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Rodgers' Leadership Called Into Question Again

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Ball Zapper!
     
  2. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    It's laughable that you said "Ron Wolf, Harlan, AND Mike Holmgren" built the franchise when it was clearly Favre. Nobody ask those guys to do commercials or lots of interviews like Brett Favre. Plus, from what I remember, GM's and owners do not play on the field. The reason people liked GB Packers so much during the 90s/00s was NOT because of the owner, GM, or coach. Brett Favre was clearly the bigger picture for that franchise.

    I never heard anyone say:

    "ZOMG MIKE HOLMGREN IS COACHING THE PACKERS, CAN'T WAIT TO GET HIS AUTOGRAPH. MAN, THIS GUY IS LIKE PHIL JACKSON OF THE NFL."

    I recall that it was more like:

    "Brett Favre: won 1 SB, won 2 NFC Championship games (out of 3 appearances for GB), 3 MVPS. We watch GB Packers because Brett is so fun to watch, and his personality is hilarious."

    I smell a LOT of Rodgers bias in your analysis (there are a bunch of "AR fans" in this thread too). Yeah, it's easy to compare AR to Brett Favre where it's completely unfair because AR has played way LESS games than Favre. I am pretty sure if AR were to play as much Favre, his TD-INT ratio would be close.

    ALSO, Rodgers also got a head start in his career rather than Favre. He got to back up Brett Favre for 3 solid years. This means AR got to analyze/improve his skill set, integrate into the offensive system smoothly, and get full support from the staff. Favre was just thrown into his first game once the guy before him got injured. There is a HUGE age difference between when Favre started and when AR started.

    I am not even going to pretend to say that the defenses NOW were as good as in the 1990s. Quite frankly, the defenses now aren't very good compared back then. So let me get this right...Aaron Rodgers gets to play in the league where a passing offense is favored and CB's can barely touch WR's without getting criticized for throwing interceptions? Not only that, but AR has WAY BETTER receivers than during Favre's entire tenure in GB. Don't even try to argue me on this point because Antonio Freeman is not like Greg Jennings. Bubba Franks is not even like Jermichael Finely.

    Oh, and BTW, was it Favre's fault for letting the infamous "4th and 26" to be converted? I remember that the 2003 Packers defense allowed the Eagles to come back into that game to win. It's kind of funny that Favre would have been to ANOTHER NFC championship game if the Eagles never converted on that drive.

    You also forgot about Al Harris getting burned all day long by Plaxico Burress (11 cathes for 154 yards, which ultimately set the NY Giants to get 2 easy rushing touchdowns) in the 2007 NFC Championship game.

    Lol, so...in reality BF should be 3-0 in NFC Championship games (NOT including the 2009 Vikings championship where AP fumbled it multiple times).

    Um...so how many championship games has Aaron Rodgers gotten to? Right...only one. He was REALLY bad in that game too by throwing 0 TD's and 2 INT's in that game. The defense had to save AR or else we wouldn't be talking about him right now...
     
  3. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Be straight with me. Are you actually a Vikings fan? Because that's where Favre went, where Favre retired. This franchise moved on. BTW who acquired Favre? Last time I checked teams were bigger than QB.

    So why did we keep watching after he went to the Jets?

    I smell a LOT of bitterness in yours, and that's coming from one of the bigger Brett fans here. Back to ratio, the numbers suggest otherwise.

    Knowing what not to do DOES help. Though when you trade a 1st round pick for a guy you can expect he's going to start eventually.

    And we have nobody close to Ahman Green or Reggie White today. Didn't Favre play with Jennings Driver Jones and Sharpe?

    Because Defenses were so much better back then, or at least that's what you said.

    To quote you again:

    With the way the rules are bent nowadays and the plethora of weapons, it's not too far of a stretch to say that AR could wind up with a better career than Favre. I mean, if you think his INT-TD ratio will could up around the same, MVPs, SB, championships, all of those are also in reach.

    Stop trying to sound so wounded. It's unbecoming.

    I'll let somebody else explain why you're wrong in more intelligent terms than I bothered to.
     
