Round 4 pick 108 Vince Biegel

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
13,988
Reaction score
4,907
From all I've read and seen this dude for a 4th rounder should be a week in and week out workhorse that will never take plays off and will keep head clean.

Some have said Hawk or Poppinga type ceiling....if so I'll take it an run with it. In likelihood I think his ceiling is higher than Pop but if that is all we get than still solid for a 4th for sure.

Kampman was this type...Lowry last year is very similar in effort and work mentality... I have realistic apprehension but also realistically optimistic too for this pick.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
As a matter of fact, I do not agree. I would like to see Capers go no matter what.
Well, I may hold the forum record for typing the words, "fire Capers". It's a time for optimism, he's not going anywhere until January or February :eek:, so I'll refrain until the next money game defensive clusterf*ck.
 

Mavster

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
468
Reaction score
61
Dallas is the obvious one that comes to mind. Couple of years ago I think only 2 maybe 3 of their players would have started for our team. Yet the Dallas defense finished ranked higher than ours.

That's only one team. And I can nearly guarantee that GB has invested more into their defense than any other team in the league since 2010. At least in regards to the draft

I mean seriously what other GM would get such a pass? And don't get me wrong here either I'm totally fine with moving on from Capers as well. How this guy can still have a job after so many historically bad performances is nuts. If the D is bad again this year I think we'll definitely see some changes.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
Well, I may hold the forum record for typing the words, "fire Capers". It's a time for optimism, he's not going anywhere until January or February :eek:, so I'll refrain until the next money game defensive clusterf*ck.

If nothing else, this draft should serve as a notice to Capers and even TT, if you can't put a defense together with 6 years of heavy draft resources being pumped into it, you are in the wrong job. Just how long Mark Murphy and the Packers organization gives both of them to show the results is unknown, but this draft and the 5 before it, has to have that clock ticking quite loudly.
 
Last edited:

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,044
Reaction score
2,970
If nothing else, this draft should serve as a notice to Capers and even TT, if you can't put a defense together with 6 years of heavy draft resources being pumped into it, you are in the wrong job. Just how long Mark Murphy and the Packers organization gives both of them to show the results is unknown, but this draft and the 5 before it, has to have that clock ticking quite loudly.

After this year, they should turn back to the offense. They need future starters at WR and TE. It's possible that the RG of the future isn't on this roster. You can't neglect that side forever. Really, they've only been able to do it this long because TT has been so excellent with OL in the middle rounds.
 
OP
OP
AmishMafia

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,319
Reaction score
2,428
Location
PENDING
That's only one team. And I can nearly guarantee that GB has invested more into their defense than any other team in the league since 2010. At least in regards to the draft

I mean seriously what other GM would get such a pass? And don't get me wrong here either I'm totally fine with moving on from Capers as well. How this guy can still have a job after so many historically bad performances is nuts. If the D is bad again this year I think we'll definitely see some changes.
Many fans can only see a lack of production and believe that is a lack of talent. Think about Lombardi. The roster he took over had over a dozen HOFers and probowlers and yet they were the worst team in the NFL. With a very focused and energetic coaching style, the talent evolved.

There is a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball. Our scheme is fine. Our game plans suck. Our players dont seem to improve much.

How can the FO select just good offensive talent and not defense? It's silly to think there is a difference in finding talent on one side of the ball or anither.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
After this year, they should turn back to the offense. They need future starters at WR and TE. It's possible that the RG of the future isn't on this roster. You can't neglect that side forever. Really, they've only been able to do it this long because TT has been so excellent with OL in the middle rounds.

It has also helped that we have #12 as QB. Can you imagine the Packer offense without him? Doesn't matter that you have a great pass blocking line and decent receivers, if the QB is average. Not to mention, our run game has benefited because of the respect defenses have to give Rodgers. While I like our receiving group (including TE's), change is just on the horizon there and I think TT took a few light swings at it yesterday with the two WR's he chose. But we may run out of time to try to hit it big on the Abby's, Janis's, Davis's etc and just pony up in the draft or via Free agency to keep providing AR with the weapons he will continually need.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
If nothing else, this draft should serve as a notice to Capers and even TT, if you can't put a defense together with 6 years of heavy draft resources being pumped into it, you are in the wrong job. Just how long Mark Murphy and the Packers organization gives both of them to show the results is unknown, but this draft and the 5 before it, has to have that clock ticking quite loudly.

