bozz_2006
Cheesehead
Ball Zapper!
Favre didn’t build the franchise. Harlan, Wolf and Holmgren re-built it but it’s common for “Favre-first” fans like yourself to believe Favre built it. You may not remember but Holmgren came close to replacing your hero with Mark Brunell. We can’t go back in time but with the historically good defense the ’96 Packers had I’d like their chances. That Packers defense finished first in scoring D that season and while they weren’t better than the ’85 Bears D, they surrendered fewer TDs (19 vs. 22) in the regular season.
Your Favre colored glasses apparently are blurring your perception. Packers fans, let alone “people” criticize Rodgers all the time, mostly for holding the ball too long. And if you hadn’t noticed, the subject of this thread is regarding criticism of Rodgers. BTW, love your excuse making for Favre: No, an INT doesn’t equal a punt. Only an apologist for the NFL’s most prolific thrower of interceptions would attempt such a foolish comparison or advocate for Rodgers to throw more INTs. Here’s the difference: It’s such an obvious point it shouldn’t have to be made but it is possible to overcome a sack and continue a series.
Thankfully unlike Favre, Rodgers is careful with the ball, both in the pocket and throwing it. Their TD INT ratios are in a post above. Perhaps you didn’t notice but not only is Rodgers’ INT ratio much lower than Favre’s, his TD ratio is higher. But it’s not surprising you don’t get that. One of the characteristics of Favre fans is they’re usually not too good with facts. Like posting that Rodgers hanging onto the ball results in more fumbles. As in most statistical categories (that don’t reflect longevity), Rodgers is significantly better than Favre: According to nfl.com during Favre’s first five years starting for the Packers he fumbled the ball 52 times and lost 21 fumbles. During Rodgers five seasons starting he’s fumbled 33 times, losing 12. I challenge you to find any five-year period in which Favre lost 12 or fewer fumbles.
One of the few things you got right is it is indeed a team game. Think of Favre’s teammates while they witnessed his foolish recklessness in throwing 6 INTs in a playoff game. Or when he threw that embarrassing game ending “punt of a throw” in OT against the Eagles. Or when he threw the game ending INT in Lambeau against the Giants while a wide open Ryan Grant was right in front of him.
Be straight with me. Are you actually a Vikings fan? Because that's where Favre went, where Favre retired. This franchise moved on. BTW who acquired Favre? Last time I checked teams were bigger than QB.It's laughable that you said "Ron Wolf, Harlan, AND Mike Holmgren" built the franchise when it was clearly Favre. Nobody ask those guys to do commercials or lots of interviews like Brett Favre. Plus, from what I remember, GM's and owners do not play on the field. The reason people liked GB Packers so much during the 90s/00s was NOT because of the owner, GM, or coach. Brett Favre was clearly the bigger picture for that franchise.
So why did we keep watching after he went to the Jets?I never heard anyone say:
"ZOMG MIKE HOLMGREN IS COACHING THE PACKERS, CAN'T WAIT TO GET HIS AUTOGRAPH. MAN, THIS GUY IS LIKE PHIL JACKSON OF THE NFL."
I recall that it was more like:
"Brett Favre: won 1 SB, won 2 NFC Championship games (out of 3 appearances for GB), 3 MVPS. We watch GB Packers because Brett is so fun to watch, and his personality is hilarious."
I smell a LOT of bitterness in yours, and that's coming from one of the bigger Brett fans here. Back to ratio, the numbers suggest otherwise.I smell a LOT of Rodgers bias in your analysis (there are a bunch of "AR fans" in this thread too). Yeah, it's easy to compare AR to Brett Favre where it's completely unfair because AR has played way LESS games than Favre. I am pretty sure if AR were to play as much Favre, his TD-INT ratio would be close.
Knowing what not to do DOES help. Though when you trade a 1st round pick for a guy you can expect he's going to start eventually.ALSO, Rodgers also got a head start in his career rather than Favre. He got to back up Brett Favre for 3 solid years. This means AR got to analyze/improve his skill set, integrate into the offensive system smoothly, and get full support from the staff. Favre was just thrown into his first game once the guy before him got injured. There is a HUGE age difference between when Favre started and when AR started.
