Preseason game 3

[Packerlover]

I hope Rodgers, Lacy, Matthews, Peppers, Cobb, Montgomery, Kuhn, Rogers, Burnett, Barrington, Shields, Hyde and The entire starting offensive line sit on the bench in this game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Matthews and Montgomery both need reps. I don't see them sitting. If they have the O-line "functioning" and not Barclay in there at the beginning, I would like to see Rodgers get some reps with Janis and White.

As much as we all hate injuries, especially in pre-season, the last thing I want to see is "playing scared" of them at the expense of having your team on the same page. Not saying throw caution to the wind and put key players at risk, but notoriously the 4th game is where the starters seem to get the bench seats.

 

[Packerlover]

Matthews and Montgomery both need reps. I don't see them sitting. If they have the O-line "functioning" and not Barclay in there at the beginning, I would like to see Rodgers get some reps with Janis and White.

As much as we all hate injuries, especially in pre-season, the last thing I want to see is "playing scared" of them at the expense of having your team on the same page. Not saying throw caution to the wind and put key players at risk, but notoriously the 4th game is where the starters seem to get the bench seats.

I understand about not playing scared and that injuries are part of the game but I don't want to see any more important players out for the season in a meaningless game. Ok.. give them the reps but only for a series or two, then get them OUTTA THERE!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Matthews and Montgomery both need reps. I don't see them sitting. If they have the O-line "functioning" and not Barclay in there at the beginning, I would like to see Rodgers get some reps with Janis and White.

While I would like Rodgers to get some snaps in a game with Montgomery, Janis and White I don´t see it happening vs. the Eagles with Bakhtiari, Sitton and Lang going to miss the game. Matthews should be fine even if he doesn´t play during the preseason at all.

 

[JBlood]

Just another scrimmage for the starters, who don't need it. It's important for those hoping for a roster spot.

Preseason games and their regular season ticket prices are the biggest financial fraud in professional sports.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Rodgers needs a couple more series with the young WRs. I get that we lost Jordy in a meaningless game, but we can't just write off the rest of the preseason as worthless. We need #12 to be confident throwing the ball to Montgomery/Janis/White.

Now, obviously don't let them pay much more than a couple drives. But the game speed and atmosphere is difficult to replicate in practice.

 

[El Guapo]

I love watching the bubble guys on the roster. That said, you actually NEED the starters in so that you can see how some of these bubble guys do when playing against the best competition. It's been discussed in the Gunter thread that he hasn't faced elite opponents. Therefore, you need some opportunities to see how these guys stack up before leveling the axe.

 

[TJV]

Montgomery, Janis, and White need reps with Rodgers but if this is true:

But, with three starters out against the Eagles, Walker will replace T.J. Lang at right guard, Lane Taylor will fill in for Josh Sitton at left guard and Barclay will be back on the left side for Bakhtiari.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-offensive-lineman-b99565345z1-323174301.html

I’d rather not see Aaron Rodgers in the game. Or at the very least for anything more than a three step drop they better have a TE or FB to help the now hapless Barclay. How idiotic would it be, after watching Barclay in the previous two preseason games to have Rodgers take a deep drop with three OL starters out and no additional help? Yes, the young WRs need first team reps but events have conspired against that idea - even Tolzien will be unavailable. IMO it would be better to hope the OL is intact for the final preseason game than to chance it now, unless serious precautions are taken. Losing Nelson was bad enough...

 

[Voltron]

Montgomery, Janis, and White need reps with Rodgers but if this is true: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-offensive-lineman-b99565345z1-323174301.html

I’d rather not see Aaron Rodgers in the game. Or at the very least for anything more than a three step drop they better have a TE or FB to help the now hapless Barclay. How idiotic would it be, after watching Barclay in the previous two preseason games to have Rodgers take a deep drop with three OL starters out and no additional help? Yes, the young WRs need first team reps but events have conspired against that idea - even Tolzien will be unavailable. IMO it would be better to hope the OL is intact for the final preseason game than to chance it now, unless serious precautions are taken. Losing Nelson was bad enough...

Same here, I prefer Rodgers not play. The game does not count, to me preseason should be more about filtering good players from bad ones, to see which of he new guys show effort and which dont, those that dont get cut.