In thinking about my own statement above, this probably is one of the things that separates the Packers from the Patriots. BB has had the ability to whiff on a pick or two, but makes up for it via Free Agency and trades, while also benefiting from having Tom Brady at QB to keep the offense productive and maintaining a solid defense by rotating the needed parts.
 

Mavster

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
468
Reaction score
61
Many fans can only see a lack of production and believe that is a lack of talent. Think about Lombardi. The roster he took over had over a dozen HOFers and probowlers and yet they were the worst team in the NFL. With a very focused and energetic coaching style, the talent evolved.

There is a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball. Our scheme is fine. Our game plans suck. Our players dont seem to improve much.

How can the FO select just good offensive talent and not defense? It's silly to think there is a difference in finding talent on one side of the ball or anither.

Well history has shown us just exactly that. Ted can't draft defense to save his life. Not sure how it's silly either. Having a HOF QB makes drafting on offense a million times easier

Plus I'm not sure what Lombardi has to do with today's game. The league was a joke back then.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
In thinking about my own statement above, this probably is one of the things that separates the Packers from the Patriots. BB has had the ability to whiff on a pick or two, but makes up for it via Free Agency and trades, while also benefiting from having Tom Brady at QB to keep the offense productive and maintaining a solid defense by rotating the needed parts.
Well, Thompson's uncharacteristic number of vet free agent signings to fill holes (Bennett, Kendricks, Francois, Evans) looks a bit Belichickian, doesn't it? What we're missing is a vet trade. ;)
 

bigbubbatd

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
1,679
Reaction score
166
In thinking about my own statement above, this probably is one of the things that separates the Packers from the Patriots. BB has had the ability to whiff on a pick or two, but makes up for it via Free Agency and trades, while also benefiting from having Tom Brady at QB to keep the offense productive and maintaining a solid defense by rotating the needed parts.

The other thing that the Patriots have is a superior coaching staff. I hate saying that but it is true. If a guy goes down that team game plans around it. That is not true of gb
 
OP
OP
AmishMafia

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,319
Reaction score
2,428
Location
PENDING
Well history has shown us just exactly that. Ted can't draft defense to save his life. Not sure how it's silly either. Having a HOF QB makes drafting on offense a million times easier

Plus I'm not sure what Lombardi has to do with today's game. The league was a joke back then.
So, your response to my point is 'But TT sucks' ? Did you not read my post or did you not even think about it?

Good grief. History shows us that if you hate TT you will never even bother thinking again. If you want to debate a point you are actually going to have to think about it, use some logic, analyze, and then present your opinion.
 

Sky King

158.3
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
329
Location
Out of the clear blue western skies...
If nothing else, this draft should serve as a notice to Capers and even TT, if you can't put a defense together with 6 years of heavy draft resources being pumped into it, you are in the wrong job. Just how long Mark Murphy and the Packers organization gives both of them to show the results is unknown, but this draft and the 5 before it, has to have that clock ticking quite loudly.
If there's any asterisk to what you have stated is that none of the busts amounted to anything when they landed somewhere else. To me as though the scale tips more heavily towards lack of talent (TT & staff) than it would towards Capers. My fingers are crossed that TT has hit on some genuine talent with this last draft. He's way overdue.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
If there's any asterisk to what you have stated is that none of the busts amounted to anything when they landed somewhere else. To me as though the scale tips more heavily towards lack of talent (TT & staff) than it would towards Capers. My fingers are crossed that TT has hit on some genuine talent with this last draft. He's way overdue.
Some of those potential busts are still on the team ;). As are some potential hits. Hayward and Worthy are a wash as far as TT VS Capers. But you are right, is it the chicken or the egg? Personally, if the defense fails this year, I think its time to make an omelette and let them both hit the frying pan.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
Well, Thompson's uncharacteristic number of vet free agent signings to fill holes (Bennett, Kendricks, Francois, Evans) looks a bit Belichickian, doesn't it? What we're missing is a vet trade. ;)
Maybe our little Teddy is finally growing up? ;)
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,277
Reaction score
8,010
Location
Madison, WI
Well history has shown us just exactly that. Ted can't draft defense to save his life. Not sure how it's silly either. Having a HOF QB makes drafting on offense a million times easier

Plus I'm not sure what Lombardi has to do with today's game. The league was a joke back then.

