Studs n duds Oakland

[gopkrs]

I think...give the guy a break. He is very young. He probably is not the right man to return kick-offs but the blocking on kick-offs does not look very good either. I think he can be a good punt returner but he has to be more aware of where the tacklers are. And again, we don't seem to block the tacklers running downfield very well. I don't blame the dropped pass too much on him. He slipped at exactly the wrong time. I saw a lot of people slipping. Think we need to re-think our footwear at home. He just needs some confidence. He might get that from the line of scrimmage. He can get open. I'm glad the coaches are not getting down on him right now. At least, I hope they aren't.

 

[AmishMafia]

I think...give the guy a break. He is very young. He probably is not the right man to return kick-offs but the blocking on kick-offs does not look very good either. I think he can be a good punt returner but he has to be more aware of where the tacklers are. And again, we don't seem to block the tacklers running downfield very well. I don't blame the dropped pass too much on him. He slipped at exactly the wrong time. I saw a lot of people slipping. Think we need to re-think our footwear at home. He just needs some confidence. He might get that from the line of scrimmage. He can get open. I'm glad the coaches are not getting down on him right now. At least, I hope they aren't.

Young, talented, but raw. He has a great skill set but played against poor competition in college. Needs to adjust to the NFL. Take our lumps while he gets up to speed and let's see what happens.

 

[Mondio]

Young, talented, but raw. He has a great skill set but played against poor competition in college. Needs to adjust to the NFL. Take our lumps while he gets up to speed and let's see what happens.

I see him being better at PR than KR. I think he has decent small space maneuverability needed to make some guys miss on PR, but he just doesn't look like much of a KR to me. guys seem to be able to target him up rather easily and when he's striding he doesn't cover much ground, he's not that fast and most of those first guys he has to make miss are in space, not in tight quarters where his quickness might help him.

Good KR's are able to set up an opening, then cut to it and hit fast without breaking stride and that's not his style. IMO he should be replaced on KR's. I don't think that's his skillset

 

[GleefulGary]

Yet, Shepherd ranks near the bottom of the league with his 16.33/kick return average and dead last of players with 6 or more returns. Paint it anyway you want to, I haven't seen anything I like about the guy as far as kick/punt returns.

Again, it seems like you're making this a bit of an either/or thing when it's more of a both/and. He's not a great returner and our blocking sucks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Again, it seems like you're making this a bit of an either/or thing when it's more of a both/and. He's not a great returner and our blocking sucks.

I never said that it was all on Shepherd. Nor would I try to say with 100% surety that Shepherd alone is the problem. However, Tremon Smith returned 3 kicks and averaged 6 yards/kick more than Shepherd. Limited data, but combined with just watching Shepherd return kicks, makes my pretty certain that Shepherd is a big part of the problem.

 

[AmishMafia]

Again, it seems like you're making this a bit of an either/or thing when it's more of a both/and. He's not a great returner and our blocking sucks.

Well that's s not our scheme. If OLBs are not supposed to tackle the QB, it's very possible kick returners are not supposed to get many yards.

 

[GleefulGary]

Well that's s not our scheme. If OLBs are not supposed to tackle the QB, it's very possible kick returners are not supposed to get many yards.

Huh?

 

[GleefulGary]

I never said that it was all on Shepherd. Nor would I try to say with 100% surety that Shepherd alone is the problem. However, Tremon Smith returned 3 kicks and averaged 6 yards/kick more than Shepherd. Limited data, but combined with just watching Shepherd return kicks, makes my pretty certain that Shepherd is a big part of the problem.

I'm not positive, but I don't believe teams were kicking to Smith the same way they are to Shepherd. A little context, of course, that's valuable.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not positive, but I don't believe teams were kicking to Smith the same way they are to Shepherd. A little context, of course, that's valuable.

If you aren't positive, why say it? There is a reason teams are popping up kicks to Shepherd, they don't fear his abilities and want him to be forced to return a kick. If they weren't doing that to Smith, it means they respect him (and maybe the other 10 players blocking) and prefer just giving the ball to the Packers at the 25 by kicking the ball into or out of the endzone. The Packers have not started a drive at the 25 or better after one of Shepherd's returns and quite a few of them have resulted in starting behind their own 20.

If the Packers continue to allow Shepherd to return kicks, I really hope he breaks a few past the 30. However, until he can start showing more than he has, I'm going to continue to say he is a Dud.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

For those that mentioned Aaron Jones check this play out. Love this team's attention to detail.

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[LambeauLombardi]

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[Deleted member 6794]

Right. Neither do FF, INT, PD, Sacks, etc.. they keep track of it just for fun.

