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The CornerBacks

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TJV, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I recently read that Capers played nickel almost 80% of the time last season.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
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  2. milani

    milani Cheesehead

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    So many teams have gone away from base D for most of a game. It has become a passing league and when you face the Packers D it makes sense to pass: Lack of pass rush, blitz crazy, man to man, lots of illegal contact calls.
    There are some teams that still love to run the ball. KC took advantage of no Ryan Pickett for our only loss last year. But by and large it will be pass, pass, pass.
    It takes a different type of secondary to play defense today. Guys like Jack Tatum, Chuck Cecil, and Willie Wood made their living with the body contact that scared receivers. Today you breathe on a pass catcher and it's a penalty.
     
  3. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Nice piece.

    I've long felt the loss of Nick Collins was bigger than most realize, and is ultimately what destroyed our defense last season because it limited what we were able to do in coverage, which also impacted our pressure schemes. As for Tramon, I knew he had a shoulder injury, but I didn't realize it was that bad all year long. Unfortunately, nerve regeneration isn't very predictable, and heals on it's own timetable. It's encouraging to hear he's gaining some strength back.
     
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  4. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    You touched on it Jack but the third need for our defense along with pass rush and better secondary coverage is tackling. The Packers were an awful tackling team last year.
     
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  5. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    McCarthy and the defensive staff have been hammering the players on the need to improve the tackling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
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  6. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    I agree it wouldn't have an impact on Williams recovery or the piss poor tackling, but my feeling is losing Collins and replacing him with Peprah severely limited what we were able to do from a coverage and pressure standpoint. I don't have numbers to back it up, and could certainly be wrong, but for example, I feel like we didn't send Woodson on very many blitzes last season because he was needed in coverage. We also relied more on Sam Shields to stop the run, which wasn't his strong suit. We weren't able to get as creative as the season before because Peprah doesn't have nearly the same talent and ability as Collins. Ultimately I feel like losing Collins forced us to alter our defense and we just never recovered.

    I expect dramatic improvement this season though, though it's not hard to improve by leaps and bounds when you're a below average defense. I think Neal is on his last straw and is in a put up or shut up year, and I love that we brought in a lot of guys to see if anyone can bring pressure and get to the quarterback. I also love what I'm reading about our newer linebackers and defensive backs making dramatic improvements from year 1 to 2. There is definitely a ton of intrigue with this team.
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I'm hoping somebody other than Peprah steps up and wins the second safety spot. We need a serious upgrade at the safety.
     
  8. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Of the three headed monster, i.e pass rush, coverage and tackling I think the poor tackling was the thing I got the most pissed about not that I was happy about the other two. Yes Jack, MM has been talking about improving that aspect but it fell on deaf ears last year. Here's hoping this off season brings about a change. Poor tackling drives me bonkers.
     
  9. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Poor tackling will cost you games and plummet your D rating. I think by far that's the biggest thing that needs to be improved.
     
  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    With all due respect, I don't think we gathered a plethora of D Linemen to only use 2 at a time. That being said, I doubt you will find many who can disagree with such a well written post. I truly enjoyed reading it.

    On the tackling issue, raise your hand if you lost count of all the time you yelled "HIT HIM!!! last season as I did.
     
  11. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    Well, technically Collins wasn't replaced with Peprah. He was replaced by Burnett and Peprah moved into the SS role that he played in 2010. I agree with everything else though.

    Losing Collins obviously hurt, but the defense looked terrible in the 1.5 games when he was still playing. I'm fairly confident the main reason the defense faltered so much was due to a lack of pass rush. A secondary can only cover for so long, no matter how talented. Eventually, something will come open, especially for an elite QB. Of course, pass rush may have been the main factor, but it was a cumulative effect of a poor pass rush, poor communication and tackling, gambling too much, not playing fundamentally sound defense, etc. etc.

    I can't imagine any way the defense isn't significantly improved next season though, just like most others here.
     
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  12. Headrush

    Headrush Cheesehead

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    I agree 100%. It all starts with the pass rush!

    Also was yelling at the TV every time I saw Shields tip toe around a pile. That boy needs to toughen up and hit some people. He was too "Finesse" last season IMO. He could learn a lot from Wood, more than just coverage and anticipation. It amazes me the way Woodson throws himself into plays. Love that guy, and the way he plays demands respect of the rest of the D

    As far a Neal... I hope he gets his act together. If he turns out to be the player TT thought he was, plus Worthy and Perry too. This D is gonna be tough, fast, and nasty! I cant wait to see if Merling or Hargrove bring a little to the mix too
     
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  13. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Because they are so interdependent IMO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  14. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    An excellent article on the decline of tackling in the NFL:
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/tackling-the-issue-in-the-nfl-lh5p210-158997705.html
    I think we can all agree the loss of Nick Collins was really bad. It should be. Losing pro bowl players in any level of your defense will cause you to make adjustments based on the personnel available, their experience and talent level. It's why we always say it takes time to judge a draft. I am excited about Davon House obviously, Sam Shields can't be hurt by this offseason here and Tramon Williams was hurt more than alot of us probably knew. OK, I"m going to also mention Bush, they guy keeps sticking around, he one day HAS to become a savvy vet right?
    I think the Packers, knowing they didn't have the pass rush had resorted to a more gambling type of defense last year and it certainly helped, they got those turn overs but it wasn't enough in the end to completely overcome the rest. Enough 20 plus yarders has got to help you win games.
    I don't think anybody could have watched the Packers D last year and not understood that the secondary, depleted as it was, really didn't have a chance. I like our secondary, but if it's not bolstered at least somewhat by a better pass rush our D will not be significantly improved.
    So yes, lots to consider, if the rush gets some pressure, if our secondary players improve (new guys for dime) I think gambling makes more sense, QBs will be a little more excited in the pocket and make a few more mistakes. Turnovers are game changers and with the D in depth a missed tackle can be embarrassing but a defense that crowds to the ball with some better tackling should be enough.
    Oh, Mike Neal will be a factor in the pass rush this year. I'm predicting it.
     
  15. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I'd say more run-stuffers than anything, which is really all we need them to be IMO. I am however excited about the possible caliber of depth at CB. We may well have a very some incredible talent on our hands, to the point that we may possibly keep six on the roster.
     
  16. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    If we're going to get more pass rush it's going to come from Nick Perry. Worthy and eventually our two suspended players Neal and Hargrove may provide some, but ROLB and LOLB are where it's going to come from. Who knows? Maybe Dezman Moses may be able to contribute as well.

    I also have hopes for Terrell Manning, but he may be a year away from making any kind of contribution to the defense.
     
  17. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I do, too, and agree with this statement. I think many teams under valued him and he could be a great pick. Potentially another guy like Bishop, but potentially even better. Of course, I'm biased being an NC State guy and all.
     
  18. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Heard that McMillian has also taken snaps in the slot. This could be an interesting development at DB
     
  19. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Wilde talked about the CBs on Homer’s show today.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016

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