Having AR doesn't change one's ability to draft, it just makes it easier to cover up your mistakes, but I know what you mean ;)
 

easyk83

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
280
IMHO Capers best years came when TT wasn't really drafting for Capers scheme, save for 2009 and 10. But those defenses heavily relied on old stalwarts like Pickett Woodson Bishop Collins Harris Jenkins and yes Hawk. Is the sudden downtown in our defensive fortunes the result of Teddy struggling to find talent or is it that the defense is simply too complicated to be effective? Perhaps it's hard to find the right marriage between the brains that Capers needs and the physical traits necessary to succeed in the league.
 

Sky King

158.3
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
329
Location
Out of the clear blue western skies...
Some of those potential busts are still on the team ;). As are some potential hits. Hayward and Worthy are a wash as far as TT VS Capers. But you are right, is it the chicken or the egg? Personally, if the defense fails this year, I think its time to make an omelette and let them both hit the frying pan.
Boy, TT's draft success has really tailed-off the past few years, something that the recent JSO article on the subject clearly documented. So much of TT's recent draft efforts have been devoted to defense and yet we still have been seeing chronic mediocrity on D having become the persistent reality year after year. While an elite DC might be able to squeeze better performances out of average players than a jag DC could do with the same level of talent, I'm convinced that there's just no effective substitute for genuine talent out on the playing field.

I'm also disappointed with what a Capers-led defense can't seem to do well, especially at crucial times, feeling very much similar to quite a few others who have regularly opined on this subject via the forum. I get it. But I'm slightly-less willing to condemn him equally to the GM in this matter because TT and his staff have given him a whole lot of chicken "stuff" from which he's supposed to whip-up gourmet (SB capable) chicken salad. Injuries are not an excuse since TT chronically rolls the dice on UDFAs, as well, for providing much needed roster depth. Instead of acquiring a few more mid-level FAs with valuable NFL experience to fill at least a few more of those ever-present holes in the roster, he has mostly leaned heavily towards cheaper the UDFAs with the compounding flaw of them also lacking in adequate NFL experience.

That lack of experienced backups just adds to the lack-of-talent problem IMHO, and we're not talking about the elite, high-dollar type of FAs that garner the biggest salaries. Thankfully, he stepped out of character because he went after more FAs than usual during this offseason. A tip of the hat his way for bending a little. I hope that actually translates into greater success for 2017. In Bennett's case he's a player that's much closer to elite status than we're used to seeing out of a TT pick-up (unless that player is already over-the-hill...Ahem, Saturday). Peppers did not fit the mold of a Saturday but the clock may strike Midnight for him in Carolina this season. Here's hoping that Jahri Evans is at least a season away from receiving his own Father-Time knock-out punch.

I like the Packers much more as a whole than I dislike the GM and the current DC, and I always will. It was my pattern long before those fellows ever got here and I will continue to do so long after they've moved-on, Lord-willing. Therefore, I'm hoping that the team succeeds regardless of who's in charge of what and when -- recent playoff disappointments notwithstanding. The 70's and 80's are still too fresh in my mind to take the greater successes compiled over the past 25 years for granted.

I wish TT and Capers nothing but the best, although the fact should remain that TT is always on the clock -- same as any other GM -- past present or future. The DC should also be under some scrutiny himself. Tom Clements was not sacrosanct and I seriously doubt Capers is either.
 

smacker

Smacker = Smack talking Packer Fan
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
90
Reaction score
7
Location
Green Bay WI
Bloodlines? I hope TJ Watt has a great career, like I hope for all Wisconsin alum. Yet TJ only had one real year at Wisconsin as a starter. I remember the Philly fans excitement over Clay' brother and their disappointment, he was not Clay (at that time). Brothers are brothers, not twins, a lot in common, but I have never known two to be the same. It will still be fun and interesting to follow Watt and Biegel's careers and see who has the better one. Really I wish them both luck, unless the Steelers play the Packers.
 

Mavster

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
468
Reaction score
61
So, your response to my point is 'But TT sucks' ? Did you not read my post or did you not even think about it?