 

[Sky King]

Saturday, the Packers are likely to start an offensive lineup that may be representative of a league doormat. Let's find out if there's a gem hidden in there somewhere.

 

[SoonerPack]

I understand about not playing scared and that injuries are part of the game but I don't want to see any more important players out for the season in a meaningless game. Ok.. give them the reps but only for a series or two, then get them OUTTA THERE!

I am in the camp of don't play opposed to don't play scared. There are some guys that could use some reps but unless the staff feels it completely necessary I am hoping none of the key guys suit up and go tomorrow. The season is a long, arduous grind and the loss of 87 only highlights the importance of having all available hands on deck come Week 1. I would love nothing more than seeing the starters go out as is the case most years in P.S.WK3 but this year the scripts has flipped. Get reps for the guys that truly need them and get them out. I am usually not one to error on the side of caution but this team has a chance to be pretty special (even with the loss of White Chocolate) and I would hate to see us blow the motor before we even cross the start line. Let the youngsters get a ton of action against the first string of a PO caliber team and you will have yourself a lot of quality game tape to break and see who did what. This could actually be a blessing in disguise because we could see some guys on the bubble break thru as well as weed out the guys that have no business being part of this squad. I am looking at you Khyri. Here's hoping for a good game yielding the results the staff needs to make the proper personnel decisions. Go Pack Go!

 

[TJV]

Here's the jsonline preview of tonight's game: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/preview-packers-vs-eagles-b99566116z1-323296831.html

Usually the third preseason game is the tune up for the starters and sometimes they play into the third quarter. Then the fourth game is dominated by backups trying to earn roster spots. Obviously that's not written in stone and it may make sense for the Packers to reverse that to some degree with the offense this season. But that only makes sense for as long as the starting OL (assuming they'll play against the Saints) is on the field. For as long as the starting OL and Rodgers play against the Saints, I'd like to see Montgomery, Janis and White get snaps with the starters. Unless the staff has already decided which of the three will get the majority of the snaps as the #3 WR. Then I think that player, probably Montgomery, should get snaps with the starters.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's the jsonline preview of tonight's game: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/preview-packers-vs-eagles-b99566116z1-323296831.html

I really liked that part of Tom Silverstein´s preview when I read it earlier today:

Three starting offensive linemen are out, and coach Mike McCarthy would be nuts to risk having Rodgers get hit multiple times.

 

[Packerlover]

I am in the camp of don't play opposed to don't play scared. There are some guys that could use some reps but unless the staff feels it completely necessary I am hoping none of the key guys suit up and go tomorrow. The season is a long, arduous grind and the loss of 87 only highlights the importance of having all available hands on deck come Week 1. I would love nothing more than seeing the starters go out as is the case most years in P.S.WK3 but this year the scripts has flipped. Get reps for the guys that truly need them and get them out. I am usually not one to error on the side of caution but this team has a chance to be pretty special (even with the loss of White Chocolate) and I would hate to see us blow the motor before we even cross the start line. Let the youngsters get a ton of action against the first string of a PO caliber team and you will have yourself a lot of quality game tape to break and see who did what. This could actually be a blessing in disguise because we could see some guys on the bubble break thru as well as weed out the guys that have no business being part of this squad. I am looking at you Khyri. Here's hoping for a good game yielding the results the staff needs to make the proper personnel decisions. Go Pack Go!

I agree completely!!

 

[1940sfootball]

Uh oh Cobb

 

[Vrill]

Is it okay that I am excited about Brett Hundley? He actually looks good, LOL

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Not a great game for the starters (who played). The starting defense got abused bad. At least we could tell ourselves "it's the preseason so the defense didn't prepare specifically for the Eagles".

At least the injuries to Cobb, Bulaga and Hyde don't look serious. The last thing this team needs is more injuries.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Is it okay that I am excited about Brett Hundley? He actually looks good, LOL

Excited? That may be a bit too much for me at this point. More like pleasantly surprised and encouraged. I'll say this much...if a couple of the starting O-Linemen were out and Rodgers went down, I'd rather see Hundley out there than Tolzien. Hundley is more mobile, can make a play with his legs, and throws better on the move. Tolzien is a system QB and a pocket passer. His play making ability without a full complement of players is in question.