And we have nobody close to Ahman Green or Reggie White today. Didn't Favre play with Jennings Driver Jones and Sharpe?I am not even going to pretend to say that the defenses NOW were as good as in the 1990s. Quite frankly, the defenses now aren't very good compared back then. So let me get this right...Aaron Rodgers gets to play in the league where a passing offense is favored and CB's can barely touch WR's without getting criticized for throwing interceptions? Not only that, but AR has WAY BETTER receivers than during Favre's entire tenure in GB. Don't even try to argue me on this point because Antonio Freeman is not like Greg Jennings. Bubba Franks is not even like Jermichael Finely.
Because Defenses were so much better back then, or at least that's what you said.Oh, and BTW, was it Favre's fault for letting the infamous "4th and 26" to be converted? I remember that the 2003 Packers defense allowed the Eagles to come back into that game to win. It's kind of funny that Favre would have been to ANOTHER NFC championship game if the Eagles never converted on that drive.
You also forgot about Al Harris getting burned all day long by Plaxico Burress (11 cathes for 154 yards, which ultimately set the NY Giants to get 2 easy rushing touchdowns) in the 2007 NFC Championship game.
To quote you again:Lol, so...in reality BF should be 3-0 in NFC Championship games (NOT including the 2009 Vikings championship where AP fumbled it multiple times).
Um...so how many championship games has Aaron Rodgers gotten to? Right...only one. He was REALLY bad in that game too by throwing 0 TD's and 2 INT's in that game. The defense had to save AR or else we wouldn't be talking about him right now...
With the way the rules are bent nowadays and the plethora of weapons, it's not too far of a stretch to say that AR could wind up with a better career than Favre. I mean, if you think his INT-TD ratio will could up around the same, MVPs,Yeah, it's easy to compare AR to Brett Favre where it's completely unfair because AR has played way [FEWER] games than Favre.
Without Wolf to rescue him from obscurity and without Holmgren to train him you may never have heard of him. And without Harlan, neither would have ended up in Green Bay. Or don’t you even know the history of your hero or the Packers? Favre was incredibly popular but he didn’t build the franchise. It was there long before him and will be long after. Players don’t build franchises, they are acquired by men who build them.It's laughable that you said "Ron Wolf, Harlan, AND Mike Holmgren" built the franchise when it was clearly Favre.
Wrong again. As I posted before, like many Favre fans you seem to have trouble with facts. When you posted Rodgers fumbled a lot, I compared his stats (5 years of starting) to Favre’s first 5 years of starting. I am biased in favor of Rodgers based upon facts (and the fact Rodgers hasn’t betrayed the Packers and Favre did). Rodgers will never be as foolishly careless with the ball as Favre was.I smell a LOT of Rodgers bias in your analysis (there are a bunch of "AR fans" in this thread too). Yeah, it's easy to compare AR to Brett Favre where it's completely unfair because AR has played way LESS games than Favre. I am pretty sure if AR were to play as much Favre, his TD-INT ratio would be close.
Oh, and BTW, was it Favre's fault for letting the infamous "4th and 26" to be converted? ... you also forgot about Al Harris getting burned all day long by Plaxico Burress (11 cathes for 154 yards, which ultimately set the NY Giants to get 2 easy rushing touchdowns) in the 2007 NFC Championship game.
Be straight with me. Are you actually a Vikings fan? Because that's where Favre went, where Favre retired. This franchise moved on. BTW who acquired Favre? Last time I checked teams were bigger than QB.
So why did we keep watching after he went to the Jets?
I smell a LOT of bitterness in yours, and that's coming from one of the bigger Brett fans here. Back to ratio, the numbers suggest otherwise.
Knowing what not to do DOES help. Though when you trade a 1st round pick for a guy you can expect he's going to start eventually.
And we have nobody close to Ahman Green or Reggie White today. Didn't Favre play with Jennings Driver Jones and Sharpe?
Because Defenses were so much better back then, or at least that's what you said.