The 2018 top group of top tacklers all suck. They suck from start to finish, they should all be fired immediately.
Darius Leonard, Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Leighton Vander Esch. Anthony Hitchens, Telvin Smith, Luke Kuechly.. what a bunch of misfits.

The 2019 group.. they are even worse! Blake Martinez (48 Solo!) He’s got more solo than Han from Star Wars! Just forget about his FF and his Sack too, that’s just luck.

Jordan Hicks (39!) Erick Kendricks (44) Landon Collins (41) , what a bunch of half breeds!!! Absolutely no pedigree there!
These guys are all imposters

Looking at this list for 3 years. I don’t see one player that’s as bad as what this little forum group is making them. I’m just going to say call a spade a spade and say you guys don’t know what your talking about. It’s like mob mentality. But it’s not aligning with the numbers.

let’s rename the thread.

. “Witch-hunt”

I’m stepping up for Blake your honor. He’s a good dude... and he can toss an egg like you ain’t ever seen!

The total number of tackles isn't a good indicator to evaluate the performance of an inside linebacker as it doesn't show any information about how many yards were gained before the play was made.

While Martinez once again leads the league in tackles there's no doubt he has been average at best this season.

 

[gopkrs]

Not to say who. But whoever said Aaron Jones can't catch the ball needs to realize that a few drops in the beginning do not equate to bad hands. There are many other factors to think about than just the catching the ball or no.

 

[Mondio]

Not to say who. But whoever said Aaron Jones can't catch the ball needs to realize that a few drops in the beginning do not equate to bad hands. There are many other factors to think about than just the catching the ball or no.

I'll lay claim to that, Jones was not really known as a good pass catching back when he came into the league. I still say he's not all that great with ball security in general. People tend to overlook a lot when it comes to him. He had one of the best catches i've ever seen a RB make last week and one of the worst drops the week before. His pass catching and blocking has definitely improved.

But still, now many times does he lose the ball as he's going down and it pops right back? How many times has he lost it, but was on the sideline and it just went out of bounds. I'm not saying it happens every other time he touches the ball, but it happens more than people realize I think. Just because he's not losing fumbles left and right doesn't mean he is secure with the ball. and even earlier in the year, when he caught a ball, there was usually a little bobble before securing. Good thing he was wide open because contact from a defender turns that into an incomplete pass.

 

[gopkrs]

I'll lay claim to that, Jones was not really known as a good pass catching back when he came into the league. I still say he's not all that great with ball security in general. People tend to overlook a lot when it comes to him. He had one of the best catches i've ever seen a RB make last week and one of the worst drops the week before. His pass catching and blocking has definitely improved.

But still, now many times does he lose the ball as he's going down and it pops right back? How many times has he lost it, but was on the sideline and it just went out of bounds. I'm not saying it happens every other time he touches the ball, but it happens more than people realize I think. Just because he's not losing fumbles left and right doesn't mean he is secure with the ball. and even earlier in the year, when he caught a ball, there was usually a little bobble before securing. Good thing he was wide open because contact from a defender turns that into an incomplete pass.

Don't think you are giving Jones the credit he deserves. btw...I wasn't thinking of you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not to say who. But whoever said Aaron Jones can't catch the ball needs to realize that a few drops in the beginning do not equate to bad hands. There are many other factors to think about than just the catching the ball or no.

There's no doubt that Jones wasn't looking smooth catching the ball during his first two seasons with the team. He has definitely improved in that area this season.

 

[gopkrs]

There's no doubt that Jones wasn't looking smooth catching the ball during his first two seasons with the team. He has definitely improved in that area this season.

That's it. That's all you got. You put him down way before you ever knew.

 

[GleefulGary]

The two years Jones was healthy and starting in college, he caught 28 and 30 balls.

The idea he wasn't good at catching the ball coming out of college is a fallacy.

He's clearly improved, but he had the ability. MM just never used it.

 

[OldSchool101]

You straight up said that people who don't agree with you don't know what they're talking about. And you think I'm a bully?

I don’t think you’re a Bully. But we can all act a little like that from time to time. Absolutely. I’m not even sure how I came across this searching for a thread days later,?but wanted to set that straight because the Lord obviously put it in my path again. I don’t think you’re a bully, no.
I’m not just trying to appease you. If I thought that I’m not afraid to tell you the truth.

I absolutely don’t think that people who disagree with me don’t know what they are talking about in some general fashion. I may however think that about a particular topic or if it doesn’t pass the sniff test or statistical data from time to time.

