Roster Questions

[Dantés]

Heading into the player acquisition portion of the offseason, there are a number of questions that puzzle me, and yet will have a pretty significant impact on the front office's goals. As I see them, here are the important decisions to be made before FA opens:

• Ty Montgomery: Is he primarily a running back or a slot weapon? If it's the former, then RB is almost an afterthought in terms of priority. If it's the latter, Cobb may be expendable as a pure slot receiver.
• Spriggs/Murphy: Is there institutional belief that one or both of these players are still ascending? Does the FO believe they have their future RT in house, or will they be looking for that guy in the draft?
• Justin McCray: Is he the new starting RG, meaning that the team only needs to acquire a backup, or is he merely a backup and the team needs to pony up and invest in a starting caliber player?
• Josh Jones: Is he a WILL linebacker or a strong safety? He certainly plays his best ball close to the LOS, but whether that's to be as a linebacker or safety will dictate which position gets more attention in the offseason.

How do you answer these questions? Are there any others that occur to you?

 

[GleefulGary]

Regarding Monty....I have no idea. He definitely flashed at RB, but we have good players there. I'd try to use him as a slot weapon, but that's just me.

Spriggs/Murphy: Bah. I don't think we can trust either one of them long term. I think we have to look for that guy in the draft, or sign a guy like Justin Pugh.

McCray: More than fine using him as our starting RG. I think he'll do fine, and I think eventually Lucas Patrick will be a starting caliber G. James Campen is a very good OL coach, which is part of the reason why I'm not very optimistic about Spriggs/Murphy. They have a good coach and they're still not getting it.

Josh Jones: Man. I think you could easy go either way with this one. Capers ran a fairly complex defense, and Jones was lost in coverage in that defense. To Jones' credit, so did all of our DB's, but especially so for him. I do think he is capable of being a fine box safety, but I think he can play the WILL too. Regardless of what we play him at, I do think we should target a S in the draft.



I think one of the biggest questions is what we do with Jordy/Cobb. I think Jordy might be more amenable to restructuring, but they both play the same position for the most part. We need an X or Z receiver to pair with Adams. I would prefer to address that in FA, but I'm not sure how we do that unless we cut one of them. As much as I hate to say it, I would rather cut Jordy.

 

[Dantés]

Regarding Monty....I have no idea. He definitely flashed at RB, but we have good players there. I'd try to use him as a slot weapon, but that's just me.

Spriggs/Murphy: Bah. I don't think we can trust either one of them long term. I think we have to look for that guy in the draft, or sign a guy like Justin Pugh.

McCray: More than fine using him as our starting RG. I think he'll do fine, and I think eventually Lucas Patrick will be a starting caliber G. James Campen is a very good OL coach, which is part of the reason why I'm not very optimistic about Spriggs/Murphy. They have a good coach and they're still not getting it.

Josh Jones: Man. I think you could easy go either way with this one. Capers ran a fairly complex defense, and Jones was lost in coverage in that defense. To Jones' credit, so did all of our DB's, but especially so for him. I do think he is capable of being a fine box safety, but I think he can play the WILL too. Regardless of what we play him at, I do think we should target a S in the draft.



I think one of the biggest questions is what we do with Jordy/Cobb. I think Jordy might be more amenable to restructuring, but they both play the same position for the most part. We need an X or Z receiver to pair with Adams. I would prefer to address that in FA, but I'm not sure how we do that unless we cut one of them. As much as I hate to say it, I would rather cut Jordy.

I tend to agree with you on Montgomery. He seems to carry the potential of being that backfield/slot weapon that they tried to turn Cobb into.

I would certainly think they need to throw another OT at the right tackle situation in the middle rounds.

I'm with you on McCray as well.

Jones is the one that I don't know what to do with.

 

[Mondio]

Jones is a tough one. I heard about how he was impressing in TC, but when I first saw him i have to say i was rather underwhelmed. Looked lost lot and just running around. Then the regular season came and he was making plays. Near the LOS like you said, but looked good doing it. Then later in the year, because of injury again, he was playing back and more in coverage and safety help in passing game and he looked lost, a lot. But then I think, he was a rookie and a lot of guys have looked lost back there with this defense at the worst times.

