Shane Ray to the Bay?

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
This isn't really free agency related, but its an important component of team building before training camp and the upcoming season.

Are there any moves, whether cuts, signings, or trades that anyone wants Green Bay to make now that the draft is over?

I'm creating this thread by focusing on players from other teams still on their rookie deals, that did not have their fourth or fifth year option picked up. Usually these players are ones that (at the very least) have the potential to significantly contribute to a winning team.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Shane Ray of the Denver Broncos, recently was not picked for a fifth year option, effectively placing him in a one-year evaluation scenario. He's been there for 3 years now, and maybe its not a good fit. Shane Ray is talented would be a definite positive addition to the Packers' pass rush. He could primarily play OLB and possibly DE when needed. He provides outside pass rushing, which is a need.

Shane Ray's profile...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/shane-ray?id=2552451

Denver Broncos not picking up his option (5th year)...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-broncos-decline-to-pick-up-shane-rays-option

Should Green Bay use a pick from next year, maybe the Saints 2019 1st round pick, to Denver for Shane Ray and a mid/late picks?
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Should Green Bay use a pick from next year, maybe the Saints 2019 1st round pick, to Denver for Shane Ray and a mid/late picks?

The Packers definitely shouldn't trade a first round pick to acquire Ray. That would be way too steep of a price.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,016
Reaction score
2,948
I'd way rather just sign Robert Ayers than spend a pick to acquire Shane Ray.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
I'd way rather just sign Robert Ayers than spend a pick to acquire Shane Ray.

I would pass on Robert Ayers. Even before free agency and the draft, without adequate pass rushing, the Bucs weren't sold on Ayers. The difference with Shane Ray in Denver, is that they already have pass rushing (Miller, Chubb, Barrett) and Ray would be too expensive as the fourth wheel.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
The Packers definitely shouldn't trade a first round pick to acquire Ray. That would be way too steep of a price.

I don't think its too steep of a price. Green Bay has two 2019 1st round picks. Why not use it to acquire a young player, with talent, evaluate his season, and go from there. It wouldn't even have to be a 1st rounder, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder would suffice. However, Shane Ray is essential in a lame duck season, and he would give the Pack a pass rusher that is desperately needed.
 

GleefulGary

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
5,012
Reaction score
505
Shane Ray of the Denver Broncos, recently was not picked for a fifth year option, effectively placing him in a one-year evaluation scenario. He's been there for 3 years now, and maybe its not a good fit. Shane Ray is talented would be a definite positive addition to the Packers' pass rush. He could primarily play OLB and possibly DE when needed. He provides outside pass rushing, which is a need.

Shane Ray's profile...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/shane-ray?id=2552451

Denver Broncos not picking up his option (5th year)...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-broncos-decline-to-pick-up-shane-rays-option

Should Green Bay use a pick from next year, maybe the Saints 2019 1st round pick, to Denver for Shane Ray and a mid/late picks?

Hold up...

You think Shane Ray could play DE for us? Because when you say OLB and DE, you're implying the DE position in a 3-4. Shane Ray is 245 pounds. That ain't happening. He's an edge.

And why would we trade a 1st round pick for a guy that Denver doesn't want? That's silly.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,182
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
There are always going to be some options out there as far as trades go. Denver is loaded at OLB and they might be a team willing to trade a guy like Ray, Walker or Barrett. How one of them would fit in Green Bay would depend on how Pettine sees things. As Captain said, I wouldn't give up a first rounder for any of those guys. Ideally, you trade players (not picks) that you feel won't be on the Packers final 53.

Now that the dust is settling from the draft, Gute and Co. can sit down and look directly at needs for 2018 and maybe beyond. I'm sure part of that conversation is looking at all current unsigned guys, maybe predicting some cuts and talking to teams like Denver, who may be loaded at a position of need.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Hold up...

You think Shane Ray could play DE for us? Because when you say OLB and DE, you're implying the DE position in a 3-4. Shane Ray is 245 pounds. That ain't happening. He's an edge.

And why would we trade a 1st round pick for a guy that Denver doesn't want? That's silly.