  4. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    It's humorous and helps a lot when someone on the other side of an argument posts foolishness, so thanks for that. And hey, if you want to continue to idolize someone who became a traitor to the franchise you purport to be a fan of, have at it. You must be proud of the maturity Favre displayed in New York, both in lying to the Jets franchise and then disgracing his wife and family publically. But hey, wear that Favre jersey proudly, no matter the color.
    Without Wolf to rescue him from obscurity and without Holmgren to train him you may never have heard of him. And without Harlan, neither would have ended up in Green Bay. Or don’t you even know the history of your hero or the Packers? Favre was incredibly popular but he didn’t build the franchise. It was there long before him and will be long after. Players don’t build franchises, they are acquired by men who build them.
    Wrong again. As I posted before, like many Favre fans you seem to have trouble with facts. When you posted Rodgers fumbled a lot, I compared his stats (5 years of starting) to Favre’s first 5 years of starting. I am biased in favor of Rodgers based upon facts (and the fact Rodgers hasn’t betrayed the Packers and Favre did). Rodgers will never be as foolishly careless with the ball as Favre was.


    In both of those games, Favre came onto the field in OT with decent field position needing only to lead a drive into FG range to give his team a chance to win and continue in the playoffs. In the former, he threw up a “pass” that would have embarrassed a high school QB, let alone a pro. There was no excuse for that incredibly stupid pass at that incredibly crucial moment. In the latter, Favre ignored a wide open Ryan Grant across the middle to throw the “more exciting” pass that ended the Packers season. On each play only one player was at fault. And you can post millions of words and they won’t change those facts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    And the thread de-railment is nearly complete ..., I smell a thread merge ...?
     
  6. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    No, I am not a Vikings fan. It's pretty hypocritical that you say "teams are bigger than the QB" when fans like you and the media drink the Kool-aid of giving big name quarterbacks huge contracts consisting of millions of dollars. Most fans think Rodgers deserves a huge contract like Brady, Brees, and Manning. So, don't tell me Rodgers is just like any other regular Packers player when the whole organization is invested into this guy. He is SO overrated. The Packers won't make the playoffs next year BECAUSE of Aaron Rodgers.

    A lot of NON-packer fans stopped watching the GB Packers in the 2008 because Brett Favre left. Not everyone liked MM and TT's decision...

    The argument where you say that Brett Favre played with Jennings, Jones, Driver, and Sharpe is flawed. Brett Favre was playing with INEXPERIENCED AND A YOUNG Greg Jennings. He made Jennings to be the WR where he is today. Sharpe got injured way too early in his career, and Jones was just a rookie when Favre was playing in his final year at GB. ALSO, Driver was the only good long term receiver Favre could rely on.

    BTW, Rodgers has been in his first 4 post seasons and only has appeared in 1 NFC Championship game. Opposed to Favre's 3 Championship appearances in 1995, 1996, and 1997.

    Rodgers is simply not that good in the playoffs in comparison to Favre. Lol, I am not wounded...just stating the facts that you guys cannot handle.
     
  7. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    Uh...how am I idolizing someone when I am posting hard facts? It seems to me you are getting annoyed because Rodgers is just as not good as Brett Favre. Lol, I'm not a big Favre or Rodgers fan anyway. I can't stand when people buy into the idea of how "good" Rodgers is...when he really is NOT that good.

    Sure, the Packers team technically has been there BEFORE and AFTER Favre, but it doesn't change the fact that the Packers expanded in the economic market because of Brett Favre's play. Nobody would have cared as much if BF didn't play for the Packers because we would be like the small market Jacksonville Jaguars team. Thanks to Favre's great play, we don't have small high school football audience attendance at GB games anymore.

    You can compare the stats of the first 5 years of Rodgers opposed to 5 years of Favre BUT the flaw is that you cannot compare them. Both Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre were in two totally DIFFERENT leagues where the NFL rules to play the game were different. Aaron Rodgers stats are HUGELY inflated because CB's cannot touch WR'S nowadays. I am positive his stats would decrease SIGNIFICANTLY he played during the mid-1990s (where Favre's stats peaked and no one matched his stats during that time, quite incredible actually).

