Shane Ray to the Bay?

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Green Bay were to acquire Shane Ray, regardless of what it takes to make it happen; you have his rights entering restricted free agency. To trade for Ray and acquire draft picks, while also holding his rights; ensure further compensation at the end of next season. Let's say Ray over-performs for the Packers. We can place any kind of tender on him, requiring adequate compensation, which would fortify next years draft stockpile. Packers are not getting many compensatory picks for next year, if any. Never hurts to pick up the phone.

I will pass, keeping my first round pick, which could be as high as a #1 pick. If you want Ray, offer them a 7th rounder and come down from there. Or just wait for Ray to hit Free Agency next year and pay him what you would have had to anyway.

 

[McKnowledge]

I understood that. If Ray is worth a 5th, would you trade the packers 1st for a 3rd, 4th, and 5th?

Ray an is an intriguing prospect, or at least he was. He is coming off an injury and did not impress when he was healthy last season. He doesn't have very much value, but it doesn't mean there isn't a chance he turns it around. These stories don't often end in a positive way.

If Shane Ray is worth a 5th pick, hell yea...I would consider giving Denver the extra 1st round pick from next year. GB gets Shane Ray for a year of evaluation, a 3rd, a 4th, and a 5th (according to your above statement)? Hell yea is the answer.

 

[McKnowledge]

I will pass, keeping my first round pick, which could be as high as a #1 pick. If you want Ray, offer them a 7th rounder and come down from there. Or just wait for Ray to hit Free Agency next year and pay him what you would have had to anyway.

No way. The New Orleans Saints will not finish next season as the worst team in football. My proposal is three fold. Secure the player (Shane Ray), get more draft picks, and secure the rights to the player (Shane Ray) entering restricted free agency.

 

[AmishMafia]

If Shane Ray is worth a 5th pick, hell yea...I would consider giving Denver the extra 1st round pick from next year. GB gets Shane Ray for a year of evaluation, a 3rd, a 4th, and a 5th (according to your above statement)? Hell yea is the answer.

Not what I said, or meant, anyway.

They would take a 5th round pick for Ray.

Instead of that, you want to give them a 1st for a 3rd, a 4th, and a player whose value is a 5th.

Or how about this, make it easy on ourselves:

Option A:
Pack gets Ray
Den gets 5th rnd pick

Option B:
Pack gets Ray, 3rd, and 4th rnd picks
Den gets 1st rnd pick

Choose 1

 

[Firethorn1001]

If there was a Mount Rushmore of bad ideas on the internet for May 2nd, this one would be 2nd from the right.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No way. The New Orleans Saints will not finish next season as the worst team in football. My proposal is three fold. Secure the player (Shane Ray), get more draft picks, and secure the rights to the player (Shane Ray) entering restricted free agency.

I think we all know what you are proposing, although it does seem to fluctuate with every post and most if not all of us think it would be crazy to give up a first round pick that could be anywhere from the #1 pick to the #32 in a deal for Shane Ray.

Did you stop to think and I still don't agree with it this way either and hesitate to give you more fuel for your fire, but the smarter move would be to offer them the "worst" of whatever 2 first round picks the Packers end up with?

Your scenario doesn't secure more draft capital, it is a loss of what could be very high draft capital. As well as overspending draft capital for a player that could probably be obtained much cheaper.

 

[Poppa San]

and if you lose him in FA, you had a one year rental for a 1st round pick. Everyone will want to fleece do business with Gute.

 

[McKnowledge]

Not what I said, or meant, anyway.

They would take a 5th round pick for Ray.

Instead of that, you want to give them a 1st for a 3rd, a 4th, and a player whose value is a 5th.

Or how about this, make it easy on ourselves:

Option A:
Pack gets Ray
Den gets 5th rnd pick

Option B:
Pack gets Ray, 3rd, and 4th rnd picks
Den gets 1st rnd pick

Choose 1

Where's the 5th rounder in Option B? I decline to participate, because you just changed what you initially said...

