Preseason Game 2 Packers at Colts Game Thread

[Heyjoe4]

Hardman's only path to the 53 seems to be as a turner, and depth at WR. He hasn't shown much. Heath is the better choice - but then Nixon and Reed are returning kicks/punts. I do not like that.

 

[Pkrjones]

Is he a LB? How did he get on the Packers? Thanks CC.

5 things to know about Packers LB Kristian Welch

Wisconsin native returns after playing for Green Bay in 2023-24

www.packers.com

 

[Voyageur]

How was Welch acquired - UDFA, FA? Thanks. I don't know anything about the guy.

UDFA. He spent time with the Packers in camp last year. He's from Iola, WI. It makes him a local boy and that plays well with the Packers. He's a linebacker.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Speaking of injuries, Barryn Sorrell has a sprained left MCL, and may be back for the season opener.

 

[OldSchool101]

Hardman's only path to the 53 seems to be as a turner, and depth at WR. He hasn't shown much. Heath is the better choice - but then Nixon and Reed are returning kicks/punts. I do not like that.

I respectfully disagree. Actually I think Hardman has better odds than Heath. Neither are locks but I’d put Hardman at 50% odds making the Roster

I’d put Heath at like 35% and I’m being generous. He’d need to have a world beater Preseason game to flip my choice. Might even get beat out by Julian or Isaiah or Will Sheppard (my favorite) if Mecole is deemed expendable

For me? I just like the veteran presence there at WR along with superior experience at KR/PR. Also last year our drops were a HUGE issue. Hardman is a career 69.0% rec rate at nearly 13 yards per. He’s one of the best hands guys on this Roster. Malik offers less impact (3 Tackles across 130 Teams snaps career) on Teams imo

 

[Voyageur]

I respectfully disagree. Actually I think Hardman has better odds than Heath. Neither are locks but I’d put Hardman at 50% odds making the Roster

I’d put Heath at like 35% and I’m being generous. He’d need to have a world beater Preseason game to flip my choice. Might even get beat out by Julian or Isaiah or Will Sheppard (my favorite) if Mecole is deemed expendable

For me? I just like the veteran presence there at WR along with superior experience at KR/PR. Also last year our drops were a HUGE issue. Hardman is a career 69.0% rec rate at nearly 13 yards per. He’s one of the best hands guys on this Roster. Malik offers less impact (3 Tackles across 130 Teams snaps career) on Teams imo

Those are good arguments as to why Hardman wins the battle. Also, having brought him in as a FA, they must feel they had something there they wanted. It doesn't necessarily show up in camp and could actually be obvious during the season.

If I was to make a guess, I'd say it's the dependability as a receiver based on past performance. He has a solid track record.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I respectfully disagree. Actually I think Hardman has better odds than Heath. Neither are locks but I’d put Hardman at 50% odds making the Roster

I’d put Heath at like 35% and I’m being generous. He’d need to have a world beater Preseason game to flip my choice. Might even get beat out by Julian or Isaiah or Will Sheppard (my favorite) if Mecole is deemed expendable

For me? I just like the veteran presence there at WR along with superior experience at KR/PR. Also last year our drops were a HUGE issue. Hardman is a career 69.0% rec rate at nearly 13 yards per. He’s one of the best hands guys on this Roster. Malik offers less impact (3 Tackles across 130 Teams snaps career) on Teams imo

Neither are locks, and only one, at most, will make the 53.

I won't be surprised if Gluten finds someone he likes better than both after cutdowns. On his best day, Hardman is JAG as a receiver. Other than returning kicks, I just don't see his value. And his camp/PS at returning hasn't been good. Pass.

 

[Heyjoe4]

5 things to know about Packers LB Kristian Welch

Wisconsin native returns after playing for Green Bay in 2023-24

www.packers.com

Thanks Pkr, exactly what I was looking for.

He's been around a while and has been on the PS and has done well on STs and he has history with RB. Even so, I don't see him playing for GB in September. Or after he clears waivers, maybe a return to the PS.

It seems like the biggest thing he has going for him is that he's from WI. That's not enough imo.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Interesting perspective on his running skills. Something we should think about. It's a 3 QB progression. If you go to Willis from Love, the offense changes. LeFleur mentioned that himself. Now, with a 3rd QB what do you do? You need to go to the Love offense, the Willis offense or design a 3rd offense. I think designing a 3rd is a recipe for disaster.

So, which QB, Clifford or Elgersma could run the offense designed for Love or Willis, if he was required to play? Personally, I see Clifford capable of running the offense designed for Willis and would therefore be a better 3rd QB option for the sake of expedience. How the coaching staff sees it could be completely different. We're going to find out on about 10 days.

If you have to go to QB #3, you're in deep trouble. I doubt the coaches spend much time thinking about what they'd do if QB #3 comes into the game since the situation by that time is already a disaster.

