The debate should end...for now

[wpr]

The Packers WON at HOME. Against a good team too!

Now Zero just how good can they be? After all they have not won a game all season.

 

[Aytumious]

and ignore doesn't work. Wonderful.

and you still FAIL at understanding field position.

FAIL.

The fact that ignore doesn't work makes it hard for me to post here despite some very knowledgeable fans. My stupidity threshold just gets met far too quickly.

dhpackr, here is a link for you. If you go through year by year and look at the defensive and offensive ratings of each Super Bowl winning team, you'll be surprised to find that the old cliche, "defense wins championships" has so much evidence behind it, it should be changed to a truism.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/

 

[pack_in_black]

Wow. A thread talking about how the debate should end for now degrades into another *****fest. Shocking.

Threads like this tend to just **** me off, and don't accomplish anything on this board.

 

[LambeauEast]

Defense wins championships, I agree with whole-heartedly. But I think we all would like to see the offense do SOMETHING. I understand Jennings was to be a major factor in last week's game plan, but i don't see how that could have happened with the O-line stinking up the joint. Brett STILL wouldn't have had the time needed.

With that said, I do believe things will get better offensively with the return of Jennings, Mo and hopefully K-Rob soon. And God PLEEEAAASE let the O-line get better....let's face it, it can't get much worse. And I know I'm just rehashing what other's have said a million times, just giving my two cents.

But no, with some of the people on this forum, I don't see the end to this debate for some time to come. Here's to 2-0 after this coming Sunday! :mug:

 

[warhawk]

and ignore doesn't work. Wonderful.

and you still FAIL at understanding field position.

FAIL.

The fact that ignore doesn't work makes it hard for me to post here despite some very knowledgeable fans. My stupidity threshold just gets met far too quickly.

dhpackr, here is a link for you. If you go through year by year and look at the defensive and offensive ratings of each Super Bowl winning team, you'll be surprised to find that the old cliche, "defense wins championships" has so much evidence behind it, it should be changed to a truism.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/

Gee. You mean that for the six years between 2000 and 2005 the Super Bowl winner ranked SECOND defensively on average out of 32 teams and those same winners ranked TENTH on average offensively?

THREE out of SIX years the SB winner was FIRST in DEFENSE and never higher than SIXTH? WOW!

I didn't know that. Did you know that? Cause I didn't know that.

Indy, who won last year only finished 17th defensively....BUT gave up an average of only SEVENTEEN POINTS a game during the entire playoffs which would have been good for 4th overall defensively on the year.

Geez. To think this guy has been spending the last couple of years emphasizing defense, I mean I gotta tell ya, don't it just make you throw your arms up in the air?

 

[IronMan]

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[wpr]

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I LOVE IT! (not cats or even kittens but this is too funny.)

 

[porky88]

in case you forgot, the bears, who were a defensive minded team, lost to the colts, an offensive minded team. end of story.

Having a good offense and poor defense really worked great for the Packers during the Sherman era.

 

[mkapp]

Both sides are accurate. Defense wins games...if you can put points on the board. So, I guess maybe offense wins games...as long as your D doesnt let them score.

I'm dizzy! Go Pack.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There are still plenty of holes in our defense...

Honestly, I don't see any holes right now. It's still too early to tell about some players who have yet to prove themselves, but at this point I'm optimistic. There is no Marquand Manuel, and no KGB, who became a major liability against the run when he began to wear down about halfway through last season. Poppinga had problems in pass coverage early last season, but he's been pretty good since then. Also, we don't have Ahmad Carroll playing the nickel, we have Jarret Bush, who looks pretty good so far. Also, I think Johnny Jolly brings more to the table at DT than Corey Williams and Colin Cole did, plus we still have those guys.

There's little depth at safety or LB, but as long as there are no major injuries at those spots (knock on wood) I just don't see any major weaknesses.

Our defense is greatly improved, but we're far from capable of denying a TD in every game as net suggested. One big hole is in our experience. The Eagles were able to exploit one of a great weaknesses, which is the screen pass. The D didn't produce many turnovers considering the pressure put on -- some very catchable INTs were dropped.

This is not a knock on the defense, these guys are good! I'm very happy with the group we have, as well as the coaches. My concern is that we're looking to rely on them too much, which isn't a good plan. We still need a strong offense to go far. Our skill players on offense are fine, but the OL needs to play better. If the OL plays strong, then the offense will done well and the defense can shut-down the opponents. It's a balance that we don't have right now, but hopefully the OL will come together soon.

GO PACK GO!!!

 

[wpr]

Bobby, Net wasn't implying that the GB defense is so good that they can shut out their opponent in every game.
He said theritically IF a defense is good enough to shut out an opponent, that team really doesn't need much of an offense. That theoretical team can win every game simply by kicking just 1 FG.
He also said that instead of complaining about how lousy the GB offense was that we as fans need to support this team, for now.

