Prospects You Love

[GleefulGary]

You keep bringing up Hercules. The guy played D-Line at 250 lbs in the "Soft 12". He is a nice little college football player but has zero tape of playing standing up off the ball in an entirely new position. He needed to stay in school another year. Plus his body type isn't popular with putting on more weight. He is a day 3 shot in the dark. Hardly anything to get excited about.

Pass.

Yeah. We've never had success with guys who have played DL in the "Soft 12". Never ever. Clay Matthews: bah. Nick Perry: meh. Kenny Clark: ugh. Who wants more of those?

Anyways, Hercules is a really interesting prospect. He primarily played inside at 250 lbs. Obviously, he won't play inside in the NFL. What he does have is an incredibly good first step, a surplus of passing moves, and a ton of effort. I think he projects well as an edge rusher, but it is a projection. I very well could be wrong. I'm ok with that, but he is one of my guys.

If we are both to be objective, me projecting him to do well as an edge rusher is no more of a hot take than you saying Paris Campbell is a #1 WR,

 

[GleefulGary]

I wouldn't be surprised by this pick. At 20, he still has a year or three of physical development and could be quite an impact player ala Clark.

Where would we play him? Inside or out? I like the flexibility and game planning options that kind of vesatility brings.

Inside for sure.

Dantes talked about it, but David Harris averaged ~5 sacks a year under Pettine. Edmunds profiles as a better gap blitzer than Harris, imo. I have not seen Edmunds work much as an edge rusher, and his hands would need a ton of work, but be could theoretically play a flex inside/edge role.

 

[Dantés]

My too early comp on Edmunds is Dont’a Hightower. He’s longer and looks more athletic, but that’s how I envision him. Hightower has moonlighted at times as a pass rusher for New England. Edmunds’ tools may allow him to do that to a greater extent.

 

[brandon2348]

Yeah. We've never had success with guys who have played DL in the "Soft 12". Never ever. Clay Matthews: bah. Nick Perry: meh. Kenny Clark: ugh. Who wants more of those?


If we are both to be objective, me projecting him to do well as an edge rusher is no more of a hot take than you saying Paris Campbell is a #1 WR,

Not really. Your talking about taking a guy who has played D-Tackle in college(which was a smoke and mirrors defense btw) and making him an edge guy based on his quickness off the line.

I'm talking about taking a top tier college receiver and developing him into a no.1 receiver at NFL level based on vanilla offense ran at Ohio State.

Not sure I see the similarities.

 

[GleefulGary]

Not really. Your talking about taking a guy who has played D-Tackle in college(which was a smoke and mirrors defense btw) and making him an edge guy based on his quickness off the line.

I'm talking about taking a top tier college receiver and developing him into a no.1 receiver at NFL level based on vanilla offense ran at Ohio State.

Not sure I see the similarities.

Top tier? TOP TIER?!

Bruh. Bro. Brocephus. Campbell has played 29 games in his career and has 53 total catches for 700 yards. He has 3 receiving TD's over his career. A little under 900 receiving/rushing yards for his career. For comparison, Michael Thomas at OSU had over 50 catches his sophomore and junior years each. Curtis Samuel (who Campbell kind of replaced) had 70+ catches last year. If you're an elite receiver for Urban Meyer, you get the ball. In fact, Campbell's team leading totals in receiving yards are the worst OSU has had since 2011 when they had all their top guys suspended and Urban Meyer wasn't there. Meyer hasn't had a receiver lead the team with that few of yards since 2010. He has not been a top tier college receiver to this point. Of course, this is all moot because Campbell is going back to school. He's not in the draft.

But yeah, Mata'afa lines up at DT and DE. They move him around where he can be a mismatch. Has great quickness off the lines, a good arsenal of pass moves, and uses his hands very violently and very well.

This year he played around 21% of his snaps at DE. Last year he lined up at 6 different spots on the line. It's not like he can't do it. He's a versatile player. I would suggest you watch him, if you haven't. But you don't have to like him, he's just one of my guys. And I'm wrong on guys every single year.

 

[brandon2348]

Top tier? TOP TIER?!

Bruh. Bro. Brocephus. Campbell has played 29 games in his career and has 53 total catches for 700 yards. He has 3 receiving TD's over his career. A little under 900 receiving/rushing yards for his career. For comparison, Michael Thomas at OSU had over 50 catches his sophomore and junior years each. Curtis Samuel (who Campbell kind of replaced) had 70+ catches last year. If you're an elite receiver for Urban Meyer, you get the ball. In fact, Campbell's team leading totals in receiving yards are the worst OSU has had since 2011 when they had all their top guys suspended and Urban Meyer wasn't there. Meyer hasn't had a receiver lead the team with that few of yards since 2010. He has not been a top tier college receiver to this point. Of course, this is all moot because Campbell is going back to school. He's not in the draft.

But yeah, Mata'afa lines up at DT and DE. They move him around where he can be a mismatch. Has great quickness off the lines, a good arsenal of pass moves, and uses his hands very violently and very well.

This year he played around 21% of his snaps at DE. Last year he lined up at 6 different spots on the line. It's not like he can't do it. He's a versatile player. I would suggest you watch him, if you haven't. But you don't have to like him, he's just one of my guys. And I'm wrong on guys every single year.

If Campbell is going back to school then Hercules needs to sprint back to school and get some more tape standing up. Look, my best friend is a Wazzu alum and I watch plenty of Wazzu football. He even thinks Hercules should of went back to school. This isn't a Deone Buchannon situation where he is going day 1 or even day 2. Hercules is a great college football story no doubt but once again he is 250 pounds and will get bulldozed at next level if you simply just run at him. There are legitimate concerns that his body type wont put on the necessary weight. He is going to have to transition into an edge position at next level and for many its a long shot.

He obviously has an agent in his ear. I'm not rooting against the guy but it just looks like a long shot.

 

[OldSchool101]

As myself, JJ and a few others have also alluded to, its really hard to start predicting draft picks until you see what the Packers do or don't do with their own players and than in Free Agency. Preferably, I would rather find the answers at position of immediate need in the FA market. Use the draft to start planning for the near future.

This was exactly my thought.
What I’m about to say is hard for me because I 100% agree that having a Pass Rush Specialist is paramount. If knew there was just one position in 2018 that I could inject on each side of the ball that would play like a probowl candidate day 1 and be a true impact player and not only give us immediate benefit but allow us to fill these big boots without them falling off in stride.

Defense: a Shutdown CB
Offense: TE (Jermichael #2)

IMO our problem is we don’t have the Cap this year to get it all done in 1 off season. It becomes pick or choose which holes we need to fill and I agree that much of that starts in FA (both home and abroad)

One benefit is I think we underestimate how much #12 makes Wideouts look even better than they actually are. We need to rely on that concept right now and lean on him more than Danica Patrick on a sailboat in a string bikini.

 

[brandon2348]

Top tier? TOP TIER?!

Bruh. Bro. Brocephus. Campbell has played 29 games in his career and has 53 total catches for 700 yards. He has 3 receiving TD's over his career. A little under 900 receiving/rushing yards for his career. For comparison, Michael Thomas at OSU had over 50 catches his sophomore and junior years each. Curtis Samuel (who Campbell kind of replaced) had 70+ catches last year. If you're an elite receiver for Urban Meyer, you get the ball. In fact, Campbell's team leading totals in receiving yards are the worst OSU has had since 2011 when they had all their top guys suspended and Urban Meyer wasn't there. Meyer hasn't had a receiver lead the team with that few of yards since 2010. He has not been a top tier college receiver to this point. Of course, this is all moot because Campbell is going back to school. He's not in the draft.

But yeah, Mata'afa lines up at DT and DE. They move him around where he can be a mismatch. Has great quickness off the lines, a good arsenal of pass moves, and uses his hands very violently and very well.

This year he played around 21% of his snaps at DE. Last year he lined up at 6 different spots on the line. It's not like he can't do it. He's a versatile player. I would suggest you watch him, if you haven't. But you don't have to like him, he's just one of my guys. And I'm wrong on guys every single year.

Also, now that my "Love Affair" with Parris Campbell has to wait until next year I'm putting all chips down on Courtland Sutton with 14th pick. Total Package!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Danica Patrick on a sailboat in a string bikini.

Sorry.....I read that and forgot everything you said before it.

 

[GleefulGary]

Also, now that my "Love Affair" with Parris Campbell has to wait until next year I'm putting all chips down on Courtland Sutton with 14th pick. Total Package!

You're gonna think I'm just disagreeing to disagree with you...but I'm gonna disagree with you here.

Sutton reminds me of Josh Doctson. What I mean by that is that he's good at the catch and after the catch, but everything before that is sketchy. He's not a good route runner, he's surprisingly not great against press coverage, and he's not creating separation with his routes. I like him because physically he has everything you'd want, but I wouldn't take him over Ridley.

 

[brandon2348]

You're gonna think I'm just disagreeing to disagree with you...but I'm gonna disagree with you here.

Sutton reminds me of Josh Doctson. What I mean by that is that he's good at the catch and after the catch, but everything before that is sketchy. He's not a good route runner, he's surprisingly not great against press coverage, and he's not creating separation with his routes. I like him because physically he has everything you'd want, but I wouldn't take him over Ridley.

Your forgetting Sutton is almost 30 pounds bigger then Doctson so I don't like the comparison. I suppose both are raw. Although Doctson did flash as a rookie. He Basically beat the Seahawks with an amazing catch. In all honesty Sutton is closer to Mike Evans.

Ridley is closer to Trevor Davis then Sutton is to Doctson. Let's see what Ridley does at Combine. Im not gonna get all excited about a 185 pound receier.

Lets face it. R.Smith will be off the board after he runs 4.4 at combine and when Packers draft I would hate to see us lose out on the next big time receiver in Sutton. I want a guy who can stretch the field and win 50/50 balls and that's not Ridley.

Also, the ceiling is way way higher with Sutton and you have to project these guys making the jump. Ridley might be maxed out like a lot of Bama players have a history of. I have no problem with the Packers developing Sutton while they pay off all the dead weight at receiver this year.

Sutton Round 1 and Dorance Armstrong Round 2

Round 3 is "Fumagalli Time"

 

[GleefulGary]

Yeah. There aren't any receivers who do well at 185 lbs, or around that area. None at all.

Sutton could be really good. I like him. I also think there are some issues with him too. Ridley also has issues, but he is the most complete WR in the draft.

Hands? Check.
Route running? Check.
Speed? Check.
Complete route tree? Check.

His only question mark is strength, but if you have the speed, the ability to cut, and the ability to run routes well, you can win in the NFL.

 

[brandon2348]

Yeah. There aren't any receivers who do well at 185 lbs, or around that area. None at all.

Sutton could be really good. I like him. I also think there are some issues with him too. Ridley also has issues, but he is the most complete WR in the draft.

Hands? Check.
Route running? Check.
Speed? Check.
Complete route tree? Check.

His only question mark is strength, but if you have the speed, the ability to cut, and the ability to run routes well, you can win in the NFL.

Strength is a huge deal for a receiver in the NFL. Space is more limited in NFL and receivers have to work in tighter spaces then college and is much more physical. I expect Ridley to run 4.5-4.4 at combine and that size/speed/strength combo doesn't merit a 14th round investment IMO. I will be very disappointed if that's who the Packers draft at 14.

Especially if Sutton is there who is a genetic freak and just needs to be coached up on some routes. Everything I have read and seen about Sutton is really good. He is a good kid, good teammate and loves football. He just checks a lot more boxes IMO.

 

[EvAn]

Now that we may look at prospects with off the field concerns more than we did with TT, I’d be interested to see Antonio Callaway combine numbers. Major red flags but has been compared to Deion Branch and Julio

 

[brandon2348]

Now that we may look at prospects with off the field concerns more than we did with TT, I’d be interested to see Antonio Callaway combine numbers. Major red flags but has been compared to Deion Branch and Julio

He is definitely worth a look.

 

[Dantés]

All of the prospects that I really love in this class (so far): Chubb, Smith, Edmunds, Fitzpatrick, and Nelson, are gone by the time the Packers pick in Jeremiah's first mock draft. Not that a mock means they will really go in those slots, but it was interesting to see that he also regards them very highly.

A few things that caught my eye: 4 QB's in the top 13, no Harold Landry but Marcus Davenport goes 7th, Denzel Ward the first CB off the board, 2 WR's in the first round (Ridley and Kirk-- no Sutton).

The Packers are matched up with some corner from UCF named Mike Hughes. I know nothing about him.

 

[easyk83]

All of the prospects that I really love in this class (so far): Chubb, Smith, Edmunds, Fitzpatrick, and Nelson, are gone by the time the Packers pick in Jeremiah's first mock draft. Not that a mock means they will really go in those slots, but it was interesting to see that he also regards them very highly.

A few things that caught my eye: 4 QB's in the top 13, no Harold Landry but Marcus Davenport goes 7th, Denzel Ward the first CB off the board, 2 WR's in the first round (Ridley and Kirk-- no Sutton).

The Packers are matched up with some corner from UCF named Mike Hughes. I know nothing about him.

These mocks are garbage up to this point, guys in the top 10 will plummet after bowl practices and combine. Guys you never heard of will rocket to the top of the first round and some guys that you really like will slide into the teens or flat out plummet in the draft.

Have you made any changes since the Shrine game practices have started?

 

[GleefulGary]

Strength is a huge deal for a receiver in the NFL. Space is more limited in NFL and receivers have to work in tighter spaces then college and is much more physical. I expect Ridley to run 4.5-4.4 at combine and that size/speed/strength combo doesn't merit a 14th round investment IMO. I will be very disappointed if that's who the Packers draft at 14.

Especially if Sutton is there who is a genetic freak and just needs to be coached up on some routes. Everything I have read and seen about Sutton is really good. He is a good kid, good teammate and loves football. He just checks a lot more boxes IMO.

I'm not really advocating for Ridley at 14. I'd prefer not to take a WR at 14 at all, but it just depends how the board slides.

As for the size/speed/strength combo...the best WR in the league is smaller and timed slower than that. I'm sure if people could redo that draft, they'd pick Brown higher than 14. You can't let raw numbers like that dictate who you take where. There are plenty of smaller WR's who do well in the NFL. That doesn't mean only take small WR's, it just means that they can be good too. And with WR's, it really depends on what you need. A slot guy, a vertical guy, a possession receiver, etc etc.

 

[Dantés]

These mocks are garbage up to this point, guys in the top 10 will plummet after bowl practices and combine. Guys you never heard of will rocket to the top of the first round and some guys that you really like will slide into the teens or flat out plummet in the draft.

Have you made any changes since the Shrine game practices have started?

Mocks will change significantly, but it's interesting to see who Jeremiah likes enough to slot in the top 10 here at first blush. It's also important to know where these guys stand before they work out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

These mocks are garbage up to this point, guys in the top 10 will plummet after bowl practices and combine. Guys you never heard of will rocket to the top of the first round and some guys that you really like will slide into the teens or flat out plummet in the draft.

Have you made any changes since the Shrine game practices have started?

Agreed on mocks being just an exercise in self ************ at this point. Not just in the way of the players themselves, but in terms of teams needs. Each teams roster changes between now and the draft. Guys are resigned or let walk. Free agents are signed. I get the fun of looking at the draft, but who really knows what the Packers will need on draft day. Now if you are Gute or Ball, it might be helpful to start looking at the possibilities, which may shape who you do or don't sign between now and April 26th.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not really advocating for Ridley at 14. I'd prefer not to take a WR at 14 at all, but it just depends how the board slides.

As for the size/speed/strength combo...the best WR in the league is smaller and timed slower than that. I'm sure if people could redo that draft, they'd pick Brown higher than 14. You can't let raw numbers like that dictate who you take where. There are plenty of smaller WR's who do well in the NFL. That doesn't mean only take small WR's, it just means that they can be good too. And with WR's, it really depends on what you need. A slot guy, a vertical guy, a possession receiver, etc etc.

You can't discount anyone but IMO it comes down to probabilities. I believe the probabilities are better with Sutton over Ridley of becoming an elite NFL receiver. There are obviously no guarantees but to look at Sutton's body of work and not get excited about the possibilities is a little doom and gloom IMO. I mean what more do you want in a prospect?

 

[OldSchool101]

Strength is a huge deal for a receiver in the NFL. Space is more limited in NFL and receivers have to work in tighter spaces then college and is much more physical. I expect Ridley to run 4.5-4.4 at combine and that size/speed/strength combo doesn't merit a 14th round investment IMO. I will be very disappointed if that's who the Packers draft at 14.

Especially if Sutton is there who is a genetic freak and just needs to be coached up on some routes. Everything I have read and seen about Sutton is really good. He is a good kid, good teammate and loves football. He just checks a lot more boxes IMO.

I watched some film on him after you suggested him a few weeks back and you had me considering changing my mind from an edge rusher for a few days. You can just tell he's a bad motor skooter. Actually Davante looked that way against the Jets in the home opener in 2014 when he was a rookie. Sutton looks more powerful than his size and he's not small by any means

 

[PackFan2]

Anyone watch the east vs west shrine game in st. petersburg, fl? any prospects?
I know Yancey was there last year and G-Mo was in the 2016 one.

 

[brandon2348]

You can't discount anyone but IMO it comes down to probabilities. I believe the probabilities are better with Sutton over Ridley of becoming an elite NFL receiver. There are obviously no guarantees but to look at Sutton's body of work and not get excited about the possibilities is a little doom and gloom IMO. I mean what more do you want in a prospect?

I don't want a Mickey Mouse receiver. Pass.

 

[easyk83]

Agreed on mocks being just an exercise in self ************ at this point. Not just in the way of the players themselves, but in terms of teams needs. Each teams roster changes between now and the draft. Guys are resigned or let walk. Free agents are signed. I get the fun of looking at the draft, but who really knows what the Packers will need on draft day. Now if you are Gute or Ball, it might be helpful to start looking at the possibilities, which may shape who you do or don't sign between now and April 26th.

An actual FO evaluation process makes the sports bloggers and personalities look like a joke on this. But I admit I still like checking mocks even now. I just wouldnt react to where players are at this point because they will rise or drop