 

[Voyageur]

If you have to go to QB #3, you're in deep trouble. I doubt the coaches spend much time thinking about what they'd do if QB #3 comes into the game since the situation by that time is already a disaster.

My approach as a coach was that I wanted the #3 guy to be someone who could run the team the same as the #2 QB so there was continuity. But by and large the #3 is on the practice squad and usually runs most of the opposition offense in practice for the first teamers to see what they can expect in the upcoming game.

Not a lot of time under center with the first unit but getting reps and learning at the same time. It's all important. If it wasn't the wouldn't bother to roster a #3 or keep one on the practice squad.

 

[gopkrs]

Although I'll say I was impressed with the arm of the Canadien. I guess I'll get to see more this week

 

[OldSchool101]

Neither are locks, and only one, at most, will make the 53.

I won't be surprised if Gluten finds someone he likes better than both after cutdowns. On his best day, Hardman is JAG as a receiver. Other than returning kicks, I just don't see his value. And his camp/PS at returning hasn't been good. Pass.

I’ll tell you who I’m intrigued with is Cornelius Johnson. He’s a Big bodied WR who’s pretty fast 1.52 10-yard 4.44 40-yard, with great explosive traits 37” vertical, 127” Broad jump. He’s 6’3” 212lb; 9.9 RAS. He played for Michigan and averaged 575 yards across his last 3 college seasons 2021-2023. He scored 14 TD’s for the Wolverines and was on a team that Won 3 consecutive Conference Championships and 1 National Championship (2023). Urs but like he played slouch competition etc.. He was a consensus #181 best player out of college and in that Top 11-15 best WR’s in his class.

Cornelius is a Redzone threat because he’s excellent at contested catches. Reminds me of a slightly smaller Lazard but with more long speed.
He’s currently logged 4 rec 50 Yards in his first 2 preseason games also. His value (experience) is on Teams but as a blocker, not returner. He had blocking prowess in a Run Heavy scheme and played Teams.

The issue with GB for a depth WR option is when they drafted 2 WR’s it really was the kiss of death for a pair of guys battling at the bottom. Mecole, Heath, Sheppard, Nehor, Johnson.., they are now all a group fighting for likely 1 spot. Mecole had the best Camp, but didn’t do himself a favor with the fumble at NY. Although when you rewatch that play, it was a really strange bounce.. TWICE

 

[Pkrjones]

The 49ers just traded for KC's Skyy Moore as most of their WR's are out injured or suspended. Last week's game Moore had 2 drops & a muffed KO (before returning the next KO for a TD!).

Maybe there's a draft pick in return for Mecole Hardman awaiting Gute?

 

[Thirteen Below]

The 49ers just traded for KC's Skyy Moore as most of their WR's are out injured or suspended. Last week's game Moore had 2 drops & a muffed KO (before returning the next KO for a TD!).

Maybe there's a draft pick in return for Mecole Hardman awaiting Gute?

It was an incredibly weak return, though. Moore was a 2nd round pick in 2022, and KC shipped him off for a swap of late Day 3 picks - Niners get Moore and Kansas City's 7th round pick for their 6th Round pick... in 2027.

This is literally a "bag of Fritos" trade.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is not an attempt to dissuade some pre snap flags or a conduct flags that Belton was awarded. When I rewatched each of Belton snaps the only thing he gave up in contact was 1 player who fell at Malik’s feet (which could be dangerous if they roll up on the QB) and 2 run blocks that he missed.

On the vast majority of snaps across 3.5 Qtrs it was Belton out physical Tyquan Lewis, who’s a 2nd contract Veteran. Belton has an aggressor feel about him and with a bit of nasty. IMO it almost seemed like Lewis became frustrated because Belton is just enormous to contend with and has very good length. On FOUR occasions I caught Lewis cocking Belton’s head back pretty noticeably. Not 1 time was Lewis called for FOUR seperate infractions of hands to the face. In the Facemask Lewis initiated hands to the throat first. Belton got caught but it was Lewis regularly initiating the contact to the head area

One thing is for positive certain. Tyquan Lewis was never able to come anywhere close to running through Belton. He’s a brick wall. Lewis did get a pair of plays where he shot sideways last second and affected a Run play.

 

[Pkrjones]

It was an incredibly weak return, though. Moore was a 2nd round pick in 2022, and KC shipped him off for a swap of late Day 3 picks - Niners get Moore and Kansas City's 7th round pick for their 6th Round pick... in 2027.

This is literally a "bag of Fritos" trade.

