Talk of releasing Jones. Sad but true -- adios amigo

[McKnowledge]

Ummm...he's Minnesota bound on a 1yr/$7mil deal.

WTH? Oh…ok…this confirms that negotiations grew contentious…wow…

 

[milani]

It is tough losing Aaron Jones, and especially given the context of age vs money issue; but Jacobs (if healthy) is a complete back and can really produce behind GB's O-Line, which will be the best he's ever had.

Gute is going all youth....

This is a business and the AJ to JJ transition illuminates the brutal nature of free agency.

I can now really envision Aaron Jones going to the Cowboys or Texans, with Dallas probably being the frontrunner.

WOW...

Shocked me that he went to Minny what with Pollard leaving Dallas. Vikings still miss the old Dalvin Cook but he is not the same any longer.

 

[Thirteen Below]

WTH? Oh…ok…this confirms that negotiations grew contentious…wow…

Looking at it through Jones' eyes, I can certainly understand it.

He's been one of the best RBs in franchise history (arguably better than Ahman Green), one of our most popular players, and one of the most beloved teammates on the squad. Last season, the team asked him to take a $5,000,000 paycut after turning in arguably the best season of his aging career, and he never complained a bit. He took the hit for the team. This year, he was the key to getting us into the playoffs and beating Dallas, and he's asked to take another pay cut of (reportedly) $6,000,000 - so that Green Bay can afford to hire his successor, and use the $6M pay that successor the salary that they had promised to pay Jones next season!

And he still didn't ***** about it. Apparently, he actually gave it serious consideration because he loves Green Bay, loves the team, and loves his teammates. I don't know about you, but if my employer had ever suggested that to me when I was working, I'd have had a really tough time with it. Evidently he decided that he just was not going to be a happy camper in the locker room under those circumstances, and he did the classy, professional thing and moved on.

And I'm not raggin' on Gute here. It was a coldblooded move, but this is a coldblooded business, and Gute did what he felt he had to do for the good of the team. I doubt very much that he felt the least bit "good" about it. But there's just no way around the fact that sometimes, people who have been loyal to the team are going to be hurt when the numbers catch up with them and they have to face the reality that your only real monetary value to the team is how much you can help them win this year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Pretty much the same as gambling winnings. Hit it big in Vegas you are paying Nevada taxes on your winnings. Go to Churchill for the Derby and hit a superfecta Kentucky taxes.

Well yes and no. With gambling, you are choosing to go to those places on your own to engage in an activity of your choosing. Whereas an NFL player is an employee of business located in another state and is contracted to go work in other states.

Combine the 2 situations. You are a employed by Berlin Health in Green Bay on a $300K/year salary. They ask you if you want to go to Vegas on their nickel to attend a training seminar, you say "yes". One night you hit a casino and win some big money. You wont pay Nevada Taxes on the salary that you earned while in Vegas, but you will on your Casino winnings.

I wonder if a player travels to Vegas with the team, is on the active list, but doesn't see any snaps, does he still owe Nevada taxes? My guess is yes. Travels with the team, but is not activated on game day? No?

 

[El Guapo]

He's been one of the best RBs in franchise history (arguably better than Ahman Green)

I pretty much agree with all of your other points. It was spot on. Although...

Ahman Green was a workhorse for many seasons, was consistently available, and the main reason that we won games under the Sherman/Favre regime. We were a run-first team with a has-been gunslinger at QB. The only real knock on Ahman was his fumbling early in his career, which he was able to overcome admirably.

 

[gopkrs]

Don't like the way it turned out but Jacobs might be very very good. But we do need to open up holes for him, just like all runners need. And so I hope we add a couple of rookies in the first two days. One tackle and one for the inside. Can't say as I like the idea of moving Tom to the inside. The reason our line held up imo is because we found two tackles that could hold their own. And Tom can play left or right side. I could see and not be unhappy about ending up with two inside O linemen and one tackle. I feel strongly that as our O line goes, that's how we are gonna go. Gute is taking a both sides of the ball approach and I certainly cannot find fault with that. I just want the O line. And not be satisfied with "bringing them along." Or "our protection is good enough."

