So you guys/gals aren't happy?

FarmerPackerFan

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I'm happy, I got to see two entertaining games that both went down to the wire that we squeaked out wins in. This team has been mostly rebuilt over the past two seasons between new coaches and players. It will take time for the offense to be consistent, but the defense is fun to watch.
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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I'm happy. But it seems that the majority of people here aren't happy unless we put up 42 points a game. Let's remember that Peyton Manning owes his 2nd ring to Von Miller more than he does his own exploits. This could be a similar storyline with Rodgers. After so many years we finally have a defense that can win and close out games for us. I hope Gute keeps a steady hand and allows the offense to mature in this new system as I think we have a strong chance of being 5-3 or better before the trade deadline.


I'm angry directly at 12. YES I'll tell you all day long LaFleur held him out of 2 pre-season games...but Aaron decided all on his own not to play with a tight back...trust me you can play 2 series with a tight back. If he plays at all pre-season he has live round experience in this tweaked offense, and the offense runs better. We're 2-0 DESPITE our MVP Superbowl winning future Hall of Fame QB
 

GreenNGold_81

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I'm angry directly at 12. YES I'll tell you all day long LaFleur held him out of 2 pre-season games...but Aaron decided all on his own not to play with a tight back...trust me you can play 2 series with a tight back. If he plays at all pre-season he has live round experience in this tweaked offense, and the offense runs better. We're 2-0 DESPITE our MVP Superbowl winning future Hall of Fame QB

Take it easy. If Rodgers plays in preseason he gets MAYBE a couple series the first game and MAYBE a few more the next game. It's doubtful he'd play more than two games anyway. He's had a couple games now under his belt (that the team WON against high calibre defenses) and our offense still isn't where it needs to be. I highly doubt those extra few series would have ironed out the product we have on the field right now on offense. The issues are bigger than that.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Did you happen to catch any of the games since 2011? Just curious.

Giants? No, they didn't have a defense...
Baltimore? Same.
Seattle? Nope.
New England? Hell no.
Denver? Nada
New England? Again, hell no.
Philly? Nope.
New England? Couldn't have. No.

See here's your problem, I never said none of those teams had no defense, you're just putting those words in my mouth because you're anti offense and a shootout Superbowl denier. Most of those Superbowls either

I'll go back a little further and say go back to the 1990s, most of those Superbowls were dominated by elite QBs like Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Brett Favre (even though Des Howard was MVP), John Elway, and Kurt Warner.

Then throw in offenses that tore through defenses with big time players like Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Ricky Watters, Antonio Freeman, Terell Davis, Ed McCaffrey, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce ... You get the picture


All of those teams had great defenses, but so did their opponents. In fact the NFL in general did, but those with the elite offenses always came out on top

Now.... Fast forward to those Superbowls you mentioned ...

2011 Giants over Pats, pretty balanced game overall. Giants D did pretty well, but most of the key plays like that 3rd and long diving catch were determined by the offense

2012 Ravens over 49ers, offense dominated this game easily. 34-31 is a big shootout. Ravens have just traditionally been known as a defense team, but there's a reason why that unit never won more Superbowls with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed because that offense wasn't good enough until this year when they averaged 31 ppg in the playoff run and scored 34 in that Superbowl.

2013 Seahawks over Broncos - I'll give you that one, the better defense did win over the better offense in this one

2014 Pats over Seahawks - Another offensive shootout. Granted a defensive play an interception did save the day for the Patriots. But then again the media's story was that it was a bad play call and Seattle should have run it. So ... Look at it how you will, but I still say offense doing most of the work put the Pats in that position with one, just one defensive play at the end.

2015 - Broncos over Panthers - This one yes, it was a true defensive show

2016 - Patriots over Falcons - I would say anything but defense in this game. In fact, I'd call it a defensive embarrassment. Other than maybe the sack on Matt Ryan to take Atlanta out of FG range, a game with a 34-28 score and decided by an OT coin toss and offensive TD drive sure as hell ain't no defensive winning game.

2017 Eagles over Pats, um yeah umm 43-35 .... That's a shootout all the way. The Eagles relied far more on their offense to get this win than the defense. Going for it on 4th down, pulling out the trick play, Pederson put that game in his offense's hands to win it, not the defense's.