Gute thrives with his "bag of Fritos" draft picks (7th rounders):
'25 - OL Wiliams, CB Robinson
'24 - CB King
'23 - CB Valentine
'22 - OT Walker, DT Ford
'19 - LB Summers

 

[Heyjoe4]

I’ll tell you who I’m intrigued with is Cornelius Johnson. He’s a Big bodied WR who’s pretty fast 1.52 10-yard 4.44 40-yard, with great explosive traits 37” vertical, 127” Broad jump. He’s 6’3” 212lb; 9.9 RAS. He played for Michigan and averaged 575 yards across his last 3 college seasons 2021-2023. He scored 14 TD’s for the Wolverines and was on a team that Won 3 consecutive Conference Championships and 1 National Championship (2023). Urs but like he played slouch competition etc.. He was a consensus #181 best player out of college and in that Top 11-15 best WR’s in his class.

Cornelius is a Redzone threat because he’s excellent at contested catches. Reminds me of a slightly smaller Lazard but with more long speed.
He’s currently logged 4 rec 50 Yards in his first 2 preseason games also. His value (experience) is on Teams but as a blocker, not returner. He had blocking prowess in a Run Heavy scheme and played Teams.

The issue with GB for a depth WR option is when they drafted 2 WR’s it really was the kiss of death for a pair of guys battling at the bottom. Mecole, Heath, Sheppard, Nehor, Johnson.., they are now all a group fighting for likely 1 spot. Mecole had the best Camp, but didn’t do himself a favor with the fumble at NY. Although when you rewatch that play, it was a really strange bounce.. TWICE

Re: Johnson - Top 11-15 WRs in his draft class? Wow. Which round was he drafted, and which team took him?

 

[OldSchool101]

Re: Johnson - Top 11-15 WRs in his draft class? Wow. Which round was he drafted, and which team took him?

My mistake though Joe, he was more in that Top 21-30 WR’s ranking coming into the NFL. The San Diego Chargers Drafted him back of RD7. His projection pre draft was more splitting RD5/RD6 consensus area (#181)

Walter has been a pretty reliable source imo. This was their take.

28. Michigan image Cornelius Johnson, WR, Michigan
Height: 6-2. Weight: 212.
40 Time: 4.44.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
4/22/24: Johnson recorded 47 receptions in 2023 for 604 yards and a touchdown.

9/2/23: In 2022, Johnson turned 32 receptions into for 499 yards and six touchdowns. He was a solid receiver for Michigan, but will need to show more mismatch potential to rise as a prospect for the 2024 NFL Draft.

Imo. He’s perfect for a WR in a zone Running scheme in that he’s known to be an above average blocker. Reminds me of a slightly smaller Allen Lazard. He’s not going to WOW you so to speak, but there’s a reason JJ MCCarthy regularly went his way in 2023. So far in his 2nd season he’s showing some untapped potential in Preseason. I want to say he’s our current Preseason yards leader as far as at WR? He’s a savvy player and he’s where he’s supposed to be when you need him.

 

[OldSchool101]

Btw. On that above post regarding Belton. His primary opponent (Tyquan Lewis) Colts DE, Lewis finished with
0 tackles
O sacks
O PD
0 pressures
0 QB hits

 

[milani]

Hardman's only path to the 53 seems to be as a turner, and depth at WR. He hasn't shown much. Heath is the better choice - but then Nixon and Reed are returning kicks/punts. I do not like that.

What you have to remember about the Packers is that they are a very injury prone team historically. Look at their numbers over the years. Just because someone does not make the cut does not mean that they are through in GB. On September 6 they maybe unemployed. By September 13 the phone could be ringing.

 

[OldSchool101]

What you have to remember about the Packers is that they are a very injury prone team historically. Look at their numbers over the years. Just because someone does not make the cut does not mean that they are through in GB. On September 6 they maybe unemployed. By September 13 the phone could be ringing.

Plus I doubt our Staff is cutting a player over 1 Gaff on a Preseason PR, 1st Half of 1st game. Otherwise 1/4 of our team is gone. Hardman doesn’t look washed up to me and that would really be his only concern after not being utilized much for 1 season. He looks hungry. He just caught 2 passes last week and would be in contention for a Top 5 best Camp Award. The kid might not have lived up to his 2nd Rd grade, but that’s probably 2/3 of all 2nd Rounders.
If it was 2023 I’d rather go with a young player who’s a project with upside.
Gotta go with the hot hand in Roster cutdowns. You can stash Will Shepard etc and it’s unlikely he or many young guys we have will be signed onto an active roster imo.

This is 2025 we’re past all the rebuild business and I seriously think we can compete for this Division lead and having all young players isn’t wise imo. Keep at least 1 player in each Room that brings experience. Also a guy with high echelon game experience. It doesn’t get better than catching the game winning SB catch.