    Regardless how you look at the 2003 NFC GB-PHI Divisional and 2007 NFC GB-NYG Championship game, BF does NOT share much blame for those losses. He established the leads in both of those games, but it was the DEFENSE's fault for letting those teams to come back into the game (4th and 26). Favre took a risk, so what? The GB defense's of those times were much to blame allowing all those TD's.

    So don't give me that crap!
     
  8. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I'm not buying into your "I'm not that big a fan of Favre anyway" - your posts contradict that.
    That was Favre's attitude too and why the Packers only won one title with him at QB. That's about as foolish as it gets. Favre throws stupid INTs which prevent the team he plays for from advancing to the Super Bowl and your response is "so what?". Since the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal of every team (even you have to get that), that's as big a deal as there is in the NFL. And as I posted no one can deny that Favre walked onto the field twice in OT in the playoffs with decent field position and his stupid INTs ended both of the Packers' seasons. No matter what happened in either game before that, Favre still had the ball in his hands with a chance to win it and gave both games away. Too bad if you consider that "crap" but both are facts that can't be refuted. He also blew the Vikings chances - hey I'll bet you were rooting for the Vikings in that game - and how nice it was to see Favre screw another team for a change!


    Wolf and Harlan built a team along with Shurmer as DC. As I posted before, the '96 D was fantastic. They would have succeeded whether or not Favre came to Green Bay. Holmgren excelled at grooming QBs - they had a "QB factory" going. The Packers were never going to be Jacksonville-like in attendance during that resurgence begun by Harlan's re-organization.

    Aaron Rodgers has the highest regular season QB rating of any QB in the history of the league as well as the highest rating in the playoffs. Since you seem to struggle evaluating facts, that means he stands with the best of the current era of QBs who all play under current rules. And you have no idea how Rodgers would have done in the previous decade. Only one thing is certain: He wouldn't have taken the idiotic chances Favre did.

    Since I'm repeating the same facts over and over and you don't seem to be able to process facts, I'm done with you on this thread. Here's a post I wrote in February of 2011 on a more appropriate thread for this discussion:
    http://www.packerforum.com/threads/retiring-favres-4.22286/page-3#post-301963
     
  9. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    Aaron Rodgers has a high regular season QB Rating because he does NOT take risks when his team is losing. That's why it's so good, because he won't go on his hands and knees to get dirty just to protect his stats. Plus, his QB rating is worthless in the playoffs if you can't produce SB/Championship wins...

    You are saying I AM the one not processing facts? Good joke...you are just too into Aaron Rodgers to see his true flaws which will be the down fall of the Packers this upcoming season.

    See ya Diva attitude AR fans.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I don't know anybody who wouldn't put Rodgers in the same class as Brady, Brees, and Manning, and the market value of a QB is a in fact millions of dollars. Love how you blame Favre's defense in your earlier posts, but yet a defense that one year was statistically worse had nothing to do with Rodger's failures. You kinda can't have it both ways, especially when you consider the scores.

    Took me a year to warm up to Rodgers. I was ticked off we got rid of Favre, but the kid showed promise.

    I'll agree that Brett helped develop Greg.

    I'll give you any FA QB this year, any QB in the draft this year, pick one that you would take over Rodgers.
     
  11. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    Geno Smith: he is mobile and can put up monster numbers. Also he completed 71.6% of his passes this season and threw for 42 TD's and only 6 interceptions. He reminds me of Kaepernick/Wilson, he can create massive rush yards out of nothing.

    Trade Aaron Rodgers for a LOT of draft picks. The team would save a lot of money and could build a defensive juggernaut. Drafting a heir apparent to Rodgers would be good, because A-Rod will be 30 this year.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  12. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    As a WVU fan, I can honestly say that's a bad idea. Geno struggles with a lot of the same issues as AR in the passing game, but the main difference is in the pocket. Geno NEEDS space to throw, much like Brady and Ryan. He also lacks nuance in his pocket manipulation. Geno doesn't like to run so your Kaep/Wilson analysis is off too
     
  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Geno Smith sucks. I saw him here in Texas Tech this season... a team never accused of playing great defense.
    Geno is a bust waiting to happen.
    I know everyone's enamored with the athletic QB like RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick, but Geno Smith will be closer to Akili Smith IMO.