2018 Patriots over Rams, yes a defensive game all the way. Course I'd say very much an anomaly in terms of it being the lowest scoring in NFL, and I have my own opinions on what caused that, but I digress. Defensive game.


So yeah I'd say about 3 of those 8 games, maybe 4 if you want to throw the 2011 Giants in there could be considered games where the defense did the talking, but the rest definitely had the league's leading offenses running it up out there.

Bottom line, even for teams who have had pretty good defenses winning Superbowls, it cannot be denied most of them had league dominating offenses rolling them there. Out of all the dominant defenses that have won Superbowls over say the last 20 years, how many have had half baked offenses on the other side?

2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos probably fit the bill for truly needing the defenses to carry all the weight. Then perhaps the 2007 Giants and 2013 Seahawks might fit the next tier with not great but offenses a little above those bottom 3. Bottom line is you can count on all those teams on one hand among a sea of elite offenses.

Then you got a few teams who had the league's leading defenses who failed when meeting the unstoppable force on the other side like the 1999 Titans, 2004 Steelers, 2006 Bears, 2009 Jets, 2010 Steelers, and 2017 Vikings

So while having a defense is important, history shows I'd say at least 75℅ of the time they got an elite offensive unit on the other side when they win the Superbowl.
 

XPack

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WRONG AGAIN, except of course when dealing with knuckle heads who stick words in people's mouths
Really? Shaggy had a simple question, Happy or Not and people were responding.

And the. You came with 2 huge posts on why we should be cautious and not stop criticizing the team. "Fan base says we're heading in right direction" is not really a a declaration on your views.

Are you happy or not? Make a stance and stick with it. Stop the irrelevant ramblings.
 

rmontro

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I'm thrilled the Packers are 2-0. I kind of feel like we have to be winning these games though, because we have a lot of home games early, and we need to take advantage of them. Also happy the defense has been playing so well.

But the goal isn't merely to be 2-0, we have to get through the rest of the season. Don't want the balloon to pop, and Rodgers can always get hurt. There's a long way to go, and that's not even talking about playoff success.

Also, the offense has been a concern for several years now. As of this point, you can't really say it's fixed. In fact, it may not really be addressed until next year. I know we've been playing some stout defenses, but if we make it into the playoffs, we'll be facing the best defenses then too. It doesn't do much good to have a great offense but then when you're up against a decent defense you can't move the ball.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Really? Shaggy had a simple question, Happy or Not and people were responding.

And the. You came with 2 huge posts on why we should be cautious and not stop criticizing the team. "Fan base says we're heading in right direction" is not really a a declaration on your views.

Are you happy or not? Make a stance and stick with it. Stop the irrelevant ramblings.

Yes it is. PERIOD! END OF STORY!!
 

longtimefan

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Well to longtime’s point if we were 0-2 the sky WOULD be falling.

We’ve won two TOUGH games, one on the road, both division opponents elevating us and pushing them down. The D is playing very well, although I don’t really feel these were BIG tests for them. We’ve done all that with a very below average offensive performance. That last part has GOT to change or all of the above is for naught.

It’s time for Rodgers to start playing up to his press clippings, something he hasn’t done consistently in 3-4 years...imo
(Yes there are reasons for those who like excuses rather than results)

I think we have a lot of opportunity... do we have a D as good as it looks?

Do we have the horses on offense? (If we don’t... that’s inexcuseable )

Will Rodgers step up?

I don’t think identifying these questions is negative

Sorry forgot this.

We could be 2 and 0 by missing 2 fg..

Sky wouldn't be falling.

I'll take a 14 and 2 season.

They could end up being 2 and 14
 

weeds

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2-0 is better than 1-1 and 0-2. I'll take it but it can't make me happy or unhappy.

It's a spectator sport. It's not like I could still play.
 
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The fan base does agree the overall direction is going mostly good, but that doesn't mean all criticisms must stop. For example:

LaFleur: So far I think the players are buying into what he's doing. He and Rodgers appear to be working great together despite what fake news analysts and their cult followers like @gbgary say. But that doesn't mean he's above criticism for game/clock management and bad challenges. He can and I believe will improve there, but until he does the shoutbox will still have people complaining about it.