To quote you again:
With the way the rules are bent nowadays and the plethora of weapons, it's not too far of a stretch to say that AR could wind up with a better career than Favre. I mean, if you think his INT-TD ratio will could up around the same, MVPs,SB, championships, all of those are also in reach.
Stop trying to sound so wounded. It's unbecoming.
I'll let somebody else explain why you're wrong in more intelligent terms than I bothered to.
It's humorous and helps a lot when someone on the other side of an argument posts foolishness, so thanks for that. And hey, if you want to continue to idolize someone who became a traitor to the franchise you purport to be a fan of, have at it. You must be proud of the maturity Favre displayed in New York, both in lying to the Jets franchise and then disgracing his wife and family publically. But hey, wear that Favre jersey proudly, no matter the color. Without Wolf to rescue him from obscurity and without Holmgren to train him you may never have heard of him. And without Harlan, neither would have ended up in Green Bay. Or don’t you even know the history of your hero or the Packers? Favre was incredibly popular but he didn’t build the franchise. It was there long before him and will be long after. Players don’t build franchises, they are acquired by men who build them. Wrong again. As I posted before, like many Favre fans you seem to have trouble with facts. When you posted Rodgers fumbled a lot, I compared his stats (5 years of starting) to Favre’s first 5 years of starting. I am biased in favor of Rodgers based upon facts (and the fact Rodgers hasn’t betrayed the Packers and Favre did). Rodgers will never be as foolishly careless with the ball as Favre was.
In both of those games, Favre came onto the field in OT with decent field position needing only to lead a drive into FG range to give his team a chance to win and continue in the playoffs. In the former, he threw up a “pass” that would have embarrassed a high school QB, let alone a pro. There was no excuse for that incredibly stupid pass at that incredibly crucial moment. In the latter, Favre ignored a wide open Ryan Grant across the middle to throw the “more exciting” pass that ended the Packers season. On each play only one player was at fault. And you can post millions of words and they won’t change those facts.
That was Favre's attitude too and why the Packers only won one title with him at QB. That's about as foolish as it gets. Favre throws stupid INTs which prevent the team he plays for from advancing to the Super Bowl and your response is "so what?". Since the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal of every team (even you have to get that), that's as big a deal as there is in the NFL. And as I posted no one can deny that Favre walked onto the field twice in OT in the playoffs with decent field position and his stupid INTs ended both of the Packers' seasons. No matter what happened in either game before that, Favre still had the ball in his hands with a chance to win it and gave both games away. Too bad if you consider that "crap" but both are facts that can't be refuted. He also blew the Vikings chances - hey I'll bet you were rooting for the Vikings in that game - and how nice it was to see Favre screw another team for a change!Favre took a risk, so what?
I'm not buying into your "I'm not that big a fan of Favre anyway" - your posts contradict that.That was Favre's attitude too and why the Packers only won one title with him at QB. That's about as foolish as it gets. Favre throws stupid INTs which prevent the team he plays for from advancing to the Super Bowl and your response is "so what?". Since the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal of every team (even you have to get that), that's as big a deal as there is in the NFL. And as I posted no one can deny that Favre walked onto the field twice in OT in the playoffs with decent field position and his stupid INTs ended both of the Packers' seasons. No matter what happened in either game before that, Favre still had the ball in his hands with a chance to win it and gave both games away. Too bad if you consider that "crap" but both are facts that can't be refuted. He also blew the Vikings chances - hey I'll bet you were rooting for the Vikings in that game - and how nice it was to see Favre screw another team for a change!
Wolf and Harlan built a team along with Shurmer as DC. As I posted before, the '96 D was fantastic. They would have succeeded whether or not Favre came to Green Bay. Holmgren excelled at grooming QBs - they had a "QB factory" going. The Packers were never going to be Jacksonville-like in attendance during that resurgence begun by Harlan's re-organization.
Aaron Rodgers has the highest regular season QB rating of any QB in the history of the league as well as the highest rating in the playoffs. Since you seem to struggle evaluating facts, that means he stands with the best of the current era of QBs who all play under current rules. And you have no idea how Rodgers would have done in the previous decade. Only one thing is certain: He wouldn't have taken the idiotic chances Favre did.
