The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

[Mavster]

If you want more explosive plays you should probably bring in some explosive receivers.

 

[GB2016]

Ranking top 10 QBs for 2020 NFL season: Rodgers barely misses cut, Stafford poised for career year


10. Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger


9. Buccaneers' Tom Brady


8. Eagles' Carson Wentz


7. Lions' Matthew Stafford


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6. Texans' Deshaun Watson


5. Cowboys' Dak Prescott


4. Saints' Drew Brees
3. Seahawks' Russell Wilson


2. Ravens' Lamar Jackson


1. Chiefs' Patrick Mahomes


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...y-misses-cut-stafford-poised-for-career-year/

 

[gbgary]

You're the only one capable of turning MLF mentioning that he wants to be more aggressive calling plays into Rodgers hasn't bought into his system

dude. i'm not the only one. it's been brought up everywhere (except Packers.com) since shortly after MLF was hired and rodgers said he didn't want to give up changing the play at the line. how many times do you have to be hit in the head with it? this last draft is a result of it.

 

[Mavster]

dude. i'm not the only one. it's been brought up everywhere (except Packers.com) since shortly after MLF was hired and rodgers said he didn't want to give up changing the play at the line. how many times do you have to be hit in the head with it? this last draft is a result of it.

I guess MLF will have to wait at least 2 years before Love can bomb it to Degura to hit his preferred aggresive play quota. Other than that I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

dude. i'm not the only one. it's been brought up everywhere (except Packers.com) since shortly after MLF was hired and rodgers said he didn't want to give up changing the play at the line. how many times do you have to be hit in the head with it? this last draft is a result of it.

Once again, I think it's BS that Rodgers hasn't bought into MLF's system. Yet you consider that to be a fact for some unknown reason.

As a side note, it would be extremely stupid to not take advantage of Rodgers ability to change plays at the LOS.

 

[Do7]

Once again, I think it's BS that Rodgers hasn't bought into MLF's system. Yet you consider that to be a fact for some unknown reason.

As a side note, it would be extremely stupid to not take advantage of Rodgers ability to change plays at the LOS.

A team doesn't go 13-3 and "not buy" into the system. @gbgary Idk what point you're trying to prove this time, but saying Rodgers didn't buy into the system is asinine. Even Rodgers said he didn't have to carry the load and they can still win.

 

[PackAttack12]

As a side note, it would be extremely stupid to not take advantage of Rodgers ability to change plays at the LOS.

Rodgers stats weren't eye popping last year, but he was constantly processing information at the line and getting the offense into the right plays, especially in the 4th quarter. To handicap Rodgers with stripping him of the ability to change plays would be unprecedented for a hall of fame player.

I don't know of a single high level NFL quarterback that doesn't have the ability to audible at the LOS. And that's how it should be.

 

[Do7]

Can we acknowledge that while Rodgers stats may have went down, we can in the same breath acknowledge that Aaron Jones' stats went higher as a result? Typically if you focus more on running then chances are the QB stats are going to drop.

 

[gopkrs]

Can we acknowledge that while Rodgers stats may have went down, we can in the same breath acknowledge that Aaron Jones' stats went higher as a result? Typically if you focus more on running then chances are the QB stats are going to drop.

I agree with that in part. But to my eye, Rodgers missed on open receivers last year more than I have ever seen him. Hard to complain when 13 and 3 though.

 

[mradtke66]

I agree with that in part. But to my eye, Rodgers missed on open receivers last year more than I have ever seen him. Hard to complain when 13 and 3 though.

I'm not surprised. First year in a new system in forever? In a system that has historically had first year jitters? He was probably thinking far more than just playing once the ball was snapped.

Look to Falcons and Matt Ryan.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Can we acknowledge that while Rodgers stats may have went down, we can in the same breath acknowledge that Aaron Jones' stats went higher as a result? Typically if you focus more on running then chances are the QB stats are going to drop.

Aside of throwing for less yards in 2019 Rodgers' stats were pretty much on par with his numbers the previous season.

 

[rmontro]

Aside of throwing for less yards in 2019 Rodgers' stats were pretty much on par with his numbers the previous season.

Rodgers was playing hurt most of the previous season though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Rodgers was playing hurt most of the previous season though.

You're right, that should definitely be considered as well.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

MLF's the one who said it. take up the draft question with him. he wants more explosive plays. that could be a slant that does the distance or a bomb but whatever it is he wants his play call executed. you've heard the story about a moment in a game last season...rodgers coming off the field after a throwaway sees the look on MLF's face and asks "what do you want me to do?" MLF barks back "THROW THE F*&#ING BALL!"

