Rodgers is NOT the problem

[Dr.Jackanapes]

The more I see, the more I buy the power struggle argument. MM and AR are not right with each other as evidenced by going out of their way to contradict statements made in press conferences following games.

I'm as big an AR fan as their is because of what he did at Cal (I'm an alum), but if there is a power struggle, I'm going to have to start looking at things a bit more through Un4GivN's lens because acting the way he is acting due to a power struggle would be just plain childish. I get frustration at poor performance, but if there is a power struggle, he needs to step up and put it aside until the offseason.

That said, the WR are pretty undrrwhelming, which is just making everything worse.

 

[XPack]

He is not THE problem, but certainly is part of THE problem.

 

[Lex Luger]

Its Rodgers fault the Packers dont have single legitimate NFL offensive tackle?

Im surprised Rodgers can even remember his own name after all the hits he has taken because basically they are playing with 9-10 guys on offense. But go ahead and blame one the best NFL players of all time. Just shows how little you actually know about football and sports in general.

Yankees fans booed Babe Ruth and blamed him too near the end of his career when the Yankees started to lose.

 

[RepStar15]

I do not know anyone in their right mind that would say bench or trade Rodgers nor is he the main contributor to our short comings, but he has not been playing like himself. Personally, I think it has to do with his confidence. He does not trust his offensive line and he does not trust his recievers. He is playing scared and I think rightfully so. I think the reason for the short comings are 25% Rodgers, 25% running backs, 25% offensive line and 25% wide receivers. Everyone is contributing to a total cluster on offense. We need to stop panicking though, this is not the future of the team. We currently have two WR on season-ending IR, a beat up offensive line, one fat running back and one RB that cannot secure the ball. This should change next season. We should be thrilled at the development of our YOUNG defense. The fact we are starting 3 rookies on defense bodes well for our future. Ron Zook has improved the issues we have had on special teams. R-E-L-A-X. It is OK that this is not our year. We improved massively in two area's we truly lacked last year. Maybe MM spent too much time improving the defense and special teams the offense was left behind. That will not be the case for next year.

 

[JBlood]

I think the reason for the short comings are 25% Rodgers, 25% running backs, 25% offensive line and 25% wide receivers.

That is a fair critique so far as the players are concerned. Throw in ~50% of the problem due to coaching and Rodgers might be 12.5% of the problem. But I would say the coaching is more than 50% of today's problem.

If it hadn't been for the stroke of luck that landed Rodgers in Green Bay, Thompson and McCarthy would have been shown the door a long time ago.

I give TT-or whomever it was that made the decision to draft Rodgers- 100% credit for the pick. It's why I have been a TT supporter up to now, and even that is wavering. I agree that it's likely they would be gone without that draft pick.

 

[adambr2]

Its Rodgers fault the Packers dont have single legitimate NFL offensive tackle?

Im surprised Rodgers can even remember his own name after all the hits he has taken because basically they are playing with 9-10 guys on offense. But go ahead and blame one the best NFL players of all time. Just shows how little you actually know about football and sports in general.

Yankees fans booed Babe Ruth and blamed him too near the end of his career when the Yankees started to lose.

While the tackle play hasn't been good this year, Bulaga was well above average coming into the season.

Rodgers has played behind worse lines and been more successful. It's obvious to anyone who has watched the team this year, and even obvious to himself that he's been off in his throws and part of the struggles.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

While the tackle play hasn't been good this year, Bulaga was well above average coming into the season.

Rodgers has played behind worse lines and been more successful. It's obvious to anyone who has watched the team this year, and even obvious to himself that he's been off in his throws and part of the struggles.

We're all aware he's played behind bad lines, but this bad? There are 4 teams that have given up more sacks, and they are perennial bottom dwellers.

Given that the sacks really started piling up after the Bye Week, in the past 10 games, this has to be the worst line I've ever seen him play behind.

 

[Mondio]

I'd say when Bulaga is healthy, he's about as good as I'd expect at RT. Problem is, he's not been available or near 100% much of the year. Our LT is a different story, I think even healthy it's a weak position. Literally and figuratively. When he's injured or out, it's worse obviously. But I think a lot of our issues are with Linsley this year too. It seems like a lot of pressure has come right up the middle when he's been in, either miscommunications between him and Sitton, or he's just not doing as good of a job. Or maybe coordinators had an offseason to find his tendencies and when to exploit them? It seemed better when Tretter was in, or maybe we just played weaker fronts.

But with all that going on up front, Rodgers has been better with the same or worse and this year he's still good, but not close to his usual self. He's missed a handful or more of passes in each game and some have turned points for us into turnovers. Coupled with receivers that aren't helping out their qb much, this years passing game has been pretty poor overall. A couple little things get turned around and things look much different for this team. I don't have any good reason to say it will happen this sunday and continue thru the playoffs, but i'm confident that it can happen and i'm hoping.