Mike Pettine has been on record stating he would employ multiple defenses. Never once, did I say 4-3 or 3-4 or otherwise. It is possible to get your best defenders on the field, in any capacity, as long as the defensive scheme plays to their strengths. While it may seems silly to you (your opinion), offering a 1st rounder for Shane Ray and also another pick or two, sounds like good business.
 

swhitset

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
1,217
The Packers definitely shouldn't trade a first round pick to acquire Ray. That would be way too steep of a price.
Agreed one of the biggest values of a first round draft pick is that you hope to get a good player on a relatively cheap contract for a few years. trading for a guy that has already used up those cheap years better mean he is worth that expensive 2nd contract... the fact that Denver chose not to exercise the 5th year option, is evidence against it.
 

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
2,408
Location
PENDING
I don't think its too steep of a price. Green Bay has two 2019 1st round picks. Why not use it to acquire a young player, with talent, evaluate his season, and go from there. It wouldn't even have to be a 1st rounder, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder would suffice. However, Shane Ray is essential in a lame duck season, and he would give the Pack a pass rusher that is desperately needed.
Because he is simply not worth it. Denver would jump at a 3rd round pick, sure as hell wouldn't offer a 1st. Hell, you probably offer them a fifth and they would take it. You only get him a year before he becomes a FA. And I sure would not sign him to a long term deal. He is coming off an injury plagued season where he got 1 sack. He only has 13 career sacks. A 5th may be too much.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Because he is simply not worth it. Denver would jump at a 3rd round pick, sure as hell wouldn't offer a 1st. Hell, you probably offer them a fifth and they would take it. You only get him a year before he becomes a FA. And I sure would not sign him to a long term deal. He is coming off an injury plagued season where he got 1 sack. He only has 13 career sacks. A 5th may be too much.

I actually think Denver would jump at a 1st round pick. Every team would listen to an offer involving a 1st round pick, which is the point. Starting with a 1st round pick gets your foot in the door. My point is to not only get Shane Ray, but also additional draft value. I would expect No. 2019 1st round pick to be high 20's at least, and flipping it for Shane Ray, and let's say a 3rd and a 4th rounder could be a nice trade. Also, getting Shane Ray a year before hitting restricted free agency is the point.
 

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
2,408
Location
PENDING
I actually think Denver would jump at a 1st round pick. Every team would listen to an offer involving a 1st round pick, which is the point. Starting with a 1st round pick gets your foot in the door. My point is to not only get Shane Ray, but also additional draft value. I would expect No. 2019 1st round pick to be high 20's at least, and flipping it for Shane Ray, and let's say a 3rd and a 4th rounder could be a nice trade. Also, getting Shane Ray a year before hitting restricted free agency is the point.
Of course they would jump at a 1st. They would also jump at a 5th. What do you mean "get your foot in the door"?

I can hear this negotiatin now:

McK: hey Elway, we are interested in Shane Ray.
Elway: "okay, what are you offering?"
McK:"How about a 1st round pick?"
Elway: [stunned silence]
McK: John?
Elway: ummm, (eager giggle) okay
McK: now that my foot is in the door, how about we just give you a 6th rounder instead of the 1st?
Elway:WTH is wrong with you? Okay, you can have him for a 6th
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Agreed one of the biggest values of a first round draft pick is that you hope to get a good player on a relatively cheap contract for a few years. trading for a guy that has already used up those cheap years better mean he is worth that expensive 2nd contract... the fact that Denver chose not to exercise the 5th year option, is evidence against it.

If Green Bay were to acquire Shane Ray, regardless of what it takes to make it happen; you have his rights entering restricted free agency. To trade for Ray and acquire draft picks, while also holding his rights; ensure further compensation at the end of next season. Let's say Ray over-performs for the Packers. We can place any kind of tender on him, requiring adequate compensation, which would fortify next years draft stockpile. Packers are not getting many compensatory picks for next year, if any. Never hurts to pick up the phone.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Of course they would jump at a 1st. They would also jump at a 5th. What do you mean "get your foot in the door"?