Since I'm repeating the same facts over and over and you don't seem to be able to process facts, I'm done with you on this thread. Here's a post I wrote in February of 2011 on a more appropriate thread for this discussion:
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/retiring-favres-4.22286/page-3#post-301963
I don't know anybody who wouldn't put Rodgers in the same class as Brady, Brees, and Manning, and the market value of a QB is a in fact millions of dollars. Love how you blame Favre's defense in your earlier posts, but yet a defense that one year was statistically worse had nothing to do with Rodger's failures. You kinda can't have it both ways, especially when you consider the scores.No, I am not a Vikings fan. It's pretty hypocritical that you say "teams are bigger than the QB" when fans like you and the media drink the Kool-aid of giving big name quarterbacks huge contracts consisting of millions of dollars. Most fans think Rodgers deserves a huge contract like Brady, Brees, and Manning. So, don't tell me Rodgers is just like any other regular Packers player when the whole organization is invested into this guy. He is SO overrated. The Packers won't make the playoffs next year BECAUSE of Aaron Rodgers.
A lot of NON-packer fans stopped watching the GB Packers in the 2008 because Brett Favre left. Not everyone liked MM and TT's decision...
The argument where you say that Brett Favre played with Jennings, Jones, Driver, and Sharpe is flawed. Brett Favre was playing with INEXPERIENCED AND A YOUNG Greg Jennings. He made Jennings to be the WR where he is today. Sharpe got injured way too early in his career, and Jones was just a rookie when Favre was playing in his final year at GB. ALSO, Driver was the only good long term receiver Favre could rely on.
BTW, Rodgers has been in his first 4 post seasons and only has appeared in 1 NFC Championship game. Opposed to Favre's 3 Championship appearances in 1995, 1996, and 1997.
Rodgers is simply not that good in the playoffs in comparison to Favre. Lol, I am not wounded...just stating the facts that you guys cannot handle.
I don't know anybody who wouldn't put Rodgers in the same class as Brady, Brees, and Manning, and the market value of a QB is a in fact millions of dollars. Love how you blame Favre's defense in your earlier posts, but yet a defense that one year was statistically worse had nothing to do with Rodger's failures. You kinda can't have it both ways, especially when you consider the scores.
Took me a year to warm up to Rodgers. I was ticked off we got rid of Favre, but the kid showed promise.
I'll agree that Brett helped develop Greg.
I'll give you any FA QB this year, any QB in the draft this year, pick one that you would take over Rodgers.
As a WVU fan, I can honestly say that's a bad idea. Geno struggles with a lot of the same issues as AR in the passing game, but the main difference is in the pocket. Geno NEEDS space to throw, much like Brady and Ryan. He also lacks nuance in his pocket manipulation. Geno doesn't like to run so your Kaep/Wilson analysis is off tooGeno Smith: he is mobile and can put up monster numbers. Also he completed 71.6% of his passes this season and threw for 42 TD's and only 6 interceptions. He reminds me of Kaepernick/Wilson, he can create massive rush yards out of nothing.
Trade Aaron Rodgers for a LOT of draft picks. The team would save a lot of money and could build a defensive juggernaut. Drafting a heir apparent to Rodgers would be good, because A-Rod will be 30 this year.
Geno Smith sucks. I saw him here in Texas Tech this season... a team never accused of playing great defense.Geno Smith: he is mobile and can put up monster numbers. Also he completed 71.6% of his passes this season and threw for 42 TD's and only 6 interceptions. He reminds me of Kaepernick/Wilson, he can create massive rush yards out of nothing.
Trade Aaron Rodgers for a LOT of draft picks. The team would save a lot of money and could build a defensive juggernaut. Drafting a heir apparent to Rodgers would be good, because A-Rod will be 30 this year.
Nobody made him play football, he could have pursued a legal career or being a doctor. Im sorry but I DO NOT feel bad for a man who cannot take 5 seconds out of his life to sign an autograph for a 5 year old. But can't smooze with a ***** blonde who is all over him for 10 minutes. He has his own home to go to for peace, along with the private clubs and the money to fund jets to take him anywhere in the world. Poor Aaron Rodgers...