 

[rmontro]

Had our season been like 5-12 we probably are thinking anything goes. The late season push and playoff performance had us feeling we are pretty good the way we are. Let us hope hindsight will not hit us.

Agreed, but I've decided to be optimistic here. There is a very good potential upside.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed, but I've decided to be optimistic here. There is a very good potential upside.

Gluten did a great job in FA of making a good team better. If he has another draft even close to the last one, this team will be competing for SBs for a while. I sure didn't see that coming a year ago at this time.

 

[Dantés]

Here’s my read on the Jones situation. Not a defense per se, but how I understand the team’s logic.

I believe the team has seen Jones as a complement to the rushing attack rather than its foundation. Due to style, age, durability, and strengths, they want someone else to lead the team in carries and have Jones be the change of pace and a general weapon on offense. I believe this is what they were going for spending a round 2 pick on Dillon.

The reason, then, why they would ask him to take such a steep paycut would be so that they could afford to pay a veteran to be that foundation piece between the tackles. They clearly wanted a veteran for that role as the attempt draft it didn’t work. I believe this is the root of the rumors that they were in on Zack Moss. He was the target if Jones had stayed. The combined money on him and Jones would have been similar to the investment they’ve made in Jacobs.

Once Jones said he wouldn’t play ball (totally his prerogative), they decided to move on and put all the resources into a guy who can be the foundation of a rushing attack. That’s the big difference between Jones and Jacobs. Jacobs is 220 and does most of his work between the tackles. He’s 26 and is a lot more likely to be handle to handle 200+ carries.

It’s easier to draft rookies to complement him and there are more guys like that in this draft class.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I sure didn't see that coming a year ago at this time.

Not sure if you mean Jones being released or not? Either way, it reminded me of something I was thinking about yesterday.

Now I am just going from my limited memory, but 2-3 years ago, weren't we all talking about Jones not seeing the end of his contract? Most of us came to the decision that once the cap numbers got out of hand, he was gone. Last year might have been that year, but AJ took a pay cut and stayed. Maybe the difference between 2022 and 2023 was that last season, he came on at the end and had some great games, on pretty rested legs. That said, it wasn't until week 16 that Jones had a great game and went over 100 yds rushing. That was followed up by 5 more really solid efforts and as I said, on pretty fresh legs/body.

So yes, it sucks he is gone, but maybe people are overly focused on, as well as putting too much weight on, those final 6 games?

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[Heyjoe4]

Not sure if you mean Jones being released or not? Either way, it reminded me of something I was thinking about yesterday.

Now I am just going from my limited memory, but 2-3 years ago, weren't we all talking about Jones not seeing the end of his contract? Most of us came to the decision that once the cap numbers got out of hand, he was gone. Last year might have been that year, but AJ took a pay cut and stayed. Maybe the difference between 2022 and 2023 was that last season, he came on at the end and had some great games, on pretty rested legs. That said, it wasn't until week 16 that Jones had a great game and went over 100 yds rushing. That was followed up by 5 more really solid efforts and as I said, on pretty fresh legs/body.

So yes, it sucks he is gone, but maybe people are overly focused on, as well as putting too much weight on, those final 6 games?

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What I meant by "I sure didn't see that coming a year ago at this time." was the Packers being a SB contending team during after the 2023 season, as well as the ascendancy of Love. That comment didn't relate to Jones.

But back to Jones.

Your history of Jones is accurate and puts this all in a better light. With the cap limitations from Rodgers, Bakh, Alexander and maybe some others, it didn't seem likely the Packers could afford Jones. That was all before the "Great RB Devaluation" we've seen, and no one then would have been surprised by a bell cow RB getting $15 mil/year with $40 mil guaranteed.

My how things have changed. I for one didn't expect the big run on FA RBs that we've seen this week. But now it makes sense. Proven RBs with at least one big contract left became "affordable" at approx. $12/mil year. If anything, I was shocked that Philly guaranteed Barkley $26 mil while Jacobs guarantee came to $12 mil.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was shocked that Philly guaranteed Barkley $26 mil while Jacobs guarantee came to $12 mil.

