1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Rodgers vs other clutch q/b

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,289
    Ratings:
    +4,132
    Didnt say that, you just presented the obvious most famous favre game and used that as evidence. You should have led with your best material.

    Favre has only 10 Td winning drives in the final 2 minutes in his career.

    But lets talk about those 7 drives, actually please defend one for me. I assume, as most give him credit for you are saying favre had a come back against Phi in November of 92. Favre led a whole 0 yard, 2 play drive and then Jacke kicked the 41 yrd field goal to win the game. I'm sorry but thats something to LOL over.
     
  2. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +67
    Just another example of how pinning the whole 4th quarter comeback stat on a QB alone is ridiculous. Games are won and lost as a team.

    That said, for every bad throw/decision Favre made - and there were plenty, especially from around 2001 on - the man was downright magical at times. The play/throw he made to beat the 49ers in 2009 (yeah, yeah, when he was a Viking) was absolutely sick. One of the best plays I've ever seen a QB make.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,767
    Ratings:
    +2,994
    Rocky is this same as yours? I dont think so

    He breaks down every game

    http://www.beloitdailynews.com/spor...cle_5b679792-25ef-11e3-9de3-0019bb2963f4.html

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +67
    That's the kind of article I was looking for. There have been articles like this going back a few years, since this BS about Rodgers' lack of performance in clutch first began.

    Fact is, in a lot of those losses, Rodgers might share a portion of the blame. In a few - including the Bengals game - he deserves much of the blame. But a reasonable analysis of the realities (NOT stats) of those games makes it obvious that defense and, at times, special teams have been much more to blame than #12.

    But we live in the fantasy football era. People are only concerned with stats and what the "experts" on ESPN/NFL Network are saying. But stats can be used selectively and manipulated to make any point. Take the 2011 Broncos with Tim Tebow. If you look at his personal stats, he was horrible. If you look at the Broncos' win-loss record with him as a starter, he suddenly looked pretty good. But anyone who has actually watched Tebow play knows how bad he is, regardless of what win-loss record or any other stat might say.

    At the end of the day, this attack on Rodgers' supposed lack of clutchness is ridiculous, but not surprising. We're watching the best QB in the game, and probably one of the best to ever play. There are times - as in week 2 against Washington - that Rodgers seems almost inhuman in his abilities. It's only natural that people want to look for chinks in the armor.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    No worse than last year. But worse than 2010 and prior.
     
  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,767
    Ratings:
    +2,994
    I posted an article outlining every game you are asking about
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    These statements bear repeating:

    "- In the 21 losses in the Rodgers era which came by seven points or less, Rodgers led the Packers on 18 scoring drives which tied the game or gave the Packers the lead in the 4th quarter.
    - In the majority of those games, Rodgers' last regulation drive ended with either a score or a field goal attempt. (Four misses by Mason Crosby.)"

    It is striking, and perhaps telling, that your post received little reaction as the conversation turned to yet another of the endless string of Favre comparisons and O-Line commentary.

    It is my recollection that a fair number of those 4th. quarter comeback drives were of the quick-strike variety. It would be interesting to know the time of possession on those 18 scoring drives. That way we could criticize Rodgers for scoring TOO FAST.

    There have been a fair number of snake bites in this collection of drives as well. The Crosby misses are noted. The Franklin fumble is the most more recent; without it there is no failed 4th. quarter comeback provided the D can keep the Bengals from going 50 yards. Which brings us to the Capers D not being able to hold late leads in close games. We have a defensive philosophy that leans on turnovers...when we don't get one, we tend to bend, which tends to burn clock, working to the O's detriment if the opponent manages a score.

    My main criticism of Rodgers, which I've never heard anyone note while it is has been fairly obvious over the years, is that he is regularly inaccurate with his screens and touch passes in the flats...short throws to receivers in space. These balls tend to come out low or in poor position. He's misfired often enough to a variety of backs and receivers in these situations to think it is not miscommunication. I doubt this is fixable in a 29 year old QB. You take the bad with the good, or better put, you take the bad with the great.