This is all my opinion obviously coach might totally disagree, but I’m keeping my experience at PR and a guy who is near 70% career catch rate. No more training wheels #18 just dropped a pass today hit him in the hands. Can’t be ignoring it anymore

 

[Thirteen Below]

This is all my opinion obviously coach might totally disagree, but I’m keeping my experience at PR and a guy who is near 70% career catch rate. No more training wheels #18 just dropped a pass today hit him in the hands. Can’t be ignoring it anymore

The team just seems to love Heath, though. They always seem to be looking for new ways to keep him.

He and Hardman have a lot riding on this last pre-season game. Either one could make or break their chances with a really good or really bad game.

 

[OldSchool101]

What you have to remember about the Packers is that they are a very injury prone team historically. Look at their numbers over the years. Just because someone does not make the cut does not mean that they are through in GB. On September 6 they maybe unemployed. By September 13 the phone could be ringing.

Nailed that.
In particular this WR group, who just has seen its share of injuries in recent years. Right now we’ve got Watson, Reed, Savion, Doubs and Hardman all missing time last year or already this year. While I understand some of its precautionary, Its also likely not ideal this close to regular season. At any moment we could have 2 or 3 WR’s miss a game. We probably only have 6 or 7 WR’s that are legit healthy in real time… to the point they could suit up Saturday.
I think we go with Watson on PUP and our customary 6 WR on the 53 Man. Possibly 1-2 WR go to PS. So outside of Watson there’s 8 potential Slots and only 5 WR are locks if we estimate Wicks in that. That leaves 1 Roster spot and 1-2 PS spots to fill.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Chargers Drafted him back of RD7. His projection pre draft was more splitting RD5/RD6

Thanks. It will be interesting to see if he makes the Charger's 53. If the Packers release Hardman and Heath maybe they take a look at him if he is waived.

My mistake though Joe, he was more in that Top 21-30 WR’s ranking coming into the NFL. The San Diego Chargers Drafted him back of RD7. His projection pre draft was more splitting RD5/RD6 consensus area (#181)

Walter has been a pretty reliable source imo. This was their take.

28. Michigan image Cornelius Johnson, WR, Michigan
Height: 6-2. Weight: 212.
40 Time: 4.44.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
4/22/24: Johnson recorded 47 receptions in 2023 for 604 yards and a touchdown.

9/2/23: In 2022, Johnson turned 32 receptions into for 499 yards and six touchdowns. He was a solid receiver for Michigan, but will need to show more mismatch potential to rise as a prospect for the 2024 NFL Draft.

Imo. He’s perfect for a WR in a zone Running scheme in that he’s known to be an above average blocker. Reminds me of a slightly smaller Allen Lazard. He’s not going to WOW you so to speak, but there’s a reason JJ MCCarthy regularly went his way in 2023. So far in his 2nd season he’s showing some untapped potential in Preseason. I want to say he’s our current Preseason yards leader as far as at WR? He’s a savvy player and he’s where he’s supposed to be when you need him.

Thanks for the update OS, it's NBD. One of the reasons I think Heath will make the 53 is his value as a blocking WR, as well as a viable but little used WR. Johnson sounds like that kind of guy, but Heath has the benefit of being with the Packers.

I still think the final cutdown at WR is between Hardman and Heath. We'll find out next Tuesday. Both of them have desirable attributes. While I think Heath gets the nod, Hardman would be valuable as a PR, KR - sparing Reed and Nixon. It's a coin-toss decision.

 

[OldSchool101]

Thanks. It will be interesting to see if he makes the Charger's 53. If the Packers release Hardman and Heath maybe they take a look at him if he is waived.

Thanks for the update OS, it's NBD. One of the reasons I think Heath will make the 53 is his value as a blocking WR, as well as a viable but little used WR. Johnson sounds like that kind of guy, but Heath has the benefit of being with the Packers.

I still think the final cutdown at WR is between Hardman and Heath. We'll find out next Tuesday. Both of them have desirable attributes. While I think Heath gets the nod, Hardman would be valuable as a PR, KR - sparing Reed and Nixon. It's a coin-toss decision.

Oh I agree. There’s no clear cut front runner at what I’d call WR6 or Practice Squad signing. Sure, each have had moments of highlight reels, but high level consistency is what the goal is.

Now trust me I’m fully aware that our outside, low level FA signings are not as “popular” as our own homegrown guys. Although you’ve probably recognized my stubbornness doesn’t align with the popular choices. I’d rather be different and wrong than popular and right (not directed at you just a general opinion I have) ANYONE can take the easy path of blending in and playing it safe.

If we had to be honest with ourselves, Mecole Hardman since Camp started is a clear front runner. The rest of the guys have dabbled a nice play or three. Some look intriguing. Heath just dropped a perfectly thrown ball yesterday and I saw it with my own eyes. Might not seem like a Hardman fumble, but that was MUCH easier to catch than a PR with a couple of bad hops. It’s too late in the season to be dropping easy 5 yard passes. Heck I can go call up J'mon Moore if that’s acceptable.