These blanket or global statements are off. Your just being overly sensitive on that topic of disagreement for whatever reason. Ive agreed with you on far more topics in here, but I understand lots of posters, we also seem to remember the disagreements more readily than the agreed. Not sure why were built that way. Peace Packer Brother.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's it. That's all you got. You put him down way before you ever knew.

Once again, Jones didn't excel at catching the ball during his first two seasons with the Packers. Anyone denying that wasn't paying attention.

There's no doubt he has significantly improved in that area this year.

The two years Jones was healthy and starting in college, he caught 28 and 30 balls.

The idea he wasn't good at catching the ball coming out of college is a fallacy.

He's clearly improved, but he had the ability. MM just never used it.

It seems you solely like to cite college stats as long as the NFL tape doesn't fit your narrative. Jones struggling catching the ball his first two seasons with the Packers, him having two receptions per game at UTEP doesn't change anything about it.

 

[gopkrs]

Once again, Jones didn't excel at catching the ball during his first two seasons with the Packers. Anyone denying that wasn't paying attention.

There's no doubt he has significantly improved in that area this year.



It seems you solely like to cite college stats as long as the NFL tape doesn't fit your narrative. Jones struggling catching the ball his first two seasons with the Packers, him having two receptions per game at UTEP doesn't change anything about it.

And there is absolutely no doubt that you were unequivocally wrong. I could see he would be able to catch the ball. It is called talent evaluation. But you were so sure. Positive even. And you were dead wrong. Sometimes players need a bit of a break before making statements about them. Yes, you are entitled to opinions. But I am not sure you understand that is what they are. I don't think you are even right about him improving. It was always there. Circumstances led to him dropping a couple or not making an extraordinary catch. But I don't think he has changed in that regard. He always could catch the ball.

 

[gopkrs]

Once again, Jones didn't excel at catching the ball during his first two seasons with the Packers. Anyone denying that wasn't paying attention.

There's no doubt he has significantly improved in that area this year.



It seems you solely like to cite college stats as long as the NFL tape doesn't fit your narrative. Jones struggling catching the ball his first two seasons with the Packers, him having two receptions per game at UTEP doesn't change anything about it.

And there is absolutely no doubt that you were unequivocally wrong. I could see he would be able to catch the ball. It is called talent evaluation. But you were so sure. Positive even. And you were dead wrong. Sometimes players need a bit of a break before making statements about them. Yes, you are entitled to opinions. But I am not sure you understand that is what they are. I don't think you are even right about him improving. It was always there. Circumstances led to him dropping a couple or not making an extraordinary catch. But I don't think he has changed in that regard. He always could catch the ball.

 

[Mondio]

well if that's the criteria, I can catch the ball too...

anyway, considering talent evaluation, there were plenty of other guys that caught the ball more cleanly than Jones when he entered the league, and it was fairly obvious. He's gotten better.

 

[GleefulGary]

Jones was considered a good pass catching back coming into the NFL.

While he has improved, he never struggled. I'd like to see video evidence of that. Wimm, show me the tape. Not the pff stats, I want the tape.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And there is absolutely no doubt that you were unequivocally wrong. I could see he would be able to catch the ball. It is called talent evaluation. But you were so sure. Positive even. And you were dead wrong. Sometimes players need a bit of a break before making statements about them. Yes, you are entitled to opinions. But I am not sure you understand that is what they are. I don't think you are even right about him improving. It was always there. Circumstances led to him dropping a couple or not making an extraordinary catch. But I don't think he has changed in that regard. He always could catch the ball.

Most running backs coming out of college have the talent to catch the ball. It's a different thing doing it in real games at full speed in the NFL though.

Jones wasn't able to consistently make a play in the passing game during his first two seasons with the Packers. Fortunately it's pretty obvious he has improved in that area this season.

As a side note, I think it's hilarious when posters around here brag about being great talent evaluators because they claim having been correct about something while using hindsight. All that while 32 teams decided 18 running backs should be selected earlier that draft.

Let me be clear about it, I'm well aware that I don't have the knowledge to scout college or NFL players properly. Neither do you. The difference being that you don't realize that.

Lastly, I'm happy that I was wrong about Jones as a receiver as the Packers hugely benefit from him excelling as a pass catcher as well.

Jones was considered a good pass catching back coming into the NFL.

While he has improved, he never struggled. I'd like to see video evidence of that. Wimm, show me the tape. Not the pff stats, I want the tape.

Here's a terrible drop from Jones just two weeks ago:

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I'm not interested in searching for any other examples from 2017 and '18. If you watched the games you know Jones struggled catching balls in his first two years with the team.