    Apply the eye test of Rodgers to Andy Dalton, a current media darling and fantasy league break-out bet. There is no comparison. Thank your lucky stars.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,767
    Ratings:
    +2,994

    post #53 might be what your looking for.
     
  9. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0

    I don't have the game tapes in front of me but I remember watching a good many of those failed 4th quarter comebacks. And while you are absolutely correct in your post, a caveat is in the circumstances. Aaron lets say would score with 8 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter either tying it or taking a small lead. The defense, being the challenged bunch they were, allowed the other team to score a reciprocating TD but many times there would still be time left on the clock for the Packers to produce more points.

    Didn't always pan out this way but I do remember this happening several times and although you really can't pin loads of blame on Aaron Rodgers, some of those games he just couldn't deliver when provided the final opportunity with a couple minutes left in the game.

    Either the way the current stat I'd say is skewed if you will as a result of Caper's D, Crosby, etc.

    BTW. You can call it scoring too fast or you could look at it as a game is 60 minutes long and what happens in the final
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    There you have it. I think this is my favorite, though others may prefer the AZ playoff shoot-out from the same season:

    "Week 15 at Pittsburgh. Enters the 4th quarter trailing 24-14, Rodgers directs a TD drive to make it 24-21. Pittsburgh gets a field goal to make it 27-21, and Rodgers scores another touchdown, making it 28-27 Green Bay. Pittsburgh gets another field goal to make it 30-28. Rodgers responds with a touchdown drive with 2:12 left giving the Packers a 36-30 lead. The Steelers score a touchdown on 4th and 19 with time running out."

    The defense has come under fire the last couple of years for being "soft", as in the players are soft. After watching this season's SF game, where in my opinion we out-physicaled them, the issue is not the players but the scheme, where finesse skills, opportunism and complexity in the disguises are emphasized up to the breaking point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  11. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeh the Steelers threw for over 500 yards that day. :mad: The Cardinals destroyed our defense in similar fashion about a month later.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    So now we require taking a 4th. quarter lead TWICE in the same game to qualify as elite? I'd like to see THOSE stats for Brady, Montana, Manning, et. al.
     
  13. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0

    Not every game played out as disastrously as this game did for the defense. Rodgers had a few more 'realistic' opportunities to pull out the wins. But if I were him, I'd be pretty demoralized after doing everything humanly possible to win and still be undermined as he was at times.
     
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    See, that's the thing. He's been at this for some years now and does not buckle under to adversity. He's had about one substandard game per season, with the perfunctory "I played poorly" postscript, generally followed by high yardage, high scoring performances. I expect no less against Detroit. It's time for the D to step up if this team has championship pretensions.

    As a side note, here's an update on the "Jennings watch". 11 catches on 19 targets for a 58% completion rate. 160 yards. 0 TDs. He's perfectly healthy from what I can tell. His numbers project to 59 catches on 101 targets for 853 yds. and 0 TDs. Wasn't he the guy that boasted the receivers made the QB in GB, and would do so again in Minnesota?

    There is a lesson here for those who questioned Rodgers leadership based on Jennings comments and similar ones from Driver: never side with knuckleheads, especially after they've been fired, and particularly when they're wide receivers or cover corners...they can be a particularly mercurial lot. We would not have thought that of Jennings and Driver...I guess their true natures are coming out now that they've been deprogrammed from the Packer "brainwashing".
     
  15. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,531
    Ratings:
    +880
    Reading that game-by-game summary of all the close losses over these past years got me upset, as if I was reliving all of them.

    One thing for sure: We shouldn't be talking about Rodgers being "un-clutch", rather it is Crosby. Sheesh, has he EVER made a FG for the win? Probably yes, but he sure has missed a bunch...
     
