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Studs n duds Oakland

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Yet, Shepherd ranks near the bottom of the league with his 16.33/kick return average and dead last of players with 6 or more returns. Paint it anyway you want to, I haven't seen anything I like about the guy as far as kick/punt returns.
     
  2. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    I think...give the guy a break. He is very young. He probably is not the right man to return kick-offs but the blocking on kick-offs does not look very good either. I think he can be a good punt returner but he has to be more aware of where the tacklers are. And again, we don't seem to block the tacklers running downfield very well. I don't blame the dropped pass too much on him. He slipped at exactly the wrong time. I saw a lot of people slipping. Think we need to re-think our footwear at home. He just needs some confidence. He might get that from the line of scrimmage. He can get open. I'm glad the coaches are not getting down on him right now. At least, I hope they aren't.
     
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  3. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Young, talented, but raw. He has a great skill set but played against poor competition in college. Needs to adjust to the NFL. Take our lumps while he gets up to speed and let's see what happens.
     
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  4. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I see him being better at PR than KR. I think he has decent small space maneuverability needed to make some guys miss on PR, but he just doesn't look like much of a KR to me. guys seem to be able to target him up rather easily and when he's striding he doesn't cover much ground, he's not that fast and most of those first guys he has to make miss are in space, not in tight quarters where his quickness might help him.

    Good KR's are able to set up an opening, then cut to it and hit fast without breaking stride and that's not his style. IMO he should be replaced on KR's. I don't think that's his skillset
     
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  5. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Again, it seems like you're making this a bit of an either/or thing when it's more of a both/and. He's not a great returner and our blocking sucks.
     
  6. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I never said that it was all on Shepherd. Nor would I try to say with 100% surety that Shepherd alone is the problem. However, Tremon Smith returned 3 kicks and averaged 6 yards/kick more than Shepherd. Limited data, but combined with just watching Shepherd return kicks, makes my pretty certain that Shepherd is a big part of the problem.
     
  7. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Well that's s not our scheme. If OLBs are not supposed to tackle the QB, it's very possible kick returners are not supposed to get many yards.

    :)
     
  8. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Huh?
     
  9. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I'm not positive, but I don't believe teams were kicking to Smith the same way they are to Shepherd. A little context, of course, that's valuable.
     
  10. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    If you aren't positive, why say it? There is a reason teams are popping up kicks to Shepherd, they don't fear his abilities and want him to be forced to return a kick. If they weren't doing that to Smith, it means they respect him (and maybe the other 10 players blocking) and prefer just giving the ball to the Packers at the 25 by kicking the ball into or out of the endzone. The Packers have not started a drive at the 25 or better after one of Shepherd's returns and quite a few of them have resulted in starting behind their own 20.

    If the Packers continue to allow Shepherd to return kicks, I really hope he breaks a few past the 30. However, until he can start showing more than he has, I'm going to continue to say he is a Dud.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  11. LambeauLombardi

    LambeauLombardi Cheesehead

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    For those that mentioned Aaron Jones check this play out. Love this team's attention to detail.

     
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  12. LambeauLombardi

    LambeauLombardi Cheesehead

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  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The total number of tackles isn't a good indicator to evaluate the performance of an inside linebacker as it doesn't show any information about how many yards were gained before the play was made.

    While Martinez once again leads the league in tackles there's no doubt he has been average at best this season.
     
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  14. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Not to say who. But whoever said Aaron Jones can't catch the ball needs to realize that a few drops in the beginning do not equate to bad hands. There are many other factors to think about than just the catching the ball or no.
     
  15. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I'll lay claim to that, Jones was not really known as a good pass catching back when he came into the league. I still say he's not all that great with ball security in general. People tend to overlook a lot when it comes to him. He had one of the best catches i've ever seen a RB make last week and one of the worst drops the week before. His pass catching and blocking has definitely improved.

    But still, now many times does he lose the ball as he's going down and it pops right back? How many times has he lost it, but was on the sideline and it just went out of bounds. I'm not saying it happens every other time he touches the ball, but it happens more than people realize I think. Just because he's not losing fumbles left and right doesn't mean he is secure with the ball. and even earlier in the year, when he caught a ball, there was usually a little bobble before securing. Good thing he was wide open because contact from a defender turns that into an incomplete pass.
     
  16. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Don't think you are giving Jones the credit he deserves. btw...I wasn't thinking of you.
     
  17. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There's no doubt that Jones wasn't looking smooth catching the ball during his first two seasons with the team. He has definitely improved in that area this season.
     
  19. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    That's it. That's all you got. You put him down way before you ever knew.
     
  20. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    The two years Jones was healthy and starting in college, he caught 28 and 30 balls.

    The idea he wasn't good at catching the ball coming out of college is a fallacy.

    He's clearly improved, but he had the ability. MM just never used it.
     
  21. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    I don’t think you’re a Bully. But we can all act a little like that from time to time. Absolutely. I’m not even sure how I came across this searching for a thread days later,?but wanted to set that straight because the Lord obviously put it in my path again. I don’t think you’re a bully, no.
    I’m not just trying to appease you. If I thought that I’m not afraid to tell you the truth.

    I absolutely don’t think that people who disagree with me don’t know what they are talking about in some general fashion. I may however think that about a particular topic or if it doesn’t pass the sniff test or statistical data from time to time.

    These blanket or global statements are off. Your just being overly sensitive on that topic of disagreement for whatever reason. Ive agreed with you on far more topics in here, but I understand lots of posters, we also seem to remember the disagreements more readily than the agreed. Not sure why were built that way. Peace Packer Brother.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
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  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Once again, Jones didn't excel at catching the ball during his first two seasons with the Packers. Anyone denying that wasn't paying attention.

    There's no doubt he has significantly improved in that area this year.

    It seems you solely like to cite college stats as long as the NFL tape doesn't fit your narrative. Jones struggling catching the ball his first two seasons with the Packers, him having two receptions per game at UTEP doesn't change anything about it.
     
  23. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    And there is absolutely no doubt that you were unequivocally wrong. I could see he would be able to catch the ball. It is called talent evaluation. But you were so sure. Positive even. And you were dead wrong. Sometimes players need a bit of a break before making statements about them. Yes, you are entitled to opinions. But I am not sure you understand that is what they are. I don't think you are even right about him improving. It was always there. Circumstances led to him dropping a couple or not making an extraordinary catch. But I don't think he has changed in that regard. He always could catch the ball.
     
  24. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    And there is absolutely no doubt that you were unequivocally wrong. I could see he would be able to catch the ball. It is called talent evaluation. But you were so sure. Positive even. And you were dead wrong. Sometimes players need a bit of a break before making statements about them. Yes, you are entitled to opinions. But I am not sure you understand that is what they are. I don't think you are even right about him improving. It was always there. Circumstances led to him dropping a couple or not making an extraordinary catch. But I don't think he has changed in that regard. He always could catch the ball.
     
  25. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    well if that's the criteria, I can catch the ball too...

    anyway, considering talent evaluation, there were plenty of other guys that caught the ball more cleanly than Jones when he entered the league, and it was fairly obvious. He's gotten better.
     
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