    And Rodgers is 29.... he's like 6, 7, 8 years younger than Manning, Brady, Brees.... plenty of good years left if he doesn't get hurt like Nick Collins.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think this was the point I was trying to make the other day when I said on another forum about Aaron Rodgers not quite being the superstar he has been built up as. I REALLY like the guy. I think he showed great class through the Favre business, but after getting the MVP vote, I wondered if it kind of went to his head and he began to think he was above reproach ?? As much as the defense has failed us in the last two season playoffs, some of the blame lies with the offence and Mr Rodgers !!
    I THINK he can and will be the team leader and superstar of the future, but to me, he hasn`t quite got there yet, and I think he needs to look at HIMSELF. Snide digs at the press just make him look like a petulant child ! he`s better than that.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How many NFCG did Brett go to AFTER 97?

    2

    and how many of those ended on an int that he tossed

    2


    Favre had how many multiple int games? He once tossed 6 in one game and Brett is BETTER?
     
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  16. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    WHAT ??? What use is the point of trading Aaron Rodgers for lots of draft picks to build a "Defensive Juggernaut" ?

    Rodgers is the core of the team !!! thats like saying sell your Porshe, and you can get a set of alloy wheels for it !
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Driver on the radio yesterday in New Orleans...

    He talked about his retirement, but said more than once...I am here to talk about a charity he is working with AND I am here to support Rodgers for air player of the year

    If there was any doubt of how Rodgers is perceived in the locker room, DD supporting him should answer any questions
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Favre didnt build it...He was part of it..It is an insult to Reggie, Sean, Bennett, Dorsey, Newhouse and the rest to say Brett did it all by himself.

    Brett was VERY VERY good in the middle 90's but once Mike left his production dropped and never got close to the SB again...UNTIL he tossed that int in 07....Then he got everything he wanted in Minny..and yet he did SAME thing, tossed int

    Look around the NFL or any other sport--- most coaches or GMs do not get asked to do a commercial.Your arguments just make no sense..
     
  19. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    Lol, I'm not here to argue, but BF talent wise was transcendent among other QB's. Lol, at the age of 40 something he threw 30 TD's to 7 INT's in 2009, which is really good. That goes to show you he wasted a lot of talent in the early 00's (2003 he was beast that year, gotta admit).

    The reason why his production dropped was because Rhodes/Sherman were AWFUL at disciplining Favre. No disrespect to the guys you mentioned above...they were a big part of the mid-1990s also.
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And the prev 4 seasons he averaged 22 tds and 21 ints per season

    He WAS GREAT in the 90's but from 99 on he had average seasons, with a few like in 2009 tossed in once and a while.


    But lets get back...forgot this was about Rodgers leadership

    Driver on the radio yesterday in New Orleans...

    He talked about his retirement, but said more than once...I am here to talk about a charity he is working with AND I am here to support Rodgers for air player of the year

    If there was any doubt of how Rodgers is perceived in the locker room, DD supporting him should answer any questions....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    I agree with you on Favre

    DD talking about Rodgers doesn't really say how Rodgers is perceived in the locker room though. DD has always been a stand up guy and is going to support his team and charity and make it about everyone else but him, that's what he has always done.

    We have heard people on both sides the past years saying things about Rodgers and I bet the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    I think Rodgers has a chance to be the best QB to ever play the game but I am not sure at this point if he will ever garner the respect that a Peyton Manning does or have the aura of a Tom Brady. Time will tell and we are lucky to have such a great QB because you can draft the best players for the past 10 years (arizona cardinals statistically have had the best drafts for the past decade) and still not do squat without a QB.
     
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    If Driver is deflecting questions from him to Rodgers, it shows me he respects Rodgers and likes him..

    Locker room could be any place outside of the stadium, and not in the literal locker room

    That is how I see it and others may not and thats fine
     
  23. fatalflaw

    fatalflaw Cheesehead

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    Is it too late to get Flynn back???
     
  24. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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  25. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Reggie has been quoted for saying; that without Favre he (Reggie) probably would never have come to Green Bay ...

    - Just saying ..., because I know you Can do better LTF ... :lol:
     

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