  16. profile_removed

    profile_removed Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    608
    Ratings:
    +20
    Here's the thing. In 2010 Packers won the Superbowl. Final Packers drive they were leading 28-25. TD ices it, Field Goal leaves it up to the D (Which even then other than T/Os was abysmal). Aaron marches the team down the field, and if I'm remembering correctly (and maybe I'm not) we have a 1st and goal inside the 5. Aaron gets 3, leaving Rothlesberger time to win the game. Defense steps up big especially on the final 2 plays, and that's what ices the game, not Aaron! Final Score after FG 31-25. Final score after a would be TD at least 34-25 if not 35-25
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    I believe the answer is "once". I'm not being snide, by the way
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    As predicted, it was only a matter of time before somebody noted that Rodgers leaves too much time on the clock with those 4th. quarter scoring drives. ;) I guess he should have stretched out that 10 play, 75 yard, 5:27 drive for a couple more minutes. By the way, the final series of the FG drive started with first and goal at the 8, as if that matters.

    The better question might be, "why were 3 passing plays called in the final series before the FG?" 3 runs would have burned PIT's last timeout, burned the 2 minute warning TO, and then 40 more seconds off the clock, leaving PIT with about 1:20 and no TOs while having to go the length of the field. This play calling was either a vote of no confidence for the defense or poor clock management, choose your poison.

    In any case, I think when you kick off with 2:07 on the clock with a 6 point lead and the opponent having 1 timeout remaining you should expect the defense to prevent a TD a good majority of the time, SB or otherwise, whether it's Brady or anybody else.

    Or maybe the two-time Superbowl winning QB who completed a game winning TD pass in SB XLIII with 35 seconds on the clock is the guy who is "un-clutch".

    Further, even if you don't like my reasoning, one instance is anecdotal, SB or otherwise. I think, and I'm just guessing here, we ought to be looking at Rodgers' and Capers' entire body of work in this kind of discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    Yeah, it kinda pisses me off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,531
    Ratings:
    +880
    Rodgers was MVP in that game. He played insanely well that day. 3TDs, no picks, 300+ yards...

    And you don't like how it ended?

    You and Bus. Peas in a pod.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,823
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    The way Rodgers-to-Jennings exploited Polamalu's bum achilles was masterful.
     
  22. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,934
    Ratings:
    +2,265
    Superb post. And wasn`t it a bat down on the 4th down by Tramon Williams that sealed it for us ???

    I was one of those that bitched about Rodgers last week, but we`ve moved on, and I`m no longer pissed about it. Bring on the Lions and lets hoped we learned from last weeks mistakes.
     
  23. RockyRaccoon

    RockyRaccoon Day Tripper

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +67
    Wait. The 2010 D was "abysmal"? Are you freaking kidding me? :confused:

    The 2010 D was 5th in yards allowed and 2nd in points allowed, which is the only defensive stat that really matters. They allowed 1/2 a point per game more than the #1 Steelers D. They allowed only 22 TDs, which I believe was second best to the Steelers' 20. And they were clutch on the playoff run.

    As for Rodgers, his bullet to Jennings to convert 3rd and long was one of the biggest plays in that game. Then there was the big play to Jones to set up the first-and-goal. Then he had the ball at the 8 against the league's stingiest D. So he didn't get TD. So what? He led a 70-yard scoring drive that forced the Steelers to score a touchdown.

    Which, by the way, they would have to do against the most difficult defense to score on not named the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    So, Rodgers isn't clutch because he goes 70 yards in crunch time and only gets a field goal. And the defense in 2010 was abysmal. Bus, is that you? SMFH.... :rolleyes:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +226
    Exactly, except for the part where I never said or felt that. You can do better. Truth > made up sh%t
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  25. gatorpack

    gatorpack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    677
    Ratings:
    +153
    That says it all. Aaron shouldn't have to score 30 pts to win most games. It seems that if a team really needs a score our d has a tough time getting the stop. So all the pressure is on Rodgers in the 4th. when the other team knows we are going to pass and they get to tee off our sorry oline and pressure Rodgers even more. Give us a top 15 oline and a top 12 D and Rodgers will end with more superbowls than Brady.
     

Share This Page