Ted can draft WRs...

[AmishMafia]

Since i don't keep track of other teams GM's or who has been in charge of drafting, I don't have answers for you. If you compile a list of GM's in the history of the NFL and what WR's they drafted during their tenure, I am more then happy to give you my opinion on how I think each one of them did. Of course it will also help to know about injuries, the QB's and the rest of the offense as well.

So to sum up:

• You have no idea what other teams and GMs have done in the past.
• You have no frame of reference on what can be considered a successful or not succesful draft
• You would like someone to do the research for you.
• But sans any information you were still able to determine other GMs are more successful than TT at drafting WRs.
• If you change the paramaters of the discussion to include non draft player acquisitions you are capable of listing teams with good passing offenses.

Did I miss anything?

 

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[Pokerbrat2000]

So to sum up:

• You have no idea what other teams and GMs have done in the past.
• You have no frame of reference on what can be considered a successful or not succesful draft
• You would like someone to do the research for you.
• But sans the information you were already able to determine TT was not highly succesful drafting WRs.
• If you change the paramaters of the discussion to include non draft player acquisitions you are capable of listing teams with good passing offenses.

Did I miss anything?

1. No, I don't have a spread sheet of each teams GM by year or who was in charge of draft decisions for each team. Can I borrow yours?

2. Define a successful draft for me, I'm listening.

3. If they want my opinion of something, then yes, they can do the research.

4. Determine? No, its strictly my opinion.

5. When evaluating the job that anyone does, do you limit yourself to just one aspect of it? If you want to evaluate the job TT has done evaluating WR talent, then I think it would only be fair to look at draft, UDFA. FA's and trades in regards to WR's

6. Define a good passing offense.

 

[AmishMafia]

1. No, I don't have a spread sheet of each teams GM by year or who was in charge of draft decisions for each team. Can I borrow yours?

2. Define a successful draft for me, I'm listening.

3. If they want my opinion of something, then yes, they can do the research.

4. Determine? No, its strictly my opinion.

5. When evaluating the job that anyone does, do you limit yourself to just one aspect of it? If you want to evaluate the job TT has done evaluating WR talent, then I think it would only be fair to look at draft, UDFA. FA's and trades in regards to WR's

6. Define a good passing offense.

1. Www.drafthistory.com
2. Selecting players that help your team. (Ps dont listen, that maybe your problem. You have to read on the internet.)
3. You offered your opinion but then admitted you had no knowledge on the matter. Most people gather information and then offer an opinion.
5. The topic you gave your opinion on was regarding TT ability to draft WRs. Not evaluating his overall job.
6. Please provide a spreadsheet with all the stats on passing offenses and I will pick out the good ones.

 

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[TJV]

In an attempt to help Pokerbrat2000, here’s a link from the site AmishMafia posted that just contains WRs drafted. But it only goes back to 1945 so…. Just try'n to be helpful.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr

 

[Poppa San]

If you want to know what teams I feel have done a better or equally good of job with WR's that they either drafted or brought in as UDFA in the past 10 years, I would have to say Pittsburgh, Seattle, New Orleans and Philadelphia and possibly AZ.

I'll grant you Pittsburgh and probably N.O. as better. Equal for AZ but lacking in Philly and Seattle. I'll grant the Giants are better too.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

In an attempt to help Pokerbrat2000, here’s a link from the site AmishMafia posted that just contains WRs drafted. But it only goes back to 1945 so…. Just try'n to be helpful.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr

You get your reward in heaven

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

1. Www.drafthistory.com
2. Selecting players that help your team. (Ps dont listen, that maybe your problem. You have to read on the internet.)
3. You offered your opinion but then admitted you had no knowledge on the matter. Most people gather information and then offer an opinion.
5. The topic you gave your opinion on was regarding TT ability to draft WRs. Not evaluating his overall job.
6. Please provide a spreadsheet with all the stats on passing offenses and I will pick out the good ones.

1. Well maybe I am missing it, but drafthistory.com doesn't break drafts down by GM's/person(s) responsible for draft decisions.

2. Actually, I read and listen. When you don't listen to people, your knowledge becomes somewhat self contained. I guess by your definition all 32 teams have a successful draft each year, since I can't imagine GM's pick players that they view won't help their team.

3. Yup, got me there. In every post I fully admitted to having no knowledge before giving my subjective opinion . I stated that if someone wants my opinion of something else (other GM's), that I don't have full knowledge of, gather it and I will give you my opinion.

4. ???

5. I never said I was evaluating TT's overall performance. But if someone wants to talk about his ability to evaluate WR talent in the draft, then maybe we should look at what WR's he didn't draft but could have? And a full discussion would include UDFA WR's as well.

6. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?statisticCategory=PASSING



I get it, you don't like my subjective opinion on this topic and I think including players like Murphy, Adams and Montgomery as proof of TT's abilities in the matter is a stretch at this point. Nelson, Cobb, Jennings and Jones are the only 4 WR's out of the 15 that TT drafted that have had measurable success to this point (Jennings and Jones mainly when a Packer). Given where they were taken in the draft and the QB(s) they played with while in GB, if you want to say that makes TT a WR draft guru, then I respect your opinion.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'll grant you Pittsburgh and probably N.O. as better. Equal for AZ but lacking in Philly and Seattle. I'll grant the Giants are better too.

I looked at Philly and the names that jumped out at me were: Matthews, Cooper, Gibson, Jackson, Avant and Brown. While the Seahawks haven't done great drafting WR's, with only Lockette and Tate to show for it, their UDFA signings of Baldwin and Kearse prompted me to include them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In an attempt to help Pokerbrat2000, here’s a link from the site AmishMafia posted that just contains WRs drafted. But it only goes back to 1945 so…. Just try'n to be helpful.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/wr

Thanks TJV, some would say that my opinion is confused enough, why add more to it.

 

[rodell330]

Its unfortunate that what we thought we could have had in Cobb is an who I saw in college at CMU that was a mediocre WR, the man from the Steel City: Antonio Brown.. Dangle Cobb for a pick or defense... Adams and Jordy and the clan can take over and be just fine.

I have lost confidence that Adams can take over a game, yet alone replace Cobb. No way

 

[sschind]

??? if you're going to judge GM's on their 6th and 7th rounders I think you'll find most fail almost all the time. I don't know how anyone could argue with the success at pass catchers taken for this team in the past decade. and how could you not include Murphy? the guy looked every bit the part of an NFL receiver with good hands and much like Jennings, very smooth. yeah, his very young career was derailed before it could even start. A better question would be, How could you begin to hold a pick like that against a GM? young, very promising draft pick has career ended by freak neck injury and it somehow reflects poorly on the GM?

Put CJ with a guy named Christian Ponder, and I have a hard believing he puts up even 80% of career averages. The guy barely had it when he was a rookie and quickly lost all confidence in his ability and his play was a downhill race to the finish. James Jones caught 20 more balls with a rookie QB than he did with Rodgers. 6TD's for a WR is not world beating, but it's decent. More than he had the previous year with GB by double. I'd say his short time away showed he can play.

I just have a real hard time grasping how anybody would make an argument, that GB hasn't been very good with adding pass catching talent to the roster

My only beef would be that so many fans also include Adams, Janis, Abbredaris and Montgomery when they praise Ted for his WR picks. None of these guys have proven they can be stars in the NFL or even adequate so to use them as proof that Ted can draft WRs makes no sense to me.

3rd round and up he has been pretty darn good. Great even. Below that, not so much but like Mondio said how many GMs hit consistently at the bottom of the draft. I do think we have gone from one of the best WR groups in the NFL to better than average but a lot of that has to do with other teams catching up as much as it does with us failing to retain proven players. If we trade Cobb however, we take a step back in that category at least in the short term of the next two years or so until a rookie can step up.

 

[sschind]

Thanks TJV, some would say that my opinion is confused enough, why add more to it.

some would say your opinion is more than confused

 

[sschind]

??? if you're going to judge GM's on their 6th and 7th rounders I think you'll find most fail almost all the time. I don't know how anyone could argue with the success at pass catchers taken for this team in the past decade. and how could you not include Murphy? the guy looked every bit the part of an NFL receiver with good hands and much like Jennings, very smooth. yeah, his very young career was derailed before it could even start. A better question would be, How could you begin to hold a pick like that against a GM? young, very promising draft pick has career ended by freak neck injury and it somehow reflects poorly on the GM?

Put CJ with a guy named Christian Ponder, and I have a hard believing he puts up even 80% of career averages. The guy barely had it when he was a rookie and quickly lost all confidence in his ability and his play was a downhill race to the finish. James Jones caught 20 more balls with a rookie QB than he did with Rodgers. 6TD's for a WR is not world beating, but it's decent. More than he had the previous year with GB by double. I'd say his short time away showed he can play.

I just have a real hard time grasping how anybody would make an argument, that GB hasn't been very good with adding pass catching talent to the roster

My only beef would be that so many fans also include Adams, Janis, Abbredaris and Montgomery when they praise Ted for his WR picks.

So far I'd say Ted has hit on 4 out of 16 WR picks (Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb) With Adams, Janis, Abbredaris and Montgomery its too soon to tell one way or he other so I can't count them in the hit or miss so I guess I should take them out of the total as well. That leaves us at 4/12 in my estimation. 3/4 on second rounders, 1/1 on third rounders and a big ofer in rounds 4-7 Is this better than other GMs, I don't know but I don't know if I wouldn't call it great.