I mean, I also want more explosive plays, but the Packers don't currently have a deep threat on the team that can reliably be trusted to A) be where they're supposed to be or B) catch the ball consistently. Adams is on-par with Michael Thomas as the best intermediate receiver in the game but the reliable receivers on this team are all short-intermediate guys.

Yes, Rodgers needs to take some extra chances downfield occasionally but people need to stop pretending it's some major hindrance to the offense. It's maybe 1-2 extra throws a game and maybe 1 of those might actually be completed every two games vs intercepted every 3 games. Based on what they've actually done, no defenses are altering their gameplan to stop MVS or ESB (the only potential deep threats on the team).

 

[XPack]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't the feeling last season was AR hogging the ball for long throws and not making short/intermediate throws? Now it looks like we've come a full circle.

 

[Mondio]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't the feeling last season was AR hogging the ball for long throws and not making short/intermediate throws? Now it looks like we've come a full circle.

Funny isn’t it? I wonder if they’re paying attention to what they say or are hoping we don’t?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't the feeling last season was AR hogging the ball for long throws and not making short/intermediate throws? Now it looks like we've come a full circle.

It doesn't have to make sense for gbgary to take shots at Rodgers.

 

[jon]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't the feeling last season was AR hogging the ball for long throws and not making short/intermediate throws?

I think it was more of the latter-- he passed on some throws because he thought they were too tight or something rather because of his ego saying 'throw bombs'.

There are enough long throws in the offense, and I think it's a leap to say that 12 held the ball just to get a few more.

Much more likely, his 'discomfort' with the new scheme coupled with his historic aversion to throwing pics made him hold it a few times when he should have let it go, when a receiver actually popped open as planned even though the window looked closed at first.

I watched the MLF "throw the ball!" play on an all-22 view yesterday, and that is what happened there: a deep crosser from the weak side came open late and Rodgers could have hit him for 20 on 3rd and long. He wasn't open when Rodgers first looked his way, and Rodgers never looked back to him. Perhaps MLF designed the play for a late look but....

 

[rmontro]

I think it was more of the latter-- he passed on some throws because he thought they were too tight or something rather because of his ego saying 'throw bombs'.

I figured it was because "Nope, don't like that guy....nope, don't trust that guy...That guy said something snarky to me in the hall...oh well, better just throw it away."

 

[HardRightEdge]

dude. i'm not the only one. it's been brought up everywhere (except Packers.com) since shortly after MLF was hired and rodgers said he didn't want to give up changing the play at the line. how many times do you have to be hit in the head with it? this last draft is a result of it.

LaFleur, as in most NFL offensive systems, sends in the play call and an alternate. If the call is pass, the alternate is a run or vise versa. The QB has the latitude to audible from run to pass or vice versa. How do I know this? Because Rodgers has mentioned it, commenting on such an audible on a particular play. I've heard Joe Thomas (the future HOF OT, not the ex-Packer) discuss this on a podcast as a common approach. This is one factor in why it takes awhile to get out of the huddle.

At the more granular level, Sternberger commented on the "check with me" on his TD catch in the SF playoff game. You see that in the tape. Sternberger turns his head toward Rodgers, Rodgers is facing him, the route adjustment is made. This stuff is built into the offense.

It is actually kind of dumb to think a call is made in the huddle, the helmet speaker goes off with 15 seconds on the play clock, the offense lines up, and you run that play regardless of what the defense shows. It's like committing to your next chess move before the other guy has made his.

I'm not sure what all these sources other than Packers.com are thinking but you might want to consider whether it is overbaked if not outright false.

Coming into this past season, LaFleur had 16 games experience calling plays. And the system he came out of in LA is backsliding in their attempts to make Goff a robo-QB, probably because they have become predictable with the QB having less latitude to make needed adjustments without Goff having had the opportunity to learn it if they try to apply it. Maybe LA has to do that because Goff is a dim bulb as far as reading defenses go.

In short, if LaFluer doesn't want audibling, kind of foolish to begin with, then he wouldn't send in alternate plays and he'd strip audible nomenclature from the line calls. He's smart enough and adaptable enough to not be so dumb.

