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Studs n duds Oakland

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. DarkHelmet

    DarkHelmet Cheesehead

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    Studs:

    Rodgers, obviously. Accuracy and decision-making were excellent. I think the new scheme is part of it, but I also think being healthy makes a huge difference. He just hasn't been physically right the last two years. Now he looks like he's basically back to pre-second-collar-bone form.

    Lafleur, Hackett. Excellent game plan on offense.

    All of the offense. Everybody contributed.

    Duds:

    Martinez. He's had some great games. This wasn't one of them. Out of position, slow, hesitant and just a liability. Obviously, we don't have anybody better or they'd be playing. If he's playing hurt we can hope things will improve. Otherwise the scheme has to be adjusted to minimize his limitations until such time as he improves or we can acquire an upgrade.

    Pass defense in general. There were way too many blown assignments. Hard to know who blew it on any given play, but it was a freakin' mess several times. Carr is accurate and Waller appears to be the real deal, but even so, guys should not be that open. There were a couple of catches where the nearest defender had to be a minimum 15 yards away. Can't let that happen, especially multiple times. Getting Savage back will help.

    Auxiliary dud: Lions for not knocking off the Vikings in Detroit. With the Bears looking abysmal on offense, the Vikes are shaping up to be our main competitor for the division. Would have been nice for Detroit to take care of business at home.

    Great win, overall.
     
  2. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    This will actually shock you that I gave you an agree.
    I don’t know if it was a slip up, but you said “linebacker” singular. Nothing further from the truth. We have 1 decent LB in the middle and 1 other newbie used as a plug. we need at least 2 decent LinebackerS. Maybe 3. In particular we need a formidable LB in coverage that is also good at shedding blocks and attacking downhill on running plays.
     
  3. Ceodore

    Ceodore Cheesehead

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    Didn't see the game but was surprised to see so many people calling Martinez a dud because about 30 seconds before coming to this thread I saw a post by the Packers on FB saying how he had a career high 16 tackles and currently leads the league in tackles. In fact seeing the post made me think to come over here. "Oh, Martinez must have had a good game, let's go see the studs and duds." lol.

    What's the disconnect?
     
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  4. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    He isn't as proactive out there as most would like. Should be aggressively shooting his gap, but often let's the play come to him. Although he is getting the tackle, the RB is picking up 7 yards in the process. He makes plays occasionally, so I'm not giving up on him. He can do it, he just needs to do it much more often.
     
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  5. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    besides shoving a QB out of bounds, do you remember a single play he made yesterday? 13 forgettable tackles. I remember a few whiffs that's for sure. Whiffs shouldn't outnumber memorable plays. I'm floored they have 13 tackles attached to his name because I don't remember him doing anything besides chasing down a QB 1 play and a tackle on a pass play.
     
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  6. DarkHelmet

    DarkHelmet Cheesehead

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    It's a paradox. Yes, I saw that he leads the NFL in tackles. I can only say by eye test yesterday some of the big gains correlated with Martinez looking like he was out of position or too slow to the play. Maybe others were blowing their assignments. Hard to tell.
     
  7. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    That volume tackle numbers don't mean anything.
     
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  8. Scotland Yard

    Scotland Yard What the hell is going on around here!

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    Suggested cutting Shepherd last week, got slapped down in these forums as overreacting (or the lame excuse we don't have an adequate replacement).

    Shepherd fields KO's at the 3 yardline and runs straight ahead into the thickest traffic at the 17. No vision, speed or wiggle at all.

    How can anyone not related to Shepherd defend the stats you listed above?

    I just don't get it. This guy is not NFL material right now...he's still N. Dakota St. level.

    Long past time to cut him. We do have Tremon Smith on the PS right? Or there are others on the street with more talent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  9. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    Watched that play about 5 times just now. MVS had clearly begun throttling down.
     
  10. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    Right. Neither do FF, INT, PD, Sacks, etc.. they keep track of it just for fun.

    The 2018 top group of top tacklers all suck. They suck from start to finish, they should all be fired immediately.
    Darius Leonard, Blake Martinez, Bobby Wagner, Leighton Vander Esch. Anthony Hitchens, Telvin Smith, Luke Kuechly.. what a bunch of misfits. :roflmao:

    The 2019 group.. they are even worse! Blake Martinez (48 Solo!) He’s got more solo than Han from Star Wars! Just forget about his FF and his Sack too, that’s just luck.

    Jordan Hicks (39!) Erick Kendricks (44) Landon Collins (41) , what a bunch of half breeds!!! Absolutely no pedigree there!
    These guys are all imposters :whistling:

    Looking at this list for 3 years. I don’t see one player that’s as bad as what this little forum group is making them. I’m just going to say call a spade a spade and say you guys don’t know what your talking about. It’s like mob mentality. But it’s not aligning with the numbers.

    let’s rename the thread.

    . “Witch-hunt”

    I’m stepping up for Blake your honor. He’s a good dude... and he can toss an egg like you ain’t ever seen!:tup:
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  11. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I was up north and missed the game, but did see this play on the highlights. I re-wound the play several times to figure out it was Aaron Jones that put a nasty block downfield. THAT is the kind of stuff that makes big plays and wins championships. WRs and RBs need to block for one another. It's no one-man show in the NFL unless your name is Barry Sanders.
     
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  12. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I didn't say tackle volume is a bad thing. It just doesn't necessarily indicate good play. Hence why you find both great and lousy players with high tackle volume.