That said, I expect Tolzien to be the first off the bench regardless. If he went a couple of games without being able to sustain drives, only then would a change be contemplated.

The one aspect of Hundley's game I can get excited about is how accurate a short-to-intermediate passer he's showing himself to be. The TD to Janis shows he's also capable of dropping a deep ball on a dime, though his decision making on those balls needs work.

Adams was pulled for the balance of the game after Cobb went down, leaving Hundley to play without 6 starters (including Nelson). Then Bulaga went down bringing the count to 7. Much of that play was against Philly's first team defense.

All in all, that was pretty impressive performance from Hundley given who he was playing with and against.

 

[TJV]

I think Hundley's play was impressive but no way will a healthy Tolzien be pulled for him in the regular season. With Tolzien at QB the entire playbook is available, including the no-huddle. That's not the case with Hundley. BTW, that TD pass to Janis shows someone's capabilities, but not Hundley's: That was Blanchard.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think there are other positives besides Hundley. Here are a couple.

The Packers screen passing game against Philly, even with the backups at O-Line, was better than we've seen in many a moon. While Philly was giving up the screen to defend elsewhere, the execution was impressive. Hundley's timing, position and touch on those throws was outstanding. If Rodgers has one weakness in his game, it's these kinds of throws (though he's improved over the last couple of years), which may account for why Philly was giving it away...not much Packer tape showing a successful screen game.

In the same vein, Neal may have solidified the #3 running back spot with his receiving performance in this game...5 catches on 5 targets while looking quite natural doing it. I think Harris is the better runner, particularly in short yardage, those 2 check-down drops in week 2, trying turn up the field before securing the ball, were not a good look for him while being unavailable with an injury certainly doesn't help. One more game to make a decision providing Harris can get back on the field.

On balance, I think the D-Line's pass rush has improved over last season with this collection of players, and the run defense has looked pretty decent up until Murray started cranking out 4, 5, 6 yards on every touch. On balance, this is the one unit where I've been pleasantly surprised in this preseason. If the pass pressure was not particularly evident in this week 3 game, chalk it up to Philly's quick-throw offense with open receivers. The Philly QBs (the first 2 anyway) were not forced to much progression reading.

Opinions on the back-up wide receivers should be solidifying.

I think it's becoming evident that White's speed is concentrated in the first 20 yards, not in his long speed; he doesn't show the ability to gain separation on deep throws. Janis is the opposite...he's a long strider with late speed that seems to take CBs by surprise. Comparing splits, White's Pro Day was 4.43/2.55 for the 40 and 20. Janis, on the other hand, was 4.42/2.60. I think the early speed/quickness vs. late/long speed comparison is even more evident on the field. Janis is a stretch-the-field threat; White is not despite that 40 time.

Given the Nelson injury, even without consideration of Cobb's status, both are good bets to make the team given the other candidates don't seem to be making any consistent case for themselves, providing Thompson does not grab a free agent vet at cut downs which would not surprise me at all. Pinkard to the practice squad? Perhaps.

White certainly made his case in this game as a good short route runner. The quickness is evident in his ability to get open in those routes. We've been waiting for him to make a flash play. I'd say the one handed catch on the pass interference call would qualify. I would also note something else about this play that goes to the earlier discussion about "throwing receivers open": Hundley threw that ball before White made his move to the outside. This goes to the credit of the QB while also going to the credit of the receiver's route running.

Janis...what a quandry. I still don't think I've seen him catch a ball where he had to extend. Further, I'm not sure if a ball has been thrown to him where he had not already made his break...maybe the sideline incompletion in week 2 where he couldn't scrape the second foot. I don't think he's trusted in his routes. But I think he will draw safety help if he can show some short route acumen so he doesn't draw only off coverage, but time is growing short.