 

[adambr2]

We're all aware he's played behind bad lines, but this bad? There are 4 teams that have given up more sacks, and they are perennial bottom dwellers.

Given that the sacks really started piling up after the Bye Week, in the past 10 games, this has to be the worst line I've ever seen him play behind.

2015 - 47 sacks, 104 hits
2014 - 30 sacks, 64 hits
2013 - 45 sacks, 75 hits
2012 - 51 sacks, 85 hits
2011 - 41 sacks, 73 hits
2010 - 38 sacks, 67 hits
2009 - 51 sacks, 93 hits

Sack numbers are pretty consistent with many bad O line years of A Rodg's career. QB hits are up, but what these numbers don't tell us is how much of that is attributable to O line breakdowns, and how much is attributable to a larger number of broken plays and a lot more time spent in the pocket waiting for a receiver to break free.

Here's my issue with those who want to retool the entire line. Before this season, it was widely assumed / projected that we had a good line. A great one, in fact. They were great last year.

So, we can either assume this year was an aberration, for many reasons, and that a fully in tact WR corps next year will result in the ball coming out more quickly, actual designed routes and better execution on offense.

Or, we can panic, assume that last year's good line now stinks, release Bahk, give up high picks and a lot of cap to trade for Thomas. That's an option too. It's also one with a lot of sacrifice that will leave other holes that people will be screaming at TT next year for not addressing.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

2015 - 47 sacks, 104 hits
2014 - 30 sacks, 64 hits
2013 - 45 sacks, 75 hits
2012 - 51 sacks, 85 hits
2011 - 41 sacks, 73 hits
2010 - 38 sacks, 67 hits
2009 - 51 sacks, 93 hits

Sack numbers are pretty consistent with many bad O line years of A Rodg's career. QB hits are up, but what these numbers don't tell us is how much of that is attributable to O line breakdowns, and how much is attributable to a larger number of broken plays and a lot more time spent in the pocket waiting for a receiver to break free.

Here's my issue with those who want to retool the entire line. Before this season, it was widely assumed / projected that we had a good line. A great one, in fact. They were great last year.

So, we can either assume this year was an aberration, for many reasons, and that a fully in tact WR corps next year will result in the ball coming out more quickly, actual designed routes and better execution on offense.

Or, we can panic, assume that last year's good line now stinks, release Bahk, give up high picks and a lot of cap to trade for Thomas. That's an option too. It's also one with a lot of sacrifice that will leave other holes that people will be screaming at TT next year for not addressing.

The ability for corners to cover the receivers 1 on 1 opens up a lot of opportunities for the defense in terms of rushing and spying Rodgers. During the final 10 games of the season, after Montgomery went down and the defenses did this exclusively, the sacks per game doubled. So it's fair to say there could be a correlation.

 

[DON BARRETT]

Our off. line is bad and we have no one to throw the deep ball too. After 6 to 7 weeks teams know how to beat us TT needs to pay some $$ and get a big time WR cause we need one even if nelson comes back next year.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

For anyone that has played sports, you know that sometimes there is just not a problem that you can point to and fix. Just like when your wife is crying, you can't go fix that either (most of the time). We all sit here, pounding away at the keyboard keys trying to find the "aha" thing that is hindering this offense. Sometimes it is just a "je ne sais pas" situation that will sort itself out over the offseason.

1) The injuries are no more devastating than other seasons
2) The receivers didn't all develop arthritis and become slower. They are playing slower
3) MM didn't forget how to string together play calls
4) Rodgers didn't forget how to throw

They all suck this year for a number of small reasons and probably a few that nobody, including the players and coaches, can put a finger on. We won't solve this riddle online, but we will continue to talk about it.

Even if they aren't all the sudden becoming slower, I'm not so sure some of them haven't lost a step or 2 along the way. While I'm not advocating a complete WR overhaul, I'm not opposed to going after some young speedsters like Jailyn Marshall or Michael Thomas in this next draft to restore some explosiveness back to this offense because I do think we could stand to have some small changes there.

I think a big part of our struggles too have been a battered O-line. Against some of the old zone coverage/blitzing defenses we faced, it wasn't as much of an issue, but against teams that both blitz and go man to man, your O-line has to hold up and give your QB a bit of extra time and protection and against good teams like AZ, they were injured and could not do that. So I do think we need some new hogs up front too.

And to go along with that last point, I just think Rodgers because of having to escape pressure all the time and deal with a lackluster offense, has resorted to trying to force balls downfield and most of which have been in desperation and not fired on the money. Because throwin it up like Brett Favre lately has not been his MO, but he does seem to be dealing right now with some of the things Favre had to deal with when he had less talented teams around him. I have no nostalgia for Favre or what he did, but seeing those desperation throws coming from Rodgers at a difficult time with this team does want to make me be a little more forgiving of some of Favre's long balls that I didn't like, under some similar circumstances.