    But you got one thing right-- this is just a little forum group. It's just random fans, talking about the team and how they see things. So it's funny that you're so bent out of shape that some people don't see a player the same way you do. You're a little old to be this thin-skinned.
     
  13. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    :tup::tup:
    I’m not bent out of shape at all. Otherwise I’d be talking in all CAPS! You just don’t like it when people disagree with you is what I’m seeing.

    If you knew me you wouldn’t think that at all. It probably comes across that way because I’m passionate about guys or gals who I think are being unfairly treated. Ironically? I’d defend you if I thought you were being bullied.
    Some of you guys are like Pharisees... all pride but no compassion. I think it’s partly because no one has held you to account.. maybe that’s what I’m here for? ;) praise you Lord.

    Nothing personal to me at all. btw. I’ve been around the block long enough (more than 1/2 century) to spot a forum bully at work (or small group) and I can assure you age has little to do with it. They come in all shapes and size.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  14. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    You're saying that people who aren't impressed with Martinez are a "mob" of "impostors" engaged in a "witch hunt." You straight up said that people who don't agree with you don't know what they're talking about. And you think I'm a bully?
     
  15. LambeauLombardi

    LambeauLombardi Cheesehead

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    No question these are scary teams, but when you look at not only the qbs we play for the rest of 2019 but the qbs in the entire league, it isn't as good as it has been in years past due to injuries/Luck retiring. I think that bodes well for our defense.

    Also hate Minny's new dome, time to finally win there.
     
  16. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Yes, the Packers resigned Tremon to the PS last week (10/16) and it wouldn't surprise me to see him elevated to the 53, Shepherd cut and maybe put on the PS. You obviously know, I would support this decision. ;)

    Next man up, the one given the job hasn't shown me a thing.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...mith-comes-up-CLUTCH-with-97-yard-kick-return
     
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    A KO returner does not, cannot let the ball bounce shy of the goal line. If it stays in the field of play nothing good comes of it. It's a free ball that could result in the opponent deep in your territory or your end zone. If you cover it in the field of play you have terrible field positions. I don't think Shepherd has brought one out of the end zone. If he has it would have been borderline 1 yard deep.

    It appears Denver and Oakland were kicking short on purpose. I'm seeing other teams appearing to do the same. Not a bad idea given the state of kick return blocking in the NFL. You could also get a bonus 10 yards on an illegal block some percentage of the time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  18. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Raiders quarterbacks completed 24 passes yesterday-- 16 were to backs and tight ends.

    The Raiders' passing game went for 329 yards-- 199 of it to backs and tight ends.

    The Raiders threw three touchdowns-- all to tight ends.
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Can you show replays of him. suckling?

    any possibility he is told to do the things you think he shouldn't be doing?

    It's odd that 2 years or 3 years he is at top...that is a big trend...

    Why is it a trend? When was the last time a lb for the packers were top 3 in tackles? Not a rhetorical question..I truly want YOU to look it up
     
  20. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Sorry, I have no interest in looking up volume tackle stats. If you have interest, feel free to look it up.

    I have most every game recorded, so yeah I have replays of him not playing well. I don't have them in a format that I can easily share in the forum.

    If you're interested, I would suggest you watch games with an eye towards what happens when a blocker gets to him and when he's in man coverage. Just track that and see what you think.

    It's a certainty that Martinez is being coached to play in ways that I am unaware of... probably in ways that I have very little concept of. But it is also a certainty that he is not being coached to be ineffective in man coverage and in his take on ability.

    The reason Martinez has a ton of tackles is that he plays behind a good defensive line that keeps him clean and most plays are funnelled towards him. It is also because he is good in that role and I make no denial of that.

    My gripe, as I've now said maybe dozens of times, is simply this: he can't cover and he can't deal with blocks. And because he can do neither, he forces the defense to be imbalanced towards run or pass. Play a stronger run defender next to him to allow his his take on skills, and you get burned through the air. Play a stronger cover option next to him to allow for his cover issues, and you get burned on the ground.
     
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  21. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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  22. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Dud: Rodgers for completing the deep ball to MVS on the opening play of the second half. He had Graham wide open on a 10 yard crosser. Hey, if you're going to knock him when it doesn't work then you gotta knock when it does. ;)
     
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  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That sums it up pretty well. It comes down to read and react. Sometimes he's on the spot, a lot of times not. No 240 lb. ILB is going to get off a second level lineman block standing flatfooted eyeing where the play might go. That's where you get those slides off the block mopping up downfield a la the aging Hawk. A good read gets off those blocks by being on the move to the play where the big man can only get a glancing hit on him. Same thing in coverage, late in his read of the where the ball is going.

    I wouldn't be so sure Goodson/Greene or Campbell wouldn't do a better job than Martinez/Green or Campbell.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Waller for 126 yds. and 2 TDs was the story. The rest not so much especially considering they had 2 TEs on the field on most snaps. The RBs didn't do much in the passing game.

    That does not include the 28 yd. TD to a wide open Waller that was called back for holding. That was on 3-man rush. Martinez blew that coverage in my estimation. He was out wide on Jacobs and followed him into the middle where 3 other defenders were already working, leaving his zone as Waller was coming up into his face and went by into wide open spaces.

    Waller goes for 48 splitting the safties. Amos has his arm out signalling for Redmond to take him, but Redmond was too shallow.

    At 28-10, they played a lot of zone on the next Oakland possession and Carr short pass metriculated down the field to get back in the game. In general, the zone coverages are pretty shabby when Pettine gets conservative with a lead, as in the Dallas game.
     
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