Gute: his pros are that he'll tap into free agent and trade deals in talent acquisition. He also is so far sending a message to some of Ted's raddy picks that he's not going to allow them to stink out there without consequences, another big plus. I'm just not crazy about his draft strategy because I think he's got it backward. He needs to be drafting under the philosophy that the best defense is the best offense because Superbowl history has proven this.
That’s not true from this standpoint... when you examine all SB WINNING teams (after all, that’s the end goal isn’t it?) The average D is ranked Lower (about 7th) than the the average Offense (about 8th)
That does not convince me that a better Offense wins over a better Defense.
Now, granted this a 5 decade average mean, there are fluctuations year to year. But winning is goal #1 and 50 seasons is a nice sample size. We look to the most successful to see what was the ingredient.
Defense trumps Offense, but it’s very, very close.
Well rounded teams Win Championships.

This year, we likely have a top 6 Defense but that’s just a hypothesis (we will know better by week 8) It’s my opinion we need a top 11ish Offensive scoring unit to give us a realistic shot. The better the ratings, the better the chances.

Your added D+O rankings should be around 15ish. Anything lower increases the odds of winning exponentially and vice versa. The exception is #1 on either, because a team could be #1 because they are 5Pts/GM better than the next team (such as an absolute monster D giving up just 10 pts a game) etc.. that opens the parameters on the opposite end a bit. They could have an adequate chance of winning with a #18 ranked O etc..

In 2014, I guessed the GBP would need a defense ranked top 1/3 to win it all (top 11) We lowered our D ranking from mid season from like 20th to 13th (moves CM3 inside and brought out Perry) That’s huge. We lost in OT in the NFC game as close as it gets to a team that went toe to toe in the SB. Coincidence? Not a chance
We took a hit on 17 in blackjack once too many times.
 
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lambeaulambo

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i'm pretty darn happy and surprised with this defense. This is a whole different team now...lets see if the offense can start clicking...time will tell
 
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PackerfaninCarolina

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2-0 is better than 1-1 and 0-2. I'll take it but it can't make me happy or unhappy.

It's a spectator sport. It's not like I could still play.

See I concur. 2-0 is good but meaningless in the long run just like 6-0 in 2015 was.
 

Dantés

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Some posters here will not be happy regardless. Some will be happy no matter what. Most will be steadier than that. Seems to me that most of the middle type are feeling good, myself included.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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That’s not true from this standpoint... when you examine all SB WINNING teams (after all, that’s the end goal isn’t it?) The average D is ranked Lower (about 7th) than the the average Offense (about 8th)
That does not convince me that a better Offense wins over a better Defense.

Depends, but see with rankings that close it does go to show how important offense is on Superbowl winning teams.

And 2014 and 2015 are two years that are more indicting on the offense and special teams more so than the defense. At the time I let him off the hook for it, but in hindsight Mike McCarthy screwed up bad by not going for those 4th and goals in Seattle, and not going for 2 in Arizona.

Coaches who play it safe like MM did in those games or like McVay did in last year's Superbowl never ever win.
 

PackAttack12

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Yeah, but the Vikings aren't going to be fading anytime soon. They're a good team.
They ain’t going a damn place though with that quarterback they have. If they weren’t in our division I’d almost feel sorry for them.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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They ain’t going a damn place though with that quarterback they have. If they weren’t in our division I’d almost feel sorry for them.

I'd never even come close to feeling sorry for them even if they were in the AFC. Any team that has Anthony Barr on it deserves to be kicked around as bad as this year's Miami Dolphin team.
 

Ogsponge

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I have debunked this whole great offense narrative multiple times on this board by showing the offensive and defensive rankings of all the Super Bowl winners. There are a couple of outliers but the large majority of a time it takes both a very good offense and a very good defense to win it all.

It is total fact supported by the stats, in the name of all that is holy please stop pretending a good offense is all that matters.
 

rmontro

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It is total fact supported by the stats, in the name of all that is holy please stop pretending a good offense is all that matters.
If the last eight years haven't taught us that, nothing ever will.
 

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