 

[warhawk]

It is obvious to me that sadly enough there are people here with such intense hatred for TT that they WILL NOT injoy a victory by our team regardless of how big that victory is for the team or it's fans.

This same type of whinning crap came up last year after we beat the Bears. "Oh, they didn't try." Didn't try my ***. We stomped their starters into oblivion and put them on the sidelines to watch. Period.

Now it's the Philly game. "Oh, but our offense was lousy." Well, how many ugly offensive games did we watch the Bears win last year. The last time I looked they won the North that year.

I submit to those of you that appear to never be satisfied it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY we will beat the San Diego's and INDY'S something like 35-0. In fact it may be after hell freezes over before that happens.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt even THAT would make some people around here happy. Personally, I have no sympathy for people that CHOOSE NOT to see the forest for the the trees.

For those of you that forgot this WE BEAT THE EAGLES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN LIKE FOREVER.

Here's to you lying in the bed you made and all the misery you seek while the GREEN BAY PACKERS go on to a fine and successful season.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Bobby, Net wasn't implying that the GB defense is so good that they can shut out their opponent in every game.
He said theritically IF a defense is good enough to shut out an opponent, that team really doesn't need much of an offense. That theoretical team can win every game simply by kicking just 1 FG.
He also said that instead of complaining about how lousy the GB offense was that we as fans need to support this team, for now.

The offense sucked. So by saying that, does that mean I'm not supporting my team?? I will always support the Packers, rain or shine. My wife and I went to the last game of the season 2 years ago, when we won the game to improve our record to 4-12.

Basically, TT did a good job of building a good defense, but the offense has largely been ignored. The debate on the intelligence of that approach should continue until the offense picks it up and proves TT right.

 

[de_real_deal]

I saw the whole game on sunday. I thought our defense played pretty well. But really, they did not dominate. The eagles dropped quite a few balls, McNabb as great as he played was obviously slowed by the injury. The old McNabb would have broken all of those tackles in the past. He consistently drove the ball on us and i saw many of the same problems we had last year.

We still can not cover the middle of the field after 4 seconds. If we dont get good pressure on the QB, there is always someone open in the middle. Westbrook was open on almost every play it seemed. The McNabb of last year would have lit us up if he wasnt hobbled like now. Maybe not next week but soon, somebody is going to eliminate the stupid mistakes that the eagles had and throw up 45 pts on our defense. Im not trying to be negative, just honest.

We can not compete with the team as is. Teams are not goingto drop passes all day and muff 2 punts per game against us all year. We are not going to be facing qb's who should still be rehabbing torn acl's all year long. We needed desperately to get offensive help and a safety in the offseason but instead, we got an 8th string defensive tackle who was inactive and decided to pocket 13-14 million in cap space even though it does not carry over.

Happy times

 

[wpr]

Bobby, Net wasn't implying that the GB defense is so good that they can shut out their opponent in every game.
He said theritically IF a defense is good enough to shut out an opponent, that team really doesn't need much of an offense. That theoretical team can win every game simply by kicking just 1 FG.
He also said that instead of complaining about how lousy the GB offense was that we as fans need to support this team, for now.

The offense sucked. So by saying that, does that mean I'm not supporting my team?? I will always support the Packers, rain or shine. My wife and I went to the last game of the season 2 years ago, when we won the game to improve our record to 4-12.

Basically, TT did a good job of building a good defense, but the offense has largely been ignored. The debate on the intelligence of that approach should continue until the offense picks it up and proves TT right.

I am not try to say who is a loyal fan and who is not. I merely pointed out that Net did not say that he expected this Packer's team to shut everyone out every single week.
Everyone knows that this Packer's offense needs to pick it up 3-4 notches.

 

[warhawk]

I saw the whole game on sunday. I thought our defense played pretty well. But really, they did not dominate. The eagles dropped quite a few balls, McNabb as great as he played was obviously slowed by the injury. The old McNabb would have broken all of those tackles in the past. He consistently drove the ball on us and i saw many of the same problems we had last year.

We still can not cover the middle of the field after 4 seconds. If we dont get good pressure on the QB, there is always someone open in the middle. Westbrook was open on almost every play it seemed. The McNabb of last year would have lit us up if he wasnt hobbled like now. Maybe not next week but soon, somebody is going to eliminate the stupid mistakes that the eagles had and throw up 45 pts on our defense. Im not trying to be negative, just honest


going to be facing qb's who should still be rehabbing torn acl's all year long. We needed desperately to get offensive help and a safety in the offseason but instead, we got an 8th string defensive tackle who was inactive and decided to pocket 13-14 million in cap space even though it does not carry over.

Happy times

Really? All I heard all game long was how well he was moving around out there and it looked to me like he single handidly avoided about five sacks out there.

This contradicts everything I heard from the announcers on Sunday who seemed very impressed with his mobility. I was too. I thought the guy moved around great out there and missed any "hobbling" going on.