His celebrity status works both ways and he has no problem using the woman appeal side of it, but is too busy for a kid... Arod is the man at quarterback, but there is no question from my experiences with him that he isnt nearly role model for young childern outside of the football field.
A lot of NON-packer fans stopped watching the GB Packers in the 2008 because Brett Favre left. Not everyone liked MM and TT's decision...
BTW, Rodgers has been in his first 4 post seasons and only has appeared in 1 NFC Championship game. Opposed to Favre's 3 Championship appearances in 1995, 1996, and 1997.
Rodgers is simply not that good in the playoffs in comparison to Favre. Lol, I am not wounded...just stating the facts that you guys cannot handle.
Geno Smith: he is mobile and can put up monster numbers. Also he completed 71.6% of his passes this season and threw for 42 TD's and only 6 interceptions. He reminds me of Kaepernick/Wilson, he can create massive rush yards out of nothing.
Trade Aaron Rodgers for a LOT of draft picks. The team would save a lot of money and could build a defensive juggernaut. Drafting a heir apparent to Rodgers would be good, because A-Rod will be 30 this year.
It's laughable that you said "Ron Wolf, Harlan, AND Mike Holmgren" built the franchise when it was clearly Favre. Nobody ask those guys to do commercials or lots of interviews like Brett Favre. Plus, from what I remember, GM's and owners do not play on the field.
Favre didnt build it...He was part of it..It is an insult to Reggie, Sean, Bennett, Dorsey, Newhouse and the rest to say Brett did it all by himself.
Brett was VERY VERY good in the middle 90's but once Mike left his production dropped and never got close to the SB again...UNTIL he tossed that int in 07....Then he got everything he wanted in Minny..and yet he did SAME thing, tossed int
Look around the NFL or any other sport--- most coaches or GMs do not get asked to do a commercial.Your arguments just make no sense..
Lol, I'm not here to argue, but BF talent wise was transcendent among other QB's. Lol, at the age of 40 something he threw 30 TD's to 7 INT's in 2009, which is really good. That goes to show you he wasted a lot of talent in the early 00's (2003 he was beast that year, gotta admit).
The reason why his production dropped was because Rhodes/Sherman were AWFUL at disciplining Favre. No disrespect to the guys you mentioned above...they were a big part of the mid-1990s also.
And the prev 4 seasons he averaged 22 tds and 21 ints per season
He WAS GREAT in the 90's but from 99 on he had average seasons, with a few like in 2009 tossed in once and a while.
But lets get back...forgot this was about Rodgers leadership
Driver on the radio yesterday in New Orleans...
He talked about his retirement, but said more than once...I am here to talk about a charity he is working with AND I am here to support Rodgers for air player of the year
If there was any doubt of how Rodgers is perceived in the locker room, DD supporting him should answer any questions....
I agree with you on Favre
DD talking about Rodgers doesn't really say how Rodgers is perceived in the locker room though. DD has always been a stand up guy and is going to support his team and charity and make it about everyone else but him, that's what he has always done.
We have heard people on both sides the past years saying things about Rodgers and I bet the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I think Rodgers has a chance to be the best QB to ever play the game but I am not sure at this point if he will ever garner the respect that a Peyton Manning does or have the aura of a Tom Brady. Time will tell and we are lucky to have such a great QB because you can draft the best players for the past 10 years (arizona cardinals statistically have had the best drafts for the past decade) and still not do squat without a QB.
Favre didnt build it...He was part of it..It is an insult to Reggie, Sean, Bennett, Dorsey, Newhouse and the rest to say Brett did it all by himself.
Brett was VERY VERY good in the middle 90's but once Mike left his production dropped and never got close to the SB again...UNTIL he tossed that int in 07....Then he got everything he wanted in Minny..and yet he did SAME thing, tossed int
Look around the NFL or any other sport--- most coaches or GMs do not get asked to do a commercial.Your arguments just make no sense..