Philly essentially gave him a two-year deal worth a bit over $24 million and will have the option to keep Barkley in 2026 if things really work out. But it will also give them an out to cut ties after the 2025 season when Barkley will be 29.

While I haven't looked at all the new contracts, I am hoping that guaranteed money is going down, but I doubt it. Has there ever been a contract that a players "guarantees his performance"? I guess the closest that anyone will come to that is one based mostly on incentive pay+ minimum league salary. I think there was a RB for the Saints that did that and came up short, Ricky Williams maybe?

 

[PikeBadger]

What I meant by "I sure didn't see that coming a year ago at this time." was the Packers being a SB contending team during after the 2023 season, as well as the ascendancy of Love. That comment didn't relate to Jones.

But back to Jones.

Your history of Jones is accurate and puts this all in a better light. With the cap limitations from Rodgers, Bakh, Alexander and maybe some others, it didn't seem likely the Packers could afford Jones. That was all before the "Great RB Devaluation" we've seen, and no one then would have been surprised by a bell cow RB getting $15 mil/year with $40 mil guaranteed.

My how things have changed. I for one didn't expect the big run on FA RBs that we've seen this week. But now it makes sense. Proven RBs with at least one big contract left became "affordable" at approx. $12/mil year. If anything, I was shocked that Philly guaranteed Barkley $26 mil while Jacobs guarantee came to $12 mil.

33% of total contract guaranteed is typical for a good player in Green Bay.

 

[Schultz]

Well yes and no. With gambling, you are choosing to go to those places on your own to engage in an activity of your choosing. Whereas an NFL player is an employee of business located in another state and is contracted to go work in other states.

Combine the 2 situations. You are a employed by Berlin Health in Green Bay on a $300K/year salary. They ask you if you want to go to Vegas on their nickel to attend a training seminar, you say "yes". One night you hit a casino and win some big money. You wont pay Nevada Taxes on the salary that you earned while in Vegas, but you will on your Casino winnings.

I wonder if a player travels to Vegas with the team, is on the active list, but doesn't see any snaps, does he still owe Nevada taxes? My guess is yes. Travels with the team, but is not activated on game day? No?

I am not talking about anyone employed by any business any where. I am talking about professional athletes.

 

[Schultz]

Not sure if you mean Jones being released or not? Either way, it reminded me of something I was thinking about yesterday.

Now I am just going from my limited memory, but 2-3 years ago, weren't we all talking about Jones not seeing the end of his contract? Most of us came to the decision that once the cap numbers got out of hand, he was gone. Last year might have been that year, but AJ took a pay cut and stayed. Maybe the difference between 2022 and 2023 was that last season, he came on at the end and had some great games, on pretty rested legs. That said, it wasn't until week 16 that Jones had a great game and went over 100 yds rushing. That was followed up by 5 more really solid efforts and as I said, on pretty fresh legs/body.

So yes, it sucks he is gone, but maybe people are overly focused on, as well as putting too much weight on, those final 6 games?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Only if you are talking about Aaron Rodgers.

 

[PikeBadger]

Looking at it through Jones' eyes, I can certainly understand it.

He's been one of the best RBs in franchise history (arguably better than Ahman Green), one of our most popular players, and one of the most beloved teammates on the squad. Last season, the team asked him to take a $5,000,000 paycut after turning in arguably the best season of his aging career, and he never complained a bit. He took the hit for the team. This year, he was the key to getting us into the playoffs and beating Dallas, and he's asked to take another pay cut of (reportedly) $6,000,000 - so that Green Bay can afford to hire his successor, and use the $6M pay that successor the salary that they had promised to pay Jones next season!

And he still didn't ***** about it. Apparently, he actually gave it serious consideration because he loves Green Bay, loves the team, and loves his teammates. I don't know about you, but if my employer had ever suggested that to me when I was working, I'd have had a really tough time with it. Evidently he decided that he just was not going to be a happy camper in the locker room under those circumstances, and he did the classy, professional thing and moved on.

And I'm not raggin' on Gute here. It was a coldblooded move, but this is a coldblooded business, and Gute did what he felt he had to do for the good of the team. I doubt very much that he felt the least bit "good" about it. But there's just no way around the fact that sometimes, people who have been loyal to the team are going to be hurt when the numbers catch up with them and they have to face the reality that your only real monetary value to the team is how much you can help them win this year.