I think there's a little something though that can be said though, and that is that good WRs are not necessarily plug and play pieces. I think we as football fans often assume that it's the QB that makes the WRs and not the other way around, but I don't think that's necessarily true. I think some talented WRs out there like Edelman and Amendola get underappreciated because of who their QB is, and I think there's a lot of talented WRs out there who don't get all that many of the balls thrown their way or that don't get talked about because they aren't "look at me" kind of guys. But I don't think you can really minimize the value of them, even if they just kinda quietly do the job.

So is beating this whole man coverage approach going to get done more so by upgrading personnel or by changing up the playbook? I gotta think probably a little of both.

But I don't buy into the lies perpetrating around here that Mike McCarthy has lost the players and Ted Thompson is too lazy to rebuild a team. Absolutely foolish statements get circulating around here with no water in them.

 

[Un4GivN]

But I don't buy into the lies perpetrating around here that Mike McCarthy has lost the players and Ted Thompson is too lazy to rebuild a team. Absolutely foolish statements get circulating around here with no water in them.

I hadn't heard the line about TT being lazy... But he has been quite stubborn in his stance in free agency. There are quite a few free-agents throughout the league that DO work out. Last years team with the addition of Revis could have been something special. Along with any of Denver's T.J. Ward, Aqib Talib and DeMarcus Ware.

I'm not saying go sign every Suh, but if you are a great judge of talent... Wouldn't you be able to avoid those landmines and sign meaningful players more often? Don't you think you would try a little more often?

 

[Quientus]

I hadn't heard the line about TT being lazy... But he has been quite stubborn in his stance in free agency. There are quite a few free-agents throughout the league that DO work out. Last years team with the addition of Revis could have been something special. Along with any of Denver's T.J. Ward, Aqib Talib and DeMarcus Ware.

I'm not saying go sign every Suh, but if you are a great judge of talent... Wouldn't you be able to avoid those landmines and sign meaningful players more often? Don't you think you would try a little more often?

Some years ago, I would have been inclined to agree with you ... And mind you, as those posters whom have frequented this board for years will know, I'm not a fan of TT or McLardy ... However, I don't believe it's entirely on TT, this reluctance to upgrade via FA ..., but also some of the "conditions" which were set by the employers, when TT was hired at first ...

Ppl can blame TT for many things, but lazy and not trying to improve The Team are not among them. And so far he has gotten the job done ...

As for Rodgers, well ... I've made my opinion more than clear, so I'll leave it at that ...

 

[mongoosev]

I have been in situations where I was the lead guy only to have fk ups not doing their jobs to the point where you just give up and then everyone blames you. I see that as the same situation Rogers is in. The guy can only do so much and when these guys don't do their jobs then you lose hope no matter how much you try and motivate them or tell them, "it's ok just hang in there...!" So this chain reaction of playing poorly from the O line to the Rback to the receivers all found it's way to Rog.

 

[gopkrs]

Still, I gotta blame noone ever being open on the routes called and not always the player.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I have been in situations where I was the lead guy only to have fk ups not doing their jobs to the point where you just give up and then everyone blames you. I see that as the same situation Rogers is in. The guy can only do so much and when these guys don't do their jobs then you lose hope no matter how much you try and motivate them or tell them, "it's ok just hang in there...!" So this chain reaction of playing poorly from the O line to the Dback to the receivers all found it's way to Rog.

I wonder if he's grown frustrated with the play calling as well, since the defenses seem to know our plays as well as we do. Somebody started a thread on here with a link that provided some pictures and breakdown of a typical play, and it looked like something drawn up by a 12 year old in Madden. To say the defense had it sniffed out is a huge understatement.

 

[mongoosev]

I wonder if he's grown frustrated with the play calling as well, since the defenses seem to know our plays as well as we do. Somebody started a thread on here with a link that provided some pictures and breakdown of a typical play, and it looked like something drawn up by a 12 year old in Madden. To say the defense had it sniffed out is a huge understatement.

thing is we had some good call playing but our darn receivers were dropping balls. the only reliable receivers are Jones and Rogers right now. So it seems that the other teams ares confident in their Dbacks against our receivers while their Dline and Lbackers are demolishing our run game as well. Personally I think it all comes down to our receivers truly being a disappoint which exposes the weakness of our Oline and our Rbacks. Wish I had the answers.