So was it him and his skill set, or will it be better with new coaching and more experience? I'd rather a rangy safety that can cover ground and play pass and cover TE's and come up and make plays in the run game and blitz packages. I now he can do the later and will get better with time too. we'll see about the first part. I think he stays at safety, but i'm just guessing.

 

[Veretax]

Jones is a tough one. I heard about how he was impressing in TC, but when I first saw him i have to say i was rather underwhelmed. Looked lost lot and just running around. Then the regular season came and he was making plays. Near the LOS like you said, but looked good doing it. Then later in the year, because of injury again, he was playing back and more in coverage and safety help in passing game and he looked lost, a lot. But then I think, he was a rookie and a lot of guys have looked lost back there with this defense at the worst times.

So was it him and his skill set, or will it be better with new coaching and more experience? I'd rather a rangy safety that can cover ground and play pass and cover TE's and come up and make plays in the run game and blitz packages. I now he can do the later and will get better with time too. we'll see about the first part. I think he stays at safety, but i'm just guessing.

You might be onto something. The other team I watch a lot (skins) changed Defensive coordinators and I didn't think it would make much of a difference, that all our players were crap, but it does matter who's designing and calling those defensive plays. The Skins d was better the next year not lights out better, but there is something to say about talent needing to be molded in a way that uses it.

 

[PackAttack12]

It's tough to make many determinations about the defense at this point with Pettine coming on board.

I do think that Jones/Williams proved enough that Montgomery could make Cobb expendable if he won't restructure. We really need a legit deep threat receiver opposite of Adams, though.

 

[XPack]

Monty should be in Slot. I'd every try to get him trained as a TE.

Josh Jones should be linebacker. He can also replace Burnett.

I do think that Jones/Williams proved enough that Montgomery could make Cobb expendable if he won't restructure.

Cobb is fastest of the lot in 40yd dash. If any Ty will compete with Davante, whilst Cobb competes Nelson. Stop using him in slot and you'll see a big uptick in his productivity.

 

[Dantés]

Monty should be in Slot. I'd every try to get him trained as a TE.

Josh Jones should be linebacker. He can also replace Burnett.

Cobb is fastest of the lot in 40yd dash. If any Ty will compete with Davante, whilst Cobb competes Nelson. Stop using him in slot and you'll see a big uptick in his productivity.

Cobb ain't fast anymore though.

On Jones-- Burnett was playing safety and slot for the most part in 2017. So if Jones is a linebacker, how is he replacing Burnett?

 

[XPack]

So if Jones is a linebacker, how is he replacing Burnett?

Those are 2 options, I think we can use him in.

Cobb ain't fast anymore though.

How did this come from? I think if used pure as a WR, he'll still be effective.

 

[Half Empty]

Monty should be in Slot. I'd every try to get him trained as a TE.

Josh Jones should be linebacker. He can also replace Burnett.



Cobb is fastest of the lot in 40yd dash. If any Ty will compete with Davante, whilst Cobb competes Nelson. Stop using him in slot and you'll see a big uptick in his productivity.

A 216 pound TE who (correct me if I'm wrong - just what I've read) isn't noted for blocking?

 

[GleefulGary]

Yeah. Monty isn't a TE.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO.....Monty could be on the bubble, mainly due to both Williams and Jones looking pretty good last year. As much as Monty flashed at RB in 2016, he had a very tough time absorbing hits as well as running after contact. Give him a hole and he is a good back. I just didn't think he ever really showed the instincts of a running back, maybe that will come eventually, but his durability has to be a big concern. Putting him back as a slot WR or strictly used as a 3rd down RB would be my choice. I think he is a receiving weapon coming out of the backfield, but lined up outside, meh, I will take a free agent or a rookie in the second round to eventually line up opposite Adams.

Monty also appears to run way to upright. Although, and I have said this before, I would rather see him behind AR than Cobb. MM just needs to completely take Cobb's name out of the playbook for any rushing plays.....that is if Cobb is on the roster in 2018.

 

[Dantés]

Here’s another question— once Pettine gets through all the tape, will he prefer the idea of Randall playing outside, in the slot, or either?