I think Barclay showed helpful improvement. He got nicked for a holding call, but I don't recall seeing him getting blown up as in the earlier games. All in all, I think the patchwork line did a credible job in pass blocking given how little game experience working to together they've had. While Hundley's mobility might have made it look better than it was, and a couple of hits were undone with penalties, it was better than one might have expected. And again...the screen game was pretty nifty. Run game? Not so hot...then again, an inexperience line with little time together is not a good recipe for a zone blocking scheme. I don't think a short term injury or two on the O-Line will be a season deal breaker, certainly not in the way the WR situation might be.

We can't overlook some of the other bad things, however, that were not in high focus.

Too many penalties, especially on special teams. The coverage on the long return looks totally discombobulated. Much of this understandable with so many guys being moved in and out of those units to try their hand at it and make a case for a roster spot. I would hope by next week decisions will have been made on who will be doing what so the "starting" units get one full game together under their belts.

I was willing to give Masthay a pass on last season since the blocking in front of him was so sketchy. But he's had pretty good protection this preseason. He's always had that long drop to the foot...being a little off on timing/mechanics makes for more misses with that style. Since he's a reliable holder, it may be just one of those things on the negative side of the scale that will just have to be "live with it" situation.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There is one argument for "relaxing":

It was pretty evident Philly game planned for the Packers. The Packers, on the other hand, are of a mind to experiment in these games, evaluating personnel in different roles and combinations.

There is a counter argument against "relaxing":

That was the Packers veteran first-team defense out there getting sliced and diced.

I hope to the heavens that Capers did not actually game plan the opponent here. Otherwise, he's in a lot of trouble.

 

[TJV]

Regarding WRs 3-5, Dougherty makes the argument the Packers should stay in house. He notes Jones' ypc stat as evidence he wouldn't be the answer. The counter argument may be how much difference the QB makes but I have spent no time evaluating Jones' 2014 season. And he notes neither Jones nor Boykin may be available.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...15/08/30/packers-stay-house-wr-help/71412150/
BTW, the one thing I really don't understand is why White's 40 time doesn't seem to translate onto the field at all. Assuming Cobb will be OK, I see the WRs in order: Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis, and White.

Regarding the STs, McCarthy probably isn't regretting promoting Zook to STC rather than hiring one of the (two I believe) established STCs available. But even at this early date, I am.

 

[JK64]

The first string defense was total garbage in this game. Special teams was one penalty after another and not any better than the ST Slocum was coaching. Really a disappointment. MM and the Packers were so worried about injuries that they played soft. This team definitely needs an attitude change.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

I think there are other positives besides Hundley. Here are a couple.

The Packers screen passing game against Philly, even with the backups at O-Line, was better than we've seen in many a moon. While Philly was giving up the screen to defend elsewhere, the execution was impressive. Hundley's timing, position and touch on those throws was outstanding. If Rodgers has one weakness in his game, it's these kinds of throws (though he's improved over the last couple of years), which may account for why Philly was giving it away...not much Packer tape showing a successful screen game.

In the same vein, Neal may have solidified the #3 running back spot with his receiving performance in this game...5 catches on 5 targets while looking quite natural doing it. I think Harris is the better runner, particularly in short yardage, those 2 check-down drops in week 2, trying turn up the field before securing the ball, were not a good look for him while being unavailable with an injury certainly doesn't help. One more game to make a decision providing Harris can get back on the field.

On balance, I think the D-Line's pass rush has improved over last season with this collection of players, and the run defense has looked pretty decent up until Murray started cranking out 4, 5, 6 yards on every touch. On balance, this is the one unit where I've been pleasantly surprised in this preseason. If the pass pressure was not particularly evident in this week 3 game, chalk it up to Philly's quick-throw offense with open receivers. The Philly QBs (the first 2 anyway) were not forced to much progression reading.

Opinions on the back-up wide receivers should be solidifying.

I think it's becoming evident that White's speed is concentrated in the first 20 yards, not in his long speed; he doesn't show the ability to gain separation on deep throws. Janis is the opposite...he's a long strider with late speed that seems to take CBs by surprise. Comparing splits, White's Pro Day was 4.43/2.55 for the 40 and 20. Janis, on the other hand, was 4.42/2.60. I think the early speed/quickness vs. late/long speed comparison is even more evident on the field. Janis is a stretch-the-field threat; White is not despite that 40 time.

