 3 Super Bowl wins in 1992, 1993 and 1995.

Tom Brady has led the New England Patriots to 3 Super Bowl wins in 2002, 2004 and 2005.

All of these QB's are on anyones top 10 list. When a NFL HC has these type of QB's on his roster 75% of the battle is won. It is only a matter of providing an adequate 25% balance.

Mike Sherman inherited HOF QB Brett Favre who is on anyones top 5 list. Sherman didn't even have to depend on a GM to provide him with the additional 25% balance. Any HC who can't win any type of Championship with a top 5 QB is a complete FAILURE!

No one would be complaining if Mike Sherman accomplished his 53-27 regular season record with the run of the mill QB's we saw in Green Bay during the 70's and 80's like Scott Hunter, Jerry Tagge, John Hadl, Lynn ****ey, David Whitehurst or Randy Wright.

Mike Sherman has had a NFL HOF QB on his roster from day one! If you can't get the job done with one of the best, you are a FAILURE!

 

[PackerChick]

You cant expect everything.

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

Steel you seem to be looking for points to you basic premise that Sherman is a poor coach. Instead of attacking him. Let's discuss specific like clock management and use of the red flag.

As to the QB's I'm not buying it. What happend to Dan Reeves in Denver and Elway 1989-1997? There is a lot there to consider!!

Aikman after 1995 went through coaches and injuries.

Did Brady not step into a good team situation when he replaced a good QB like Bledsoe. Didn't the coach create the situation for him to step in and not the other way around?

Sherman is a good coach and you will have to do more than bad mouth him.
Speak specifics I gave you 2 areas but I think the 2 minute drill goes well enough.

He will be fresh this year and not weary from the GM side of things.

 

[TOPackerFan]

Dude, get over it. We all know you hate Sherman. This is getting really boring. Sherman deserves some criticism because of the failures in the playoffs, but you act like we've been suffering through 4-12 seasons. BTW, how has your hero Mike Holmgren done in Seattle? He's won exactly 0 playoff games in case you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Ryan]

Oddly enough I didn't even need to look who wrote this article... for some reason, I just knew :kickcan:

 

[Bruce]

This guy holds all these passing records ...

... and had Don Shula for a coach.

He never won a Super Bowl and only made it to one. By your illogical thinking which one was the failure Dan Marino or Don Shula???

RECORDS:
~~ Holds NFL career records for most touchdown passes -- 420;
~~ most yards passing -- 61,361; most passes attempted -- 8,358;
~~ most passes completed -- 4,967; most games with 400 or more yards passing -- 12;
~~ and most games with four or more touchdown passes -- 21.
~~ Holds NFL records for most seasons with 4,000 or more yards passing -- 6;
~~ most seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 13;
~~ most consecutive seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 9 (1984-1992);
~~ most games with 300 or more yards passing -- 60;
~~ most consecutive games with four or more touchdown passes -- 4 (November 26-December 17, 1984);
~~ most seasons leading league in pass attempts -- 5;
~~ and most seasons leading league in pass completions -- 6. ...
~~ Holds NFL single-season records for most yards passing -- 5,084 (1984);
~~ most touchdown passes -- 48 (1984)(broken in 2004 by Manning);
~~ most games with 400 or more yards passing -- 4 (1984);
~~ most games with four or more touchdown passes -- 6 (1984);
~~ and most consecutive games with four or more touchdown passes -- 4 (1984). ...
~~ Holds NFL rookie-season records for highest pass completion percentage -- 58.45 (1983);
~~ and highest passer rating -- 96.0 (1983). ...
~~ Shares NFL records for most seasons leading league in yards passing -- 5;
~~ most consecutive seasons leading league in pass completions -- 3 (1984-1986);
~~ and most consecutive games with 400 or more yards passing -- 2 (December 2 and 9, 1984). ...
~~ Shares NFL single-season record for most games with 300 or more yards passing -- 9 (1984).

MUST HAVE BEEN A FLUKE THAT YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE THE ALL-TIME LEADING PASSER IN YOUR ARGUMENT -- RIGHT????

 

[packedhouse01]

I think school is out yet on whether Mike Sherman is a good coach or not. I think not being GM anymore may help him as a coach, but only time will tell that. I have seen some reallly good things in Mike and I've seen some things I don't like. The bottom line is that the organization owes him this year. Lets see if surrounding himself with better quality coaches will make a difference. I think this will be the best collection of coaches he has had since he took over.

 

[Anubis]

Boring....

This topic has really become boring.

Steel Wheels:

We all know you hate Sherman. You can't seem to make a single post without mentioning that fact. It should also be apparent to you that many of us do not agree with your assessment of Sherman's performance, regardless of how much you try to convince us to believe otherwise. If you are a shareholder, you might be advised to voice your opinion at the next shareholder's meeting.