If that's not enough, why do you think LaFleur discusses how they need to speed up the process, get the play in quicker, and get out of the huddle quicker. If you're playing robo-football, why would you care? Just line up, snap the ball, run the play, why doncha, if that's the case. Because it is not the case. While we can appreciate LaFleur for his inventive designs, they reach their limit at the 15 second mark.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think it was more of the latter-- he passed on some throws because he thought they were too tight or something rather because of his ego saying 'throw bombs'.

There are a lot of option routes in the NFL game, less common in the college spread and option offenses. That college approach is understandable given you have young QBs and receivers who might be elevated to starter for one or two years. You do not have the luxury of time to develop a player into a pro-style system where much of that development takes place in money game experience. "You don't learn anything holding a clipboard" applies to WRs as well as QBs.

It is in the option routes that the expression, "the WR is the second QB on the field", comes from. If you wonder why NFL WRs take time to develop, or some first round guys with all the physical talent in the world bust out, it is because they have to learn to read defenses and some never bet the hang of it. And then it gets down the granular level of film study of particular opponents, their strengths and weaknesses and tells.

We had a couple of examples of his this can go wrong with MVS. On one short cross he sits down and Rodgers is leading him into space. On the next, MVS runs through the slant and the throw is behind him with Rodgers expecting a sit-down. It is this kind of thing that sent MVS to the bench as playoffs approached. When you consider the accumulated knowledge and skill or those two players, who do you think is making the better read of the defense?

To your specific point, when you see the QB passing up a guy who has separation underneath you might want to consider that he's already checked off that guy because he's not running the expected route. Or maybe he has a single high safety and is looking deep, but he's not entirely confident of where or how the target will break and he has to wait rather than throw him open. Or it could be as simple as he doesn't have a passing lane. In the end, every QB misses open receivers in every game to one degree or another because of the eyes and mental focus simply cannot cover the full 180 degrees in front of him.

You hear Rodgers talk about single high safety not presenting itself all that often and needing to exploit it when it does. This is pretty common with accomplished QBs. Favre says he looked deep on every play, presumably up to the snap based on that safety positioning. You can be pretty sure Mahomes does likewise.

Having an effective run game is not for it's own sake. It's to set up play action, freeze a safety or get him to come up into run D creating a single high situation. You're sure not looking for that short middle throw into a mistaken safety closing down into that route. And if you have a play action call anticipating two high safety and that guy is creeping up pre-snap, I think you want your QB to audible out of that into a straight drop with a RB in blocking position to maximize your chance of success.

 

[gopkrs]

"the wide receiver is the 2nd QB on the field" Huh? Yeah, I hear that all the time.

 

[PackAttack12]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wasn't the feeling last season was AR hogging the ball for long throws and not making short/intermediate throws? Now it looks like we've come a full circle.

Surely you aren't expecting a response from @gbgary

 

[HardRightEdge]

"the wide receiver is the 2nd QB on the field" Huh? Yeah, I hear that all the time.

You have to listen to the right people I guess. I've even heard it said by a color commentator during a Packer broadcast. Regardless of who has or has not said it, option routes make it so. If you were wondering what chemistry between the QB and WR is about, this is the nub of it.

 

[gbgary]

I guess MLF we'll have to wait at least 2 years before Love can bomb it to Degura to hit his preferred aggressive play quota. Other than that I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

i predict this upcoming season is Rodgers last as a Packer. they'll take the $5m cap savings and move on to Love. i can't imagine them taking the $36m cap hit, and paying him $22m in 2021, with that cap being screwed by covid. by the end of the 2020 season Rodgers will have received all his guaranteed money and then some. no reason to delay the inevitable.
the last sentence...MLF wants to run HIS system (not a 75/25 mixture of MM's O [75 being MM's] and his own) and the only way that'll happen is with a new QB. that's why they drafted Love. Rodgers pushed back on MLF's system from the get go. that's why the offense looked so much like MM's...because most of it was MM's. the subject keeps coming up. where there's smoke there's fire. even Packer friendly guys like Aaron Nagler (Cheesehead TV), who loves Rodgers and the Packers, have said it. Nagler expects to see a lot less "spread" offense and more quick, timing, routes/throws, and running, this season than last. more use of the middle of the field. a lot less MM/Rodgers O in other words. MLF wants more "explosive" plays. that doesn't mean "bombs." will Rodgers run that offense? Nagler thinks so. i don't see why Rodgers would since he didn't last year. what's his incentive? he knows he's not going to finish his career in GB.
again...i don't hate Rodgers. he's had some great years. it's his attitude, cap hit, age, and diminishing skills relative to that cap hit, i dislike.