 

[de_real_deal]

Warhawk, he did move out there very well, but not nearly as well as he used to before the injury. I felt bad for him even though i was happy for us. I remember at least 4 - 5 times where he broke containment and was running away and got shoe string tackled by a defensive lineman or linebacker. That didnt happen in earlier years. He was playing tentative and i saw a little limp in his giddyup. Not saying that is the only reason they lost, it was just a point i was making. He played very well.

 

[warhawk]

Warhawk, he did move out there very well, but not nearly as well as he used to before the injury. I felt bad for him even though i was happy for us. I remember at least 4 - 5 times where he broke containment and was running away and got shoe string tackled by a defensive lineman or linebacker. That didnt happen in earlier years. He was playing tentative and i saw a little limp in his giddyup. Not saying that is the only reason they lost, it was just a point i was making. He played very well.

Brett played better years back as well so I guess that matchup would be considered about even wouldn't it?

Philly put pressure on Favre causing him to fumble giving the Eagles great field position and oppurtunity to not only score but win the game.

They had the ball on our seven with a first and ten and we held them to a field goal.

They catch a huge break when we sack McNabb back on their seven only to get out with the penalty on Woodson. I think that break was worth a couple of dropped passes don't you?

You can look at various breaks in the game but the bottom line is our defense made the plays when they had to and in the end that's why we won this game.

Just because playing good defense has not been the norm around here for many years doesn't mean we won't win more games because of how well our defense may play.

In fact I can see many wins with the defense being the biggest reason for them. I see that trait in a lot of teams that win SB's.

 

[net]

in case you forgot, the bears, who were a defensive minded team, lost to the colts, an offensive minded team. end of story.

It's hardly the end of the story. The Colts defense is what enabled them to win last year and against the Bears. They always had the offense with Dungy and Manning.

 

[cheesey]

In the past, our offense had to score almost every drive for us to stay in games.
Now our D finally seems to be coming on. HOPEFULLY the O will get together and start putting up some points. It's way to early to say they suck. It was only ONE game (which by the way, we WON) I think the O WILL come around, and we will have a well rounded playoff caliber team THIS season.

 

[porky88]

in case you forgot, the bears, who were a defensive minded team, lost to the colts, an offensive minded team. end of story.

It's hardly the end of the story. The Colts defense is what enabled them to win last year and against the Bears. They always had the offense with Dungy and Manning.

Yeah holding LJ in check in the wild card game really surprised me. A lot of people thought Indy was going to lose that game because of their run defense.

The next week they stuff Jamal Lewis and the Ravens holding them in check as well.

New England gave them trouble in the AFC Title game but New England always gave Indy trouble. Much like Dallas always gave the Packers trouble in the mid 90's.

They bounced back nicely against Chicago causing some turnovers and I believe the Bears only had one offensive TD.

So the Colts D very much was a big part of their playoff run.

 

[dhpackr]

in case you forgot, the bears, who were a defensive minded team, lost to the colts, an offensive minded team. end of story.

It's hardly the end of the story. The Colts defense is what enabled them to win last year and against the Bears. They always had the offense with Dungy and Manning.

YAWN!

 

[axelred13]

I'm not convinced Philly IS a good team.

 

[gopackgo]

in case you forgot, the bears, who were a defensive minded team, lost to the colts, an offensive minded team. end of story.

It's hardly the end of the story. The Colts defense is what enabled them to win last year and against the Bears. They always had the offense with Dungy and Manning.

YAWN!

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[de_real_deal]

Warhawk, he did move out there very well, but not nearly as well as he used to before the injury. I felt bad for him even though i was happy for us. I remember at least 4 - 5 times where he broke containment and was running away and got shoe string tackled by a defensive lineman or linebacker. That didnt happen in earlier years. He was playing tentative and i saw a little limp in his giddyup. Not saying that is the only reason they lost, it was just a point i was making. He played very well.

Brett played better years back as well so I guess that matchup would be considered about even wouldn't it?

Philly put pressure on Favre causing him to fumble giving the Eagles great field position and oppurtunity to not only score but win the game.

They had the ball on our seven with a first and ten and we held them to a field goal.

They catch a huge break when we sack McNabb back on their seven only to get out with the penalty on Woodson. I think that break was worth a couple of dropped passes don't you?

You can look at various breaks in the game but the bottom line is our defense made the plays when they had to and in the end that's why we won this game

Just because playing good defense has not been the norm around here for many years doesn't mean we won't win more games because of how well our defense may play.

In fact I can see many wins with the defense being the biggest reason for them. I see that trait in a lot of teams that win SB's.

We were very good most of the game but not very good at all on a few drives. Just a little inconsistent but only the 1st game of the year.
Considering how slow we started defensively last year and then came on late in the year, im thinking it might be the same this year where we are a little inconsistent in the first couple of games rather than first half of the season like last year. I'd feel a little more comfy with a stud FS back there but i think we can overcome mediocre play at the position.

The only time Favre won a superbowl our defense was loaded so hopefully the offense can overacheive and we can make a push. If our offense can score 20 points, i think we can beat anyone...... in the nfc.