 

[Un4GivN]

thing is we had some good call playing but our darn receivers were dropping balls. the only reliable receivers are Jones and Rogers right now. So it seems that the other teams ares confident in their Dbacks against our receivers while their Dline and Lbackers are demolishing our run game as well. Personally I think it all comes down to our receivers truly being a disappoint which exposes the weakness of our Oline and our Rbacks. Wish I had the answers.

Did you read the article someone posted about how truly bad our plays are?

Not saying that is the only problem... But it doesn't help either.

 

[TJV]

However, I don't believe it's entirely on TT, this reluctance to upgrade via FA ..., but also some of the "conditions" which were set by the employers, when TT was hired at first ...

What conditions do you think were set by the organization? The CBA mandates a minimum amount of cash that teams must spend over the course of two separate four-year periods beginning in 2013. Before this season there were a few lists of teams that have to spend more money to meet their first four-year goal and the Packers weren’t on it.

I don’t know why some fans don’t accept that it’s simply Thompson’s sincere belief that ‘draft and develop’ is the best way to build and sustain a team. BTW, according to Holmgren that was Thompson’s belief when he, Thompson and Reinfeldt were in Seattle. Certainly Paul Allen wouldn’t have put any such condition on the Seahawks.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Two things I heard in a Pro Football Focus podcast recently:

1) Cumulatively, Rodgers has extended plays longer than any other QB in the NFL by a decent margin over the season. At the beginning of the season this was necessary as pressure was getting to him quickly but its become a habit that's now hurting the team. He appears to be giving up on plays more quickly and beginning to scramble before he actually has to. Seems like he's assuming the pressure will get there before it actually does, something I'm sure he'll be able to fix in the offseason.

2) Passer rating for Rodgers is like 8th (I can't recall the actual number but it was decent) but if you remove screen plays that number falls to 24th. They mentioned on the podcast that passer rating is a better way to measure a passing offense, not really a QB and the fact that the Packers are SO dependent on screen plays (Packers have more yards from screen plays than any other team in the NFL) illustrates the complete lack of dynamic players in the passing offense.

Just two things I thought were interesting.

 

[RRyder]

I hadn't heard the line about TT being lazy... But he has been quite stubborn in his stance in free agency. There are quite a few free-agents throughout the league that DO work out. Last years team with the addition of Revis could have been something special. Along with any of Denver's T.J. Ward, Aqib Talib and DeMarcus Ware.

I'm not saying go sign every Suh, but if you are a great judge of talent... Wouldn't you be able to avoid those landmines and sign meaningful players more often? Don't you think you would try a little more often?

Well TT did reportedly make a run at Revis just this past offseason it's just he didn't want to fully guarantee his contract like the Jets did which is a move I agree with... Just sayin.

It's not that TT is adverse to FA. He just refuses to get into bidding wars or pay more than he thinks a players worth in order to participate

 

[Un4GivN]

Well TT did reportedly make a run at Revis just this past offseason it's just he didn't want to fully guarantee his contract like the Jets did which is a move I agree with... Just sayin.

It's not that TT is adverse to FA. He just refuses to get into bidding wars or pay more than he thinks a players worth in order to participate

Wasn't he kind of a year late? Should have gotten Revis while his stock was low and not after helping the Pats win a super bowl... Just sayin.

He is adverse to FA, there is no other way to put it. He has passed on many good fill-ins and low priced guys who have went on to have fine seasons with their new teams.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but to state he isn't would contradict the information at hand.

Let's get this straight. I'm not for firing TT, but I don't think he is quite the "genius" others label him as. He has had plenty of missed draft picks, and has let above average players who aren't big names go to other teams. We have the 10th most cap space in the league right...

Just to give you a stat... No team with more cap space available then us in the 2015 season made the playoffs (Top two least amount of cap space left.... Arizona and Seattle. Who for my money, one of them will make the super bowl.) Which bodes well for the production we are getting out of our players. But also shows how much room there was to make this team better than it is.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

The biggest problem TT has is that he can't let go to "his" draft picks when they clearly are not panning out. I love his draft and develop mentality and it works, but he has to realize some of those picks, whether 1/2/3 rounders, are not good.

I think he is only adverse to FA because he feels "his" players can get the job done. If the deal is good enough, meaning if the player has basically no other options than to come to GB, he signs an FA.

Take for instance Woodson. Everyone always thinks TT did such a great job in landing Woodson but the fact was, Woodson was injury plagued for years and was unhappy with the Raiders. He signed with GB because no other teams wanted him and we got a deal.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Did you read the article someone posted about how truly bad our plays are?

Not saying that is the only problem... But it doesn't help either.

I know that was just an illustration of a few plays, but where there's smoke there is fire, and I don't think a great play designer would have any of those plays in his arsenal. The fact that the receivers are covered so consistently lead me to believe they play design is very vanilla. And explains why we weren't ever very productive against great defenses. The matchups just negated this issue against most teams when Jordy was around.