I think as Packer fans we tend to over rate some of the lesser talent just because of the hype and the potential we saw during a few preseason games and we tend to remember them that way as well.

As a comparison Ron wolf drafted 20 WRs and IMO hit on 5 of them (Brooks, Schroeder, Freeman, Driver, Ferguson) but they include a 6th and a 7th rounder.

So IMO Ted is at 33% with the potential to go higher (or lower when we factor in the last 4 guys) The fact that none of them were first rounders helps some in regards but I don't know if I would say he is a guru at picking WRs. If two of the last 4 hit then we can talk.

Note, I posted this before I read Pokerbrat's assessment that Nelson Cobb, Jennings and Jones were the only 4 that have really amounted to much. We just happen to agree.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Geez, another thread that makes you look like a fool.

Trading Cobb this offseason would result in $9.75 million in dead money counting against the Packers cap, an additional $600K compared to keeping him on the roster.

So, even if the Packers get offered a top 15 pick (won't happen) and feel comfortable without their best slot receiver (won't happen either) there's absolutely no way Thompson is going to trade him.

The Madden thing was a joke. You do know what a joke is right?
And it was so kind of you to mention that cobbs salary is guaranteed. Didnt make you look like a **** at all. I guess this decision was made before the deal was done... my bad.

As far as a top 15 pick for him? I assumed a 2nd round pick, who is a proven 10mil/yr guy. and has shown leadership and character. Not to mention is only 25 years old... MIGHT? Just MIGHT be considered valuable to a team in the bottom 50% of the league?????? But since you know everything and is never wrong. I will take your word for it.

 

[Mondio]

I wouldn't put Adams, Janis or abbrederis in there. Or montgomery either at this point, though I think he's going to be a very solid contributor in the future. he can move with the ball in his hands. I think the only thing that will stop him is injury. It won't be lack or work ethic or talent imo.

I think Ferguson was a SHerman pick, not that it matters much, I don't think he was all that great. I thought he may be, I still remember that catch against MN where he just turned back and snatched it. Thought he was going places after that, but overall, I think he was just an average receiver. Same with Schroeder. Brooks, Freeman and Driver I think were good for obvious reasons.

I think Adams right now, is everything Ferguson was, even with his terrible stretch this year. At this point, Janis is a solid pick considering where he was picked, anything more we get is gravy. Abbrederis still has the injury thing around him. But I don't think he'll ever be in a Cobb, Jordy, Jennings, Jones category. He'll be a 30-40 catch guy, maybe more if someone goes down. Not bad for where he's picked, but unless he's 70 catches or better, or 12TD's or better, he's just an average starting receiver too. Jury is out on Adams too.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Fast forward two years. What does our WR depth chart look like?

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Before this last season it was widely thought that TT was especially proficient at selecting WRs. A quick rundown of 3rd round or higher picks:

2005 TMurphy. Looked very promising before injury ended career.
2006 G Jennings. Ticked off many when TT didnt get popular name WR early and traded back.
2007. J Jones. Angered fans cuz he had bad hands. Led the league in TDs one year.
2008. J Nelson. Angered fans again. Became an elite guy.
2011 R Cobb. Looks like a good pick.
2014 D Adams. Looked great as a rookie. Will see.
2015. T Montgomery. Looked very good till injury.

Not a bust in the bunch, so far. And I think most of these were much better than expected. I would say TT has had more success than most GMs when it comes to WRs. I dont think you can attribute that entirely to Aaron Rodgers either.

He's used a lot of high picks on receivers (a second round WR pick will get a lot of talent these days), and paired with a great QB, they will produce.

I'll say he doesn't pick many busts, though the jury is still out on Adams, but he doesn't really pick any surprise superstars, either. Those guys are all solid physically and perform well, but none have really showed that they were worth more than a second round pick, other than Nelson.

You don't see any Antonio Browns or Brandon Marshalls who came out of nowhere to be game changers. Or even somebody like Victor Cruz or Baldwin who turned out to be steals. Just guys who were highly regarded in college, put in the best possible situation to succeed in GB, and have met expectations.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

He's used a lot of high picks on receivers (a second round WR pick will get a lot of talent these days), and paired with a great QB, they will produce.

I'll say he doesn't pick many busts, though the jury is still out on Adams, but he doesn't really pick any surprise superstars, either. Those guys are all solid physically and perform well, but none have really showed that they were worth more than a second round pick, other than Nelson.