Because if he only prefers him outside, where he played his best ball last year, that may mean they look more at guys like Breeland, Carrie, Colvin, or Robey-Coleman.

If he wants Randall inside, the Packers need to think more about guys like Fuller, Johnson, Amukamara, etc.

 

[PackFan2]

Heading into the player acquisition portion of the offseason, there are a number of questions that puzzle me, and yet will have a pretty significant impact on the front office's goals. As I see them, here are the important decisions to be made before FA opens:

• Ty Montgomery: Is he primarily a running back or a slot weapon? If it's the former, then RB is almost an afterthought in terms of priority. If it's the latter, Cobb may be expendable as a pure slot receiver.
• Spriggs/Murphy: Is there institutional belief that one or both of these players are still ascending? Does the FO believe they have their future RT in house, or will they be looking for that guy in the draft?
• Justin McCray: Is he the new starting RG, meaning that the team only needs to acquire a backup, or is he merely a backup and the team needs to pony up and invest in a starting caliber player?
• Josh Jones: Is he a WILL linebacker or a strong safety? He certainly plays his best ball close to the LOS, but whether that's to be as a linebacker or safety will dictate which position gets more attention in the offseason.

How do you answer these questions? Are there any others that occur to you?

1) Ty is definitely on the bubble. Jack of all trades, master of none.

2) Spriggs and Murphy are not the answer at RT. In both practice and in game situation, they both got rocked. I saw Murphy as a guard. Spriggs has the length but his technique and strength is just too weak. He was a tight end convert to tackle. It would be a surprise if they even improve. Both injury prone. I say grab a FA or draft one in the 3-5 rounds in the draft.

3) McCray looked good might just be our next "Lane Taylor."

4) Would love to have Josh Jones play WILL linebacker but he has to have that linemen mentality to take and shed blocks. If Jones does show the want to, we'll either see a Deion Jones/Darron Lee (even now Jones/Lee still has trouble shedding blocks due to size but has the want to attitude) or Ryan Shaizer.

 

[PackFan2]

Kyler Frackrell is on the bubble. Looked lost and got manhandled. Wont be suprised if hes released.
Reggie Gilbert looked great when given opportunity, but somehow his snaps were limited and took Pack Org. forever to get him to active roster....
If Packers draft or sign a FA Edge rusher, expected Frackrell to step up his game or be cut.

 

[PackFan2]

Likewise I see Trevor Davis being let go for a FA or a draft pick. Horrible fielding with little returns.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here’s another question— once Pettine gets through all the tape, will he prefer the idea of Randall playing outside, in the slot, or either?

Because if he only prefers him outside, where he played his best ball last year, that may mean they look more at guys like Breeland, Carrie, Colvin, or Robey-Coleman.

If he wants Randall inside, the Packers need to think more about guys like Fuller, Johnson, Amukamara, etc.

I think that bolded statement is the key statement in who we resign, free agency and the draft on defense. What will Pettine do with our current guys and what additional players will he want, to accomplish some goals in his first year as DC? For whatever reason, I always felt a disconnect between Capers and TT. There probably wasn't, but at times it felt like TT was off in his own little world during this time of the year and went through resigns, Free Agency and the Draft without much communication with Capers and just said "Here are the guys I think you will need". I am sure that this wasn't the case, but it sure felt like it at times and I hope to see Gut and Pettine on the same page during this very critical 3-4 months of the offseason.

Hopefully, we will see the same on offense with Philbin carefully studying what he has and what he needs.

 

[Dantés]

Likewise I see Trevor Davis being let go for a FA or a draft pick. Horrible fielding with little returns.

Davis’ average PR was 3rd in the NFL.

 

[Dantés]

I think that bolded statement is the key statement in who we resign, free agency and the draft on defense. What will Pettine do with our current guys and what additional players will he want, to accomplish some goals in his first year as DC? For whatever reason, I always felt a disconnect between Capers and TT. There probably wasn't, but at times it felt like TT was off in his own little world during this time of the year and went through resigns, Free Agency and the Draft without much communication with Capers and just said "Here are the guys I think you will need". I am sure that this wasn't the case, but it sure felt like it at times and I hope to see Gut and Pettine on the same page during this very critical 3-4 months of the offseason.