Good grief. History shows us that if you hate TT you will never even bother thinking again. If you want to debate a point you are actually going to have to think about it, use some logic, analyze, and then present your opinion.

You didn't even make any point in your post lol. And Im sorry, but any GM that has Aaron Rodgers leading his teams offense shouldn't have any trouble fielding an at least adequate defense. Not one that gives up nearly 37 a game in the playoffs despite years of defensive heavy drafting. Is this not at least partially on Thompson? Can you be objective in this regard for once, or are you going to continue crying when Ted isn't put up on a pedestal?
 
OP
OP
AmishMafia

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,319
Reaction score
2,428
Location
PENDING
You didn't even make any point in your post lol. And Im sorry, but any GM that has Aaron Rodgers leading his teams offense shouldn't have any trouble fielding an at least adequate defense. Not one that gives up nearly 37 a game in the playoffs despite years of defensive heavy drafting. Is this not at least partially on Thompson? Can you be objective in this regard for once, or are you going to continue crying when Ted isn't put up on a pedestal?
I made a point. You either didnt read it or comprehend. Maybe it didnt register with you because it didnt involve extreme criticism blaming TT for everything.
 
Last edited:

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,044
Reaction score
2,970
I posted this in the larger context of my thoughts on the draft over in my thread in the draft section, but here are the names of the drafted edge prospects since 1999 who have at least 118" in the broad and 6.92 in the 3 cone.
  • Kyle Vanden Bosch
  • David Pollack
  • J.J. Watt
  • Joey Bosa
  • Devin Taylor
  • Brian Robison
  • Daniel Te'o-Nesheim
  • Von Miller
  • Bruce Irvin
  • Barkevious Mingo
  • Demarcus Ware
  • Connor Barwin
  • Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
  • Clay Matthews
  • Manny Lawson
  • Vic Beasley
12/16 were/are highly successful NFL players. Obviously Biegel isn't going to be JJ Watt, but the point is that these traits translate.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,322
Reaction score
5,704
I see the issue of offense versus defense in the draft as a question of how, as in how does the team pick up talent. TT made 3 significant offensive acquisitions this offseason on the offensive side of the ball and might make one more in the post draft FA period.
True. To be fair Easy we have to factor in that we also lost a #1 TE, a #1 Guard, a #1 RB and a solid depth O Lineman in JC who played multiple positions pretty well. Other than us arguing Martellus being a slight upgrade, I'm not sure the trade-off of offseason acquisitions can be used to imply we somehow net improved our Offense this offseason (or even broke even) Respectfully to your reply, I would even risk saying I think our pre draft Offense may have regressed some.
As far as speculating on Offensive picks he "might" make yet this season? I can only hope you are right!
 
Last edited:

bigbubbatd

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
1,679
Reaction score
166
True. To be fair Easy we have to factor in that we also lost a #1 TE, a #1 Guard, a #1 RB and a solid depth O Lineman in JC who played multiple positions pretty well. Other than us arguing Martellus being a slight upgrade, I'm not sure the trade-off of offseason acquisitions can be used to imply we somehow net improved our Offense this offseason (or even broke even) Respectfully to your reply, I would even risk saying I think our pre draft Offense may have regressed some.
As far as speculating on Offensive picks he "might" make yet this season? I can only hope you are right!

Well lacy never played so it is hard to count him as a loss especially considering how well the offense played without him. Bennett and Kendricks are definitely an upgrade at te.
 

easyk83

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
280
I posted this in the larger context of my thoughts on the draft over in my thread in the draft section, but here are the names of the drafted edge prospects since 1999 who have at least 118" in the broad and 6.92 in the 3 cone.
  • Kyle Vanden Bosch
  • David Pollack
  • J.J. Watt
  • Joey Bosa
  • Devin Taylor
  • Brian Robison
  • Daniel Te'o-Nesheim
  • Von Miller
  • Bruce Irvin
  • Barkevious Mingo
  • Demarcus Ware
  • Connor Barwin
  • Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
  • Clay Matthews
  • Manny Lawson
  • Vic Beasley
12/16 were/are highly successful NFL players. Obviously Biegel isn't going to be JJ Watt, but the point is that these traits translate.

Biegel is a plus athlete at the position and he's ready to play from a mental scheme standpoint. Not sure why so many pegged him as just a high motor high effort guy.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top