The bottom line is that Sherman will remain HC of the Green Bay Packers for the 2005 season. Whether that results in a 14-2 season, a 8-8 season or a 0-16 season, there is nothing you nor I can do to change that fact. As such, I suggest supporting your team as opposed to constantly tearng down them and their coaching staff.

Go Pack!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[ag]

packedhouse1- that hits the nail on the head. my only concern with mike s. is that we have a track record and he has consistantly not had his team ready to play in the important games. that said, he does deserve one year without the g.m. responsibilities. after that..............

 

[PackerChick]

You all can ignore Steel Wheels. Just click the ignore button by one of his posts and you will never see him again. I did just that.

 

[P@ck66]

the thing that amazes me though, is that he is not been lambasted in the press...

i guess it's a midwest thing, because if Sherman was coaching in NYC...he would definitely be on the hot seat and excoriated in the press....

give Sherman his year...if he screws up by making the same dumb *** mistakes, or by letting Rossley call horrible games...then fire his ever widening ***....

i myself, think he will blow it, but you people out there seem to have an infinite amount of patience....

Sherman should thank the gods that he's coaching in GB for that reason alone....

the sad thing is, he will have wasted Favre's remaining years for a SB run...i think, too high a price to pay for a "nice" guy who is inexperienced and doesn't know much about coaching football, and making gametime decisions (i still think Sherman is nothing more than a glorified OC)--Sherman has been an "experiment" that the PAckers and Favre couldn't afford...

 

[ArizonaPackerFan]

Re: This guy holds all these passing records ...

... and had Don Shula for a coach.

He never won a Super Bowl and only made it to one. By your illogical thinking which one was the failure Dan Marino or Don Shula???

Good point Bruce. Marino was a Hall of Fame QB, and Shula was a Hall of Fame Coach that were unable to win a Super Bowl together.

Tarkenton was a Hall of Fame QB and Bud Grant was a Hall of Fame coach that couldn't win a Super Bowl together.

Jim Kelly was a Hall of Fame QB and Marv Levy was a Hall of Fame coach that couldn't win a Super Bowl together.

I guess Steel Wheels would have fired all of those guys too, along with guys like Don Coryell who has been a Hall of Fame nominee even though he never even made it to a Super Bowl with a Hall of fame QB like Dan Fouts.

It's easy to fire someone you don't like, but you better have someone that's very qualified lined up if you want better results, or you could end up worse off like the 49ers are after they fired Steve Mariucci. Mariucci helped rebuild the 49ers after Young retired and would make the playoffs like Sherman, but they wouldn't advance very far so he was fired. The 49ers then hired a worse coach than Mariucci in Dennis Erickson who they since fired too. Now the 49ers are worse off than what they were before they fired Mariucci.

Steel Wheels probably won't debate any counter points though, as he usually just starts more threads bashing Sherman instead of debating the subject in the threads he already started. That's the part that gets old after awhile for me.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Sherman the GM/Coach I was not a fan of, however I will reserve my judgement on Sherman the coach only after this season is concluded. I firmly believe now he has the GM tag removed he will be a better coach, especially with the prospect of Bates taking his coach spot after the season.

 

[PackerTraxx]

Steel, you have some valid points. I am not a proponent of MS either for reasons I don't want to go into because he is going to be our coach this year. So I'm going to wish him and the Packers well, I hope they win a SB. It would not bother me at all to have him turn out to be a great coach and win multiple SBs and therefore I would have to change my thinking he should be replaced. If he doesn't perform up to the standards he should based on personell I'll call for his head also. But until that time I will back him. Badmouthing him now accomplishes nothing.

 

[NDPackerFan]

Steel Wheels,

The mere fact of saying all you need is a HOF QB to win championships is hilarious. This is a team game and you need help to get it done. If GB had more pieces of the puzzle in place, there would be more trophies in the trophy case by now. I think Favre is as integral as any player on the team and probably moreso than any other; however, it's impossible for him to do it by himself. Just doesn't work that way, sorry!

What's worse is now Sherman is being judged by you as being a failure because he inherited a top flight QB and he can't win the big one. I GUARANTEE you that he takes the 96 Packers to a championship with those players just like Holmgren did. Don't get too frustrated by the last statement I made Steel, it's just my humble opinion!

 

[IPBprez]

Bruce just blew Steel (Chase) Wheels right outta the water....
How can you not list Dan Marino, especially after having made the statement ---

Mike Sherman inherited HOF QB Brett Favre who is on anyones top 5 list.

Nice one, Bruce - Ya think he would have made it harder than just one shell over the bow!

 

[Steel Wheels]

Re: This guy holds all these passing records ...