I understood that. If Ray is worth a 5th, would you trade the packers 1st for a 3rd, 4th, and 5th?

You're taking picks from the offer. I couldn't do business with you.

 

[Dantés]

I understand where you're coming from, but you also highlight my point. Ayers is old, and becoming ineffective. Ahmad Brooks was another cheap veteran that was ineffective last season for the Pack. Shane Ray offers something that is invaluable in the NFL...potential. Potential is what motivates GMs to do what they do. The potential to succeed. The potential to win. The draft is all about potential. Shane Ray is a high draft pick on a team that no longer believes in him. If properly motivated; he could help the Pack out.

Ray being younger does mean he has more potential to improve, but not anywhere near enough to pay a 1st round pick for him. If he could he had for a later round pick, sure. But otherwise I’d rather have Ayers, keep our picks, and draft an edge high in 2019.

I just fail to see where it makes sense to pay a premium price for another bad Elway draft pick.

 

[McKnowledge]

Ray being younger does mean he has more potential to improve, but not anywhere near enough to pay a 1st round pick for him. If he could he had for a later round pick, sure. But otherwise I’d rather have Ayers, keep our picks, and draft an edge high in 2019.

I just fail to see where it makes sense to pay a premium price for another bad Elway draft pick.

I have a really big problem with this whole "wait til next year" mantra. This is the mentality that will make the Packers perennial contenders and not actual winners. I keep looking at teams like Pittsburgh, New England, and even the Rams this year; they get it...they truly get it. As long as Green Bay has Aaron Rodgers you have to maximize each and every season. I don't know if its traditional "old school" thinking to just do enough, but that way of thinking is ancient in the current NFL.

 

[McKnowledge]

I think we all know what you are proposing, although it does seem to fluctuate with every post and most if not all of us think it would be crazy to give up a first round pick that could be anywhere from the #1 pick to the #32 in a deal for Shane Ray.

Did you stop to think and I still don't agree with it this way either and hesitate to give you more fuel for your fire, but the smarter move would be to offer them the "worst" of whatever 2 first round picks the Packers end up with?

Your scenario doesn't secure more draft capital, it is a loss of what could be very high draft capital. As well as overspending draft capital for a player that could probably be obtained much cheaper.

I don't think I've wavered at all. I've never chastised anyone for disagreeing with me. However, if you come on the forum with some lame reply without any substance, what's the point. I'm bored. I created a thread, many people (notable forum-ers) have participated; this forum is true. I just have a problem with people that feign ignorance. My proposal is clear and I have no problem reasonably debating over it. I think the 2019 1st round draft pick will at some point in time, whether this season or next, will be involved in a transaction. I like Shane Ray, I think it would be a good move. Shane Ray, player w/ potential (my opinion), 3rd ,4th, and 5th round picks (introduced by AmishMafia) in next year's draft is a nice haul. Once again, not to mention; retaining his rights in restricted free agency if he were to contribute to GB's success.

 

[AmishMafia]

Where's the 5th rounder in Option B? I decline to participate, because you just changed what you initially said...

You're taking picks from the offer. I couldn't do business with you.

I understood that. If Ray is worth a 5th, would you trade the packers 1st for a 3rd, 4th, and 5th?

I'm not sure what the hell you are talking about. Maybe read it again and you wi understand it. Or are you avoiding the question because you realize you are wrong?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have a really big problem with this whole "wait til next year" mantra. This is the mentality that will make the Packers perennial contenders and not actual winners. I keep looking at teams like Pittsburgh, New England, and even the Rams this year; they get it...they truly get it. As long as Green Bay has Aaron Rodgers you have to maximize each and every season. I don't know if its traditional "old school" thinking to just do enough, but that way of thinking is ancient in the current NFL.

Last time I looked, the Steelers last won a Super Bowl in 2009, the Rams...2000. So your "perennial contenders and not actual winners" comment is a bit odd. If you toss out last year, due to the loss Aaron Rodgers, the Packers have the 2nd best record in the NFL over the last 10 years. Even if you include it, they are top 3.