Ya know, the more I think about it, I'm rather glad our GM is a cold blooded, fish-eyed sunny beach. And I mean that as the highest form of flattery.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am not talking about anyone employed by any business any where. I am talking about professional athletes.

Actually, you were comparing athletes wages to money that someone wins in Vegas. I guess you meant to say, they were unemployed or maybe they were professional athletes, there to play a sport and gamble?

BTW, NFL Players are professional athletes, but are employed by their team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Only if you are talking about Aaron Rodgers.

I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about Aaron Jones. What part confused you?

 

[Thirteen Below]

Ya know, the more I think about it, I'm rather glad our GM is a cold blooded, fish-eyed sunny beach. And I mean that as the highest form of flattery.

Yeah, I have to agree. And I'm a little surprised that we're just now seeing this side of him so clearly, after the way Rodgers seemed to be pulling his strings for a couple-few years there. During that period, I was really starting to think we had a weak GM, and it was discouraging.

But I'm starting to think a little differenty about it now... strating to wonder how frustrating it must have been for this guy to feel he had to hold back and bide his time rather than risk a showdown that might have blown up team chemistry and undermined his promising new coach.

I'm starting to suspect those were a friustrating couple of years for Gute, and admire him for keeping his eye on the ball, always putting the longterm interests of the team first, and sticking to (and trusting) his master plan.

Damn, I'll bet he was glad to finally see the door close behind Rodgers!

 

[OldSchool101]

That's fine. You have stated your position and your thoughts and reasons for your position. I will continue to do the same. They may have to re-send me the memo about only posting when I agree with the F/O and the cool guys on this message board because I did not get that memo yet.

I never said you have to agree with anyone and that goes for me or the Packers FO. I don’t agree with every decision the Packers FO makes and you are in here enough to know that.

Also who are these “cool guys” I’d like to be one of those I’m more like an outcast beyond the pale

 

[OldSchool101]

I posted a quoted article a page or two back with that in the quote.

All it did was add more taxes to the tax question!
From what I read though, the bulk of taxes do traditionally get paid in the State players work in. I guess that makes sense though, if the Company is licensed to do business in a particular State their Employees pay taxes in said State. Otherwise what benefit would it be for a particular State to attract businesses.
That Jock tax (in my interpretation) is a resolution to accommodate the various States (rightfully) arguing that a portion of the work was actually performed in their locale.
I can’t imagine paying Taxes in dozens of States but it’s clear on that article that does actually happen depending on the income type. The Jock tax is basically a form of a “delayed” Excise Tax, which are defined as taxes on goods, services or activities at time rendered. Kinda hard to grab the player to make them settle up before they jump back on a plane.

Needless to say, if you are an athlete you’d better have a Tax Advisor. It’s complicated even down to that $10,000 threshold on State taxes refund being Taxed by the Feds

 

[gopkrs]

I may be way off base but is a football game (as far as salary is concerned) more than just 1/7 of the work week? And 1/7 more if they spend the night? And if we play against Chicago; they have to pay taxes to Wisconsin and Illinois? Sounds strange.

 

[Heyjoe4]

33% of total contract guaranteed is typical for a good player in Green Bay.

Thanks I didn't know that was the percentage. It was good negotiating. If I understand it correctly the Packers can walk away in two years if he doesn't produce. And as far as the guaranteed money, it's one year's salary. I'm expecting he'll produce though. A solid back with at least another 3 to 4 solid years. Last year was an aberration and probably helped in negotiation.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I may be way off base but is a football game (as far as salary is concerned) more than just 1/7 of the work week? And 1/7 more if they spend the night? And if we play against Chicago; they have to pay taxes to Wisconsin and Illinois? Sounds strange.

Interesting. I guess they have to pay taxes in the state (country?) where the game is played. Must be a helluva tax return......

 

[longtimefan]

some states have reciprocity agreements to alleviate this … but not always… see my post above …

Worked in Illinois lived in Wisconsin. Didn't have to pay Illinois state tax