... and had Don Shula for a coach.

He never won a Super Bowl and only made it to one. By your illogical thinking which one was the failure Dan Marino or Don Shula???

RECORDS:
~~ most seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 13;
~~ most consecutive seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 9 (1984-1992);

brucey boy......I thought you might like to know.

Marino is tie with Brett Favre with (13) ~~ most seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing
Brett Favre holds the record with (13) ~~ most consecutive seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing (1992-2004)

 

[Bruce]

Re: This guy holds all these passing records ...

... and had Don Shula for a coach.

He never won a Super Bowl and only made it to one. By your illogical thinking which one was the failure Dan Marino or Don Shula???

RECORDS:
~~ most seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 13;
~~ most consecutive seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing -- 9 (1984-1992);

brucey boy......I thought you might like to know.

Marino is tie with Brett Favre with (13) ~~ most seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing
Brett Favre holds the record with (13) ~~ most consecutive seasons with 3,000 or more yards passing (1992-2004)

Thanks Steely-boy for these slight tweeks in the numbers, Brett will break several more before he is finished too. But it does not account for your failure to answer the question regarding ignoring the top passer in NFL history in your post -- nor does it answer the absurd logic you put into this thread.

Are you saying that Don Shula was a failure as a Coach, since he had arguably the greatest passer in NFL history yet failed to win a Super Bowl with him?

It is a pretty straight forward question.

Arizona pulls some good examples off the top of his head also.
Tarkenton was a Hall of Fame QB and is all over the top 10 numbers in career passing and Bud Grant was a Hall of Fame coach that couldn't win a Super Bowl together -- are they both failures too? Should we be demanding Congressional hearings into the HOF selection process.

You need to get over your Sherman obsession and start enjoying this great game called football -- it might just provide you with some of the many life lessons you so obviously could benefit from.

 

[DePack]

OK...chase and 666...I'm about to post a blasphemous statement. I am a Sherman fan but I am an even bigger Favre fan. Nobody wants to put it in print. The BIGGEST reason for failure in the playoffs the past 4 years has been Brett Favre's play in those games. Go back and rewatch those games. He was horrendous against St Louis, awful against Atlanta(although injuries played a big part), brutal against Philly and ugly against Minnesota. That being said I think he is still the best of all times. However, don't use the fact that Sherman has had Brett Favre on his team to blast him when Favre has been as much of the problem in the playoffs as anyone.

 

[Obi1]

DePack,

YOU blasphemous heretic!

Actually, I never thought of it from that point of view... I guess I AM a BIG Favre fan...

I thought the Packers lost against the smeagles because of the 4th & 26 and the other playoff games as a result of poor defensive play.

Favre still put the Packers in position to win some of those games... The defense couldn't stop ANYBODY!

 

[packedhouse01]

I may be wrong OYW, but I too think that you have to expect a higher level of play from a future Hall of Famer player when you get to the playoffs. Granted there are tons of reason for not playing great, (bad and predictable play calling, dropped passes, wrong routes, missed block etc.) but the bottom line is you look for your veterans to not make key mistakes in big games. I realize that Brett's style of play is what has made him great and he has been maybe the most exciting player to ever play this game. I just expect more control in big games. But a lot of that goes back to Mike Sherman and his choice of OC's. I never thought much of Rossely and I do think we're terribly predictable, maybe more so than most playoff teams are. My hope however is that the coaching staff, with a bit stronger coaching will make the difference this year and that those coaches will bring some of the younger players along quicker than we have the passed 5 years.

 

[Greg C.]

DePack: Your blasphemous statement is accurate, as much as I hate to say it. It is discouraging that in his last two playoff games Favre has made arguably the two worst plays of his entire career: the overtime toss-up against the Eagles and the beyond-the-line-of-scrimmage "he's just having fun out there" pass against the Vikes. But he's still a great QB and I think he will play great if and when the Pack makes the playoffs this season.

Packerchick: Thanks for mentioning the "ignore" button. I hadn't realized that they had one of those on this forum. Now I will push the button and chase--er, Steel Wheels--will vanish. I love this forum!

 

[PackerChick]

Sure thing Greg. It works too. It will also indicate that you blocked this poster and you can view his post if you wish that is.

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

Other than lack of creativity in the offense(gimmick plays) and inability of the team to execute blocks against better defenses what is it that Sherman does that upsets some people so much?

 

[IPBprez]

Dang Cheez - what made ya resurrect this Steal Wheels thread?
I almost up-chucked my coffee.... whew.....

Personally - I think we have waaaay too many Sherman threads here... it's like the only thing people wanna chatter about....

What say we focus on the DC and the STC for a change... there's plenty to discuss in those areas, too!