I can hear this negotiatin now:

McK: hey Elway, we are interested in Shane Ray.
Elway: "okay, what are you offering?"
McK:"How about a 1st round pick?"
Elway: [stunned silence]
McK: John?
Elway: ummm, (eager giggle) okay
McK: now that my foot is in the door, how about we just give you a 6th rounder instead of the 1st?
Elway:WTH is wrong with you? Okay, you can have him for a 6th

Lol. Are you screenwriter? Who is McK? Also, clearly you're intentionally not comprehending the statement I made, that you're quoting. Offering a 1st round pick (late 1st) for Shane Ray, a 3rd and 4th pick is a nice haul.
 

Titletown01

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
17
Reaction score
6
Mike Pettine has been on record stating he would employ multiple defenses. Never once, did I say 4-3 or 3-4 or otherwise. It is possible to get your best defenders on the field, in any capacity, as long as the defensive scheme plays to their strengths. While it may seems silly to you (your opinion), offering a 1st rounder for Shane Ray and also another pick or two, sounds like good business.

What? It’s absolutely crazy to trade a first round pick for him, even if we get something else.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,016
Reaction score
2,948
I would pass on Robert Ayers. Even before free agency and the draft, without adequate pass rushing, the Bucs weren't sold on Ayers. The difference with Shane Ray in Denver, is that they already have pass rushing (Miller, Chubb, Barrett) and Ray would be too expensive as the fourth wheel.

Maybe there were other reasons why the Bucs wanted Ayers gone, but from what I can tell they decided that they'd rather have JPP and Curry, who carry a combined cap hit of 19M. So to accommodate that, they cut the older player (Ayers) for the cap savings.

But in my opinion, Ayers is as good or better than Shane Ray and wouldn't cost a pick. Ray has had his moments as a rotational rusher, but he isn't a stud by any stretch and he's certainly not worth a first round pick.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,016
Reaction score
2,948
For what its worth, PFF had Ayers with 45 pressures and 17 QB hits last season despite the low sack total. If they're accurate, that's a lot of pressure. And he's a strong run defender. I think he's a souped up version of Ahmad Brooks, who was the late offseason depth signing last year.
 

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
2,408
Location
PENDING
Let me be clear... Denver gives up Shane Ray, 3rd and 4th (2019)=Green Bay's 1st (2019). Doesn't have to be Green Bay's 1st round pick (2019). Could be a 2nd or 3rd round pick...similar to what the Patriots did this off-season...

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23386558/new-england-patriots-plan-pick-option-danny-shelton
I understood that. If Ray is worth a 5th, would you trade the packers 1st for a 3rd, 4th, and 5th?

Ray an is an intriguing prospect, or at least he was. He is coming off an injury and did not impress when he was healthy last season. He doesn't have very much value, but it doesn't mean there isn't a chance he turns it around. These stories don't often end in a positive way.
 
OP
OP
McKnowledge

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
Maybe there were other reasons why the Bucs wanted Ayers gone, but from what I can tell they decided that they'd rather have JPP and Curry, who carry a combined cap hit of 19M. So to accommodate that, they cut the older player (Ayers) for the cap savings.

But in my opinion, Ayers is as good or better than Shane Ray and wouldn't cost a pick. Ray has had his moments as a rotational rusher, but he isn't a stud by any stretch and he's certainly not worth a first round pick.

I understand where you're coming from, but you also highlight my point. Ayers is old, and becoming ineffective. Ahmad Brooks was another cheap veteran that was ineffective last season for the Pack. Shane Ray offers something that is invaluable in the NFL...potential. Potential is what motivates GMs to do what they do. The potential to succeed. The potential to win. The draft is all about potential. Shane Ray is a high draft pick on a team that no longer believes in him. If properly motivated; he could help the Pack out.
 

thisisnate

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
185
Location
Maine
Opening discussions with Denver RE: the availability of some of their underutilized pass rushers is something I've mentioned in other threads on this forum in the past week, but trading a 1st round pick to do it would be unthinkably bad business.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top