So what do these 3 top teams get, that the Packers don't? You trade first round future picks for a backup OLB, that has had 3 surgeries on the same wrist and is in the final year of his rookie contract? That seems more like a move that the Browns would make.

 

[GleefulGary]

Dude. Amish isn't including a 5th round pick. He is saying Ray, with his talent and a year left on his contract, is worth the equivalent of a 5th round pick. If Ray is then worth the equivalent of a 5th round pick, what you are doing is trading a 1st round pick for a 3rd, 4th and 5th round pick.

Do you understand now?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm starting to think this is Shane Ray's Dad.

 

[Spanky]

Could we please disregard any mention of trading a 1st for Shane Rey, and focus instead on whether he'd be worth trading for with a reasonable offer?

Or we could continue flogging McK...

Your choice.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I'm starting to think this is Shane Ray's Dad.

I'm thinking it is John Elway.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I actually wouldn't mind trading for Ray but a first is ridiculous. I would struggle with a 4th. Denver just chose not to pick up his option. How long would we even have him for - 1 year? Maybe 2? How would that be worth a first? Not to mention a second or third.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Could we please disregard any mention of trading a 1st for Shane Rey, and focus instead on whether he'd be worth trading for with a reasonable offer?

Or we could continue flogging McK...

Your choice.

Tough choice, isn't it a traditional part of Packer Forum hazing?

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[Pokerbrat2000]

At least nobody has suggested trading Aaron Rodgers for Ray and a couple of picks.

 

[Dantés]

I have a really big problem with this whole "wait til next year" mantra. This is the mentality that will make the Packers perennial contenders and not actual winners. I keep looking at teams like Pittsburgh, New England, and even the Rams this year; they get it...they truly get it. As long as Green Bay has Aaron Rodgers you have to maximize each and every season. I don't know if its traditional "old school" thinking to just do enough, but that way of thinking is ancient in the current NFL.

I have a really big problem with this mentality. Just because I think it would be foolish to throw a first round pick away on a guy who, in my opinion, is in no way worth that, I have a “wait til next year mantra,” I’m “old school,” and I only want the Packers to “just do enough.”

Meanwhile, I’m still suggesting they add players. Do I have to root for them to burn a first round pick on an Elway bust to get credit for wanting the Packers to be aggressive?

 

[Dantés]

The problem with Ray, in my opinion, is that his body type and his pass rush strengths do not line up. He’s small— 6’3” 245. That’s the size of a speed rusher who can bend around tackles a la Miller or Beasley. But that’s not at all his game. He was successful at Missouri as an explosive, straight line athlete who won with power. But at 245, converting speed to power isn’t a way to make a living in the NFL. And I don’t think he has the flexibility or agility to take a different approach. I thought he was a bad pick when Elways took him and I think situational rusher is his ceiling as a pro. It would seem even the Broncos agree, as they drafted someone to start over him. I would trade a late round pick and let him rotate, but by no means would I trade an early draft pick. It would be much smarter to just sign a guy like Ayers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think its too steep of a price. Green Bay has two 2019 1st round picks. Why not use it to acquire a young player, with talent, evaluate his season, and go from there. It wouldn't even have to be a 1st rounder, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder would suffice. However, Shane Ray is essential in a lame duck season, and he would give the Pack a pass rusher that is desperately needed.

Don't get me wrong, it might turn out to be a smart move inquiring about Ray but only when offering a late round pick at best.

Also, getting Shane Ray a year before hitting restricted free agency is the point.

Ray will be an unrestricted free agent in 2019.

 

[McKnowledge]

Don't get me wrong, it might turn out to be a smart move inquiring about Ray but only when offering a late round pick at best.

Ray will be an unrestricted free agent in 2019.

I stand corrected Captain. Shane Ray will be an unrestricted free agent next off-season. However, it would be nice to get him for this year and go from there. I just think he would be a great fit for the defense.