Hopefully, we will see the same on offense with Philbin carefully studying what he has and what he needs.

I think there was a disconnect between Capers and football.

The bottom line to me when it comes to Dom is this: if he had just the right pieces everywhere, he could field a good unit. But if he had to adjust for the inevitable weaknesses one will almost always have on a roster, he couldn’t pull it off.

If a coordinator can’t produce more than the sum of the parts, they’re not adding value. That, to me, is what Pettine brings based on his history and what Capers couldn’t deliver.

He’s the defensive Norv Turner. Super knowledgeable in the game but too set in his system and methods to adapt to changing times and changing personnel.

 

[Dantés]

Kyler Frackrell is on the bubble. Looked lost and got manhandled. Wont be suprised if hes released.
Reggie Gilbert looked great when given opportunity, but somehow his snaps were limited and took Pack Org. forever to get him to active roster....
If Packers draft or sign a FA Edge rusher, expected Frackrell to step up his game or be cut.

I think Fackrell is gone. Matthews, Perry, and Biegel are on the roster. They’ll add a draft pick to be sure. They may sign someone. Gilbert is on the bubble, but Fackrell is done unless he makes unexpected gains.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Davis’ average PR was 3rd in the NFL.

The good news with Davis, if he continues to return punts is just that, he is good when he does actually return them. However, I think what the Packers need to work with him on are his decisions of when to call for a fair catch and when not to. Too many times he was fair catching the ball with plenty of room to make a return, or fair catching a ball to close to the goal line. Now maybe this is more on Zook and giving him the wrong instructions "fair catch no matter what" or its Davis who just needs to get better with his decisions. All that being said, he has kind of become the new Jeff Janis on the team, he hasn't shown much in the way of playing WR, so the decision to keep him will depend on if anyone else can beat him out on Special teams.

 

[Dantés]

The good news with Davis, if he continues to return punts is just that, he is good when he does actually return them. However, I think what the Packers need to work with him on are his decisions of when to call for a fair catch and when not to. Too many times he was fair catching the ball with plenty of room to make a return, or fair catching a ball to close to the goal line. Now maybe this is more on Zook and giving him the wrong instructions "fair catch no matter what" or its Davis who just needs to get better with his decisions. All that being said, he has kind of become the new Jeff Janis on the team, he hasn't shown much in the way of playing WR, so the decision to keep him will depend on if anyone else can beat him out on Special teams.

I agree with that. In fairness to him, that was the most returning he’d ever done by a long shot.

 

[OldSchool101]

I am sure that this wasn't the case, but it sure felt like it at times and I hope to see Gut and Pettine on the same page during this very critical 3-4 months of the offseason.

One thing that traditionally happens with new blood in an organization is that there is an initial and additional effort in helping them succeed that first year. I believe both of these guys are communicators and will lean on one another's experience to project forward. I fully expect Pettine will be in that film room on an overtime basis as he has already eluded to.

Hopefully, we will see the same on offense with Philbin carefully studying what he has and what he needs.

Yes, the same goes for a returning coach, IMO I think we will see a more (indirectly) diligent approach to attaining success compared to the "old system" that was in place. Right now it is all eyes on this organization and I think that pushes any complacency right out the door, particularly during this first year of the coaching "shakedown"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One thing that traditionally happens with new blood in an organization is that there is an initial and additional effort in helping them succeed that first year. I believe both of these guys are communicators and will lean on one another's experience to project forward

Yes, the same goes for a returning coach, IMO I think we will see a more (indirectly) diligent approach to attaining success compared to the "old system" that was in place. Right now it is all eyes on this organization and I think that pushes any complacency right out the door, particularly during this first year of the coaching "shakedown"

Agreed. The first word that comes to mind when I think of the Packers before all of the changes is "complacency". Because they had a fair amount of success, it felt like it was "business as usual" the last 3 or 4 years and they were just hoping for a few lucky breaks to get to the Super Bowl, without having to change much. While they weren't a bad team as all, a lot of that had to do with #12 and not getting any better had something to do with Capers and TT IMO.

 

[swhitset]

A 216 pound TE who (correct me if I'm wrong - just what I've read) isn't noted for blocking?

worse than that he is noted for very poor blocking lol.