Given the Nelson injury, even without consideration of Cobb's status, both are good bets to make the team given the other candidates don't seem to be making any consistent case for themselves, providing Thompson does not grab a free agent vet at cut downs which would not surprise me at all. Pinkard to the practice squad? Perhaps.

White certainly made his case in this game as a good short route runner. The quickness is evident in his ability to get open in those routes. We've been waiting for him to make a flash play. I'd say the one handed catch on the pass interference call would qualify. I would also note something else about this play that goes to the earlier discussion about "throwing receivers open": Hundley threw that ball before White made his move to the outside. This goes to the credit of the QB while also going to the credit of the receiver's route running.

Janis...what a quandry. I still don't think I've seen him catch a ball where he had to extend. Further, I'm not sure if a ball has been thrown to him where he had not already made his break...maybe the sideline incompletion in week 2 where he couldn't scrape the second foot. I don't think he's trusted in his routes. But I think he will draw safety help if he can show some short route acumen so he doesn't draw only off coverage, but time is growing short.

I think Barclay showed helpful improvement. He got nicked for a holding call, but I don't recall seeing him getting blown up as in the earlier games. All in all, I think the patchwork line did a credible job in pass blocking given how little game experience working to together they've had. While Hundley's mobility might have made it look better than it was, and a couple of hits were undone with penalties, it was better than one might have expected. And again...the screen game was pretty nifty. Run game? Not so hot...then again, an inexperience line with little time together is not a good recipe for a zone blocking scheme. I don't think a short term injury or two on the O-Line will be a season deal breaker, certainly not in the way the WR situation might be.

We can't overlook some of the other bad things, however, that were not in high focus.

Too many penalties, especially on special teams. The coverage on the long return looks totally discombobulated. Much of this understandable with so many guys being moved in and out of those units to try their hand at it and make a case for a roster spot. I would hope by next week decisions will have been made on who will be doing what so the "starting" units get one full game together under their belts.

I was willing to give Masthay a pass on last season since the blocking in front of him was so sketchy. But he's had pretty good protection this preseason. He's always had that long drop to the foot...being a little off on timing/mechanics makes for more misses with that style. Since he's a reliable holder, it may be just one of those things on the negative side of the scale that will just have to be "live with it" situation.

Good summary thanks for taking the time. Good to hear Barclay and White showed signs. Worried about Janis being able to run routs where the ball has to be thrown before he breaks. What gives? Is he just not that smart? His long speed is good but he won't draw much coverage away if he's limited in his routes.

STs play is hopefully a result of new guys moved in and out. I think Janis can contribute on punt coverage. And yeah we'll have to live with Masthay if he is the only reliable holder for Crosby. Beyond me that this is apparently a non-transferable skill.... I would much prefer Tolzien or Hundley learn that.

 

[PackerDNA]

I never get jacked up about preseason results; it's all about evaluation and seeing what the young guys have .
Reading various sites today and they're gushing over how great Sam Bradford is, what a genius Chip Kelly is, and they might as well give the Lombardi to Philly now and be done with it. No sale here.
I do think there are signs of trouble, though, and not based on one preseason game.
- Nelson is a huge loss; not just him as a player- he's one of the best WR's in the game- but how his loss affects the offense as a whole. You have Cobb, Adams, and a bunch of questions marks.
You don't replace Nelson, you replace his production. Who's gonna do that, and fill the role of outside deep threat? Cobb is an undersized slot guy. Adams is still fairly raw. I've read on several sites quotes from coaches and personnel guys who think Janis is just a straight line guy. Montgomery is a rookie; we don't even know what his role will be. The rest are total mysteries, and for me, uninspiring.
-As fans, we often overestimate the talent on our favorite teams. I don't believe the defense is as horrible as it looked last night. I also don't believe they're very good, either. Outside of Matthews- when he plays- and Peppers, there isn't a lot of difference makers or top talent. The secondary is very promising, but right now they're pretty raw. The dline has too many 'just a guy' types. ILB has too many journeymen/career backup caliber players. They won't have to be great, but they'll need to be at least good , especially with the probable downgrade to the teams strength, the passing game.
-Looks like the injury bug is remembering how much it liked the taste of Packer meat. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to get flashbacks to 2013.