You don't see any Antonio Browns or Brandon Marshalls who came out of nowhere to be game changers. Or even somebody like Victor Cruz or Baldwin who turned out to be steals. Just guys who were highly regarded in college, put in the best possible situation to succeed in GB, and have met expectations.

From Murphy to Montgomery. Ted hasnt missed. Adams will make all you haters eat your words.
As far as late round picks not making it. Swain had potential and if we had room on the wr roster, he would have been a decent 4th wr IMO. Johnson was a 7th rounder, and blew his acl. Ted always picks up undrafted and flyers for his practice squad. And they all look good IMO. But johnson was stole by MN and was their #1 wr the next year. Drom a d2 school...
The list brought up earlier of teams who drafted WR better than GB??? laughable. Not even close.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

From Murphy to Montgomery. Ted hasnt missed. Adams will make all you haters eat your words.
As far as late round picks not making it. Swain had potential and if we had room on the wr roster, he would have been a decent 4th wr IMO. Johnson was a 7th rounder, and blew his acl. Ted always picks up undrafted and flyers for his practice squad. And they all look good IMO. But johnson was stole by MN and was their #1 wr the next year. Drom a d2 school...
The list brought up earlier of teams who drafted WR better than GB??? laughable. Not even close.

That's what I said. Not many busts, but nobody has really looked like a surprise gem. And I disagree on Adams. He'll have a couple of good games when he has a generous matchup. But he's got so far to go physically and mentally to be a #1 receiver, and I'm not sure he's got that competitive fire or work ethic.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That's what I said. Not many busts, but nobody has really looked like a surprise gem. And I disagree on Adams. He'll have a couple of good games when he has a generous matchup. But he's got so far to go physically and mentally to be a #1 receiver, and I'm not sure he's got that competitive fire or work ethic.

cobb had a 1200+ 12td year before last. nelson and jones have had big ones back to back...

i think the truth is. many of them could be 1200+yd , double digit td guys...... but we always have 5 WR a couple rbs, and couple tes all wanting the ball. i personally devalue GB wrs in fantasy football for that reason

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That's what I said. Not many busts, but nobody has really looked like a surprise gem. And I disagree on Adams. He'll have a couple of good games when he has a generous matchup. But he's got so far to go physically and mentally to be a #1 receiver, and I'm not sure he's got that competitive fire or work ethic.

Lets remember Adams was in his 2nd year only last year. Had a couple injuries, besides the one that took him out. He is only 23 years old. You trying to tell me that with the Packers offense playing up to par, and Adams healthy.... He doesnt have potential?
Personally. Im giddy over the idea that Montgomery will become the #2 this year. Nelson opposite. Cobb in slot. And Adams being #4, the forgotten man. He is going to destroy nickel and dime backs... So will montgomery.

 

[OCBP]

Before this last season it was widely thought that TT was especially proficient at selecting WRs. A quick rundown of 3rd round or higher picks:

2005 TMurphy. Looked very promising before injury ended career.
2006 G Jennings. Ticked off many when TT didnt get popular name WR early and traded back.
2007. J Jones. Angered fans cuz he had bad hands. Led the league in TDs one year.
2008. J Nelson. Angered fans again. Became an elite guy.
2011 R Cobb. Looks like a good pick.
2014 D Adams. Looked great as a rookie. Will see.
2015. T Montgomery. Looked very good till injury.

Not a bust in the bunch, so far. And I think most of these were much better than expected. I would say TT has had more success than most GMs when it comes to WRs. I dont think you can attribute that entirely to Aaron Rodgers either.

Most GM's don't have Favre and Rodgers throwing balls for the entire time they've been a GM.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Lets remember Adams was in his 2nd year only last year. Had a couple injuries, besides the one that took him out. He is only 23 years old. You trying to tell me that with the Packers offense playing up to par, and Adams healthy.... He doesnt have potential?
Personally. Im giddy over the idea that Montgomery will become the #2 this year. Nelson opposite. Cobb in slot. And Adams being #4, the forgotten man. He is going to destroy nickel and dime backs... So will montgomery.

Montgomery is not a #2 receiver. Don't get Me wrong as I really like his talent and think he's absolutely an asset, but I don't see him making many catches along the sideline or down the field. On the other hand, I think he'll be a handful for most of the guys he's matched up against, due to his impressive burst, size, and effort. I think he'll be great at short to intermediate routes. I really hope he works to be a complete receiver, as he's got that explosiveness that can make him a dangerous receiver.

Adams has been disappointing with his lack of effort and immaturity. I discredit him more for this than his physical characteristics, which could be potent if he had the psyche of Boldin, but I don't see that competitiveness from him. I think he'll make occasional impressive plays, but I